Me or My Sugar Mamas?

[Kano]

I've skied them five times now, and I do like them a LOT, really! I have gotten tired of the falls, though. None have been serious, and I really don't mind the tip-overs in powder. They're kind of fun, even, you know? When I'm on a firm, groomed run, though, and tumble, well, that's no fun, and the aches the next day, well, they're less fun, and they really mess with my head!

I'm thinking a little extra hard about what I'm doing this year -- unless it's just the beginning of the season, y'know? My Sugar Mamas "punish" back seat skiing, and reward better form for the most part.

I am having a problem, though: just when I think I'm doing everything right, the tails seem to refuse to let go on a turn. DH doesn't watch real carefully, and he's asking "what happened" when he sees I've fallen again. I really haven't been able to say fo sure, particularly about the higher speed tumbles.

So I paid extra attention after the one that sent me scrambling back to the "beginner runs" the other day, hoping I could figure out what I might be doing.

Maybe it's of interest that I am always falling or "stumbling" and losing balance when turning right? On the "stumbles," it feels to me like the tail of the right ski is catching in the snow. I'm not noticing this so much on the left ski, and I'm not noticing the "tripping" sensation on left turns. Does this make any sort of sense to anyone?

While in talking with the boot guy on Wednnesday (DH is in the fitting process), I asked about this situation. One of the things he asked is if I've swapped feet (which ski is on which foot) and I can't say I've really paid attention to that, but probably not. He said "detuning" might be the solution. Not knowing beans about this "detuning" stuff, I read a little bit online, and it the reasoning for doing it makes sense. It sounds like this is essentially a "do it yourself" thing -- what do I need to know about "detuning" and what tools do I need to experiment with this?

I'm not ruling out taking a lesson to have someone who knows what to look for watch me and help fix something I might be doing too -- the spooky thing that comes with a 50 yard tumble down a run is eroding my newfound confidence too much, sending me back to the really easy runs, and I've learned not to like those so well anymore, aside from warming up in the morning. (way too many danged moving obstacles!)

So, input please?

Karen in Boise

 

[volklgirl]

My immediate reaction to your situation was that you have a burr on one of your skis. Apparently, this was your tech's thought too, thus the question about "swapping" skis.

If you do have edge problems, all you should need to fix it is a "gummi stone", available for about $5 at any ski shop.

Take one of your skis and set it base up. GENTLY grasp the edges between your thumb and finger (thumb on one edge, index finger across the ski, on the other edge), then again GENTLY slide your hand down the ski, feeling for any rough, scratchy, or excessively "sharp" areas. If you aren't very gentle when you do this, you CAN cut your fingers! Mark these areas with a Sharpie or other permanent marker on the edge, so you can find them later. Then, take your gummi stone and lay it flat against the base edge at one of your marked areas and polish the base edge with a back and forth scrubbing motion and light pressure. Do this for the side edge as well. Check your edges again to see if the roughness is gone. If not, set your gummi stone on the tip of the edge at a 45 deg and scrub again very lightly. Your edges should now be smooth and shiny. Do this at each of your marks until both your skis' edges are completely smooth.

Detuning is simply using a coarse gummi stone, Arkansas stone, or diamond stone at a 45 deg angle to round off the edge to make edge release easier. This is usually done at the contact points of the tip and tail.

Check the Gearipedia care and tuning thread for more detailed instructions and pictures.

After that, I'd have my boot alignment checked, then maybe a lesson.

 

[Robyn]

Funny, while I was reading your description of what was happening I too was thinking you need to detune and check for burrs. Your description of the tails not letting go is what led me there. And it may not just be a burr but the edges being too sharp for you to handle.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Told DH about this, and he pulled out his new skis to show me how he detuned the very tips and tails, right to the point of contact when skis are together. Easily done w/file. At 45 degree angle, he says. Don't know much about it, but it is something he has routinely done (whether this is a condoned practice or not) with every ski that's ever been ours. Works for us.

 

[volklgirl]

Detuning is a very individual thing. Some people want/need it, some don't. Personally, I want my skis to hook up from the very moment I tip them on edge, so no detuning for me. It's pretty normal for the tip and tails to be detuned on intermediate or beginner skis, though, to make them easier to skid.

