Keeping edges sharp???

[CMCM]

I have a setup to wax my own skis and feel comfortable doing that, but I'm reluctant to do the big edge maintenance thing, especially if the edges need a lot of fixing.

However, I thought I read here that it might be a good idea to have the very finest file to "touch up" edges now and then. What do you all think about that? Is this even necessary?

And which file exactly would I need....and don't you also need some sort of edge guide tool to hold the file?

 

[veggielasagna]

Personally sharp edges are essential...I can tell if they are not sharp enough after one run. I guess it would depend on skiing style somewhat..whether your on your edges constantly (ok not so good all the time) or if your just cruising around on greens...are you tackling steeper stuff? Skidding? Etc. Etc. But for carving its nice to have a clean, smooth sharp edge to get the true potential out of the ski. Unless your going in the glades or back country its pretty easy to do maintenance yourself. Once you start scraping rocks though...sometimes it just makes sense to go to a shop where they can use a machine unless its just a small spot. For what you want to do, dedicated angle guides are likely not necessary. I would suggest:
https://www.slidewright.com/proddetail.php?prod=T4B2002TX
https://www.slidewright.com/proddetail.php?prod=MP011
https://www.slidewright.com/proddetail.php?prod=MP0010

I use the razor tool myself, it's one of the better ones on the market according to the bears at Epic. I don't have those same exact diamond stones or gummi, but it all serves the same purpose. I personally use a 600 grit diamond and a 200 grit then the gummi stone very lightly to remove any potential burrs. If you don't want to spring for both diamonds, go with the 600 grit, definitely sufficient for maintenance, then run the gummi over your edge. The razor also comes with a great little file. Use a mixture of alcohol+water on the diamond stones...they cut easier that way. In a pinch melted snow or water will do as well. Generally angles are 1 degree base and 2 degree side in the East (not sure where you ski). It varies by manufacturer...Don't worry about your base edges too much. If they get rough run a gummi and or diamond down them. Have the shop set them once or twice a season. Slidewright's a good site, good guy over on Epic

-veggielasagna

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Here's a great site with a lot of good information and great products. Have been using them for 30+ years.
https://www.tognar.com/

 

[veggielasagna]

Agreed, personally I would get the edge tool from slidewright and the DMT diamond stones (med. and fine)+gummi from tognar FWIW if I was buying online. I'm lucky enough to have Reliable Racing 10 minutes away : )

-veggielasagna

 

[volklgirl]

If you're not actually sharpening your own edges, all you really need is a diamond stone and a gummi stone.

The diamond stone is use to gently take care of minor edge damage, and the gummi is used to polish the edges and get rid of any burrs. If you check and touch up those edges every day, you'll need to send them in for sharpening (or do it yourself) a lot less often.

Sharpening your own is actually pretty easy and can be done really quickly if done often.

I have a basic guide for tuning HERE.

 

[CMCM]

Great information....but.....I'm still unclear what minimal items to get. I certainly don't want to get into changing the bevel and all that....what I want to do is work with the bevel as it is on my new skis...just "touch it up" to do whatever is necessary to sharpen in a restorative way (but nothing at all major). I'm thinking I would need a guide of some sort, a very fine diamond file, the gummy thing. Then just going with the original angle, do a careful, slight sharpening. Does this sound do-able? Advisable?

Of course, anything major I'd take them to a ski shop where they really know what they're doing. I was just thinking that I could perhaps maintain the sharpness a bit myself without worrying about messing anything up......but I don't want to turn the edges maintenance into a big production.

 

[Calgal]

I used to get my skis tuned at a shop, but after too many crummy edge sharpens and waxings, I decided to try it on my own. I took a course locally, and learned the basics of tuning edges, hot waxing, and even base repair. It is not rocket science and yes.....YOU are totally capable of doing this yourself. You will do a better job than a guy rushing through piles of skis that need to be done that day at a local shop. I sharpened my edges (base bevel 1degree, side bevel 2 degrees -great for recreational skiing) and did a hot wax. I even combined two different waxes for the temperatures that I would be skiing today and I actually guessed right....my skis were FAST today!!
The Tognar website has a wealth of info and great customer service.
Do some research and don't be afraid !!