Another thing I forgot to have you check.....
With the skis sitting base up, use a straight edge (an old ruler with the metal edge, a credit card, anything straight and flat) to make sure your bases are flat. Place the straight edge across the base of the ski and check to see if there's any spots along the length of the ski where you can see under the straight edge. If you see light under the straight edge in the middle of the ski base, that means you skis are "edge high" at that point, and this, too, could be the problem. If that's the case, they will need to be ground at a shop.

 

[Severine]

I'm glad you brought this up! I've had a few instances of my tail not releasing on one of my skis but figured it was just my lack of skill that caused it. I'll have to check out my edges and bases. Thanks for the tips!

 

[PowDiva85]

my initial reaction is that a "detune" is probably a good first step. when skis come from the factory they are milled from tip to tail at (usually) a 1 degree base bevel. When most ski shops mount your skis they mount the bindings and some will "detune" certain portions of the ski, usually the tip. When they detune they take a file and basically file off the edge that was ground in by the factory. Now that makes the ski dull and so it doesnt hook up too much. At our shop we dont detune we do a graduated bevel to the tip so that its duller at the tip but sharper as you get closer to the foot which gives you better performance and the only part we totally file off is the very tip that doesnt touch the snow and that is so you dont scratch your top sheets when your tips cross and normally we dont do anything to the tail except file off the very end if its a twin, again to help protect the top sheets. However, lately we have been experimenting with beveling the tails of some of our skis with more aggressive side cut (in this case the rossi voodoo 80). Not sure where your sugar mammas are but probably is the case from how it sounds like they ski. I would not recommend detuning I would recommend doing a graduated bevel to the tail. I skied on the voodoos with the tail detuned and they were horrible..its like you cut the last 10cms of the ski off so unless the skis are a bit long for you i dont recommend just filing down the edges

 

[Kano]

Detuning is a very individual thing. Some people want/need it, some don't. Personally, I want my skis to hook up from the very moment I tip them on edge, so no detuning for me. It's pretty normal for the tip and tails to be detuned on intermediate or beginner skis, though, to make them easier to skid.

Volklgirl -- you've sent some great info here, and I'm thrilled with it! (DH will be too: he's finally tried his new skis today, after skiing with the new boots for a week and deciding that he does indeed like them well enough to have all skis "fitted" to them. He found himself with the same situation several times. Managed to avoid falling, fortunately)

Like you mention, I have NO problem with the edges grabbing the snow as soon as I tip them, but DANG, when the "now inside" edge doesn't seem to let go on the next turn....

Today was better. Can't say if I managed to get the skis transposed on my feet (I put a sticker on one tonight -- we kept them "in order" so I could know which one was on the right foot today) or if it was because now I seem to be developing the bad habit of lifting that ski out of the snow as I turn -- just the right one, so it MUST be a right side thing only -- not a good thing, but at least I stayed "black side down" on my skis today!

Karen in Boise

 

[volklgirl]

Woo Hoo! A breakthough!!

If your skis check out, try to get a lesson and have the instructor really watch for that edge lock. If you're right handed/footed, you may just be having an issue with getting that right knee moving into the upcoming right turn. This can get that old-turn inside edge locked up on pretty quickly. Everyone has a strong and a weak side, and you may need to really concentrate to get that weak leg to obey you.

 

[Kano]

Well, as started this thread with the statement that I really do like them, I gotta say, I love them now!

I got one of these gummi stone thingies, and even though I didn't find any burrs -- though early season HAS done a number on the tune of them and it's about time to take them in for maintenance! -- I did give the tail edges a little bit of a rub down before using them today. The only spooky experiences were of my own doing, and I learned fast from them!

So far, I've had a great time on these skis in powder -- fresh and shoved around, bump experiments, groomed runs of the lovely soft sort, and today on hard pack with a bit of dust on top -- even okay on a couple of icy patches I found while screaming down a black diamond run with DH!

And, oh yeah: cat tracks.

I think my Sugar Mamas are going to prove to be a terrific all around ski! To think I based my ski swap purchase solely on one review thread I saw here and remembered months later. Thanks Snocat!

Karen in Boise

 

[volklgirl]

Oooh, what great news!!

 

[Sheena]

Excellent!