 

[Calgal]

I was just thinking that I could perhaps maintain the sharpness a bit myself without worrying about messing anything up......but I don't want to turn the edges maintenance into a big production.[/QUOTE]

You aren't going to mess anything up.
Try the technique out first on an old pair of skis to get used to the motion and how the files etc work and then move on to your skis !!

My quoting skills need work!

 

[CMCM]

Who offered a course in edges etc? A ski shop? I've never noticed anything like that....

Waxing is easy.....I got a table, iron, all the necessary stuff and I must say I got very addicted to having newly waxed skis. But the ski shops want to scare you into not doing much with edges....guess they think they'll lose too much business!

 

[veggielasagna]

Great information....but.....I'm still unclear what minimal items to get.

Check out the links in my original post...that's all you need. The Razor tool, a 600 grit (medium) diamond stone and a gummi stone. The razor tool is your "guide."

-veggielasagna

 

[Calgal]

The course I took was offered at a post secondary school here. For me it is so much more affordable to do tuning a waxing myself, and the work is much more consistent.
If you like sharp edges, your ski shop will scare you into not doing it yourself. I was in a local shop one day for a binding adjust on some new skis, and the owner asked me if I needed them tuned.....and I told him that I do that myself. He just gave me one of those smiles that guys give when they just know that a woman can't do something like that !!
I started out by buying the basic stuff to get started. I am now ready to get into more specific things like side and base edge bevel guides with the longer files.
Volklgirl's tuning guide is excellent! So is the advice and links that others have given in this thread.

 

[CMCM]

Check out the links in my original post...that's all you need. The Razor tool, a 600 grit (medium) diamond stone and a gummi stone. The razor tool is your "guide."

-veggielasagna

So does the Razor tool presume a 0% bevel......you wouldn't really be changing the angles, right? Just sharpening what is already established? I guess my reluctance comes from not wanted to change an angle on the bevel accidentally....since I have no idea which angle it should be other than the original one anyway.

 

[Calgal]

I have a Razor tool. It will allow you to do a 0 degree sharpening.
A ski with a small degree of bevel on the base edge is easier to turn, which means less energy for you to have more fun!!

 

[ski diva]

Never let it be said that the stuff we talk about on the forum doesn't get attention!

Here's an email that was sent to me from Terry Ackerman of Slidewright, in response to the posts on this thread:

Hi all,
I hope you had and still are having a great season.

I was checking out the SkiDiva forum and was reading this thread which included a Razor question:

"So does the Razor tool presume a 0% bevel......you wouldn't really be changing the angles, right? Just sharpening what is already established? I guess my reluctance comes from not wanted to change an angle on the bevel accidentally....since I have no idea which angle it should be other than the original one anyway."

The various lengths of the Razor pegs can be used to match existing side and base edge angles. Using the Magic Marker or Sharpie on edge method, with a fine stone works easily to set the guide to match by trying different bevel angles. If the thin layer of ink is taken off evenly, it's a match. If more one side or the other, you'll know which way to adjust until you get a match with the guide and your current bevel angle. Record this information for future reference. The razor is very accurate and can be used as a measuring device in this manner. Same with the Xact.

Especially for newer tuners, all maintenance tasks should be focused on the side edge, not the base. There is a tendency to over bevel the base edge which will dramatically affect the ski's performance. To fix an over beveled base edge will require taking down the base by a shop grind or other means. Then the edge geometry will then be able to be reestablished.

FYI, we have a DIY Tuning, Waxing & Base Repair Blog going which can address many questions and will continually be updated. There are a couple entries on Measuring Bevel Angles and descriptions of the Razor & Xact tools, among others. There is also an FAQ page.

Additionally, we are happy to respond to generic or product related questions either indirectly or directly. Please let us know if you have questions as this is what we are all about.

And if you are not aware, here is an article in Women's Adventure Magazine, 'Yes, you can':

Thanks, Terry!

 

[volklgirl]

Terry at Slidewright

I've dealt with Terry while learning how to do base weld repairs rather than candle drip repairs. He has a wealth of knowledge and tons of enthusiasm. I loved interacting with him and will seek his advice again next time I have a question. He even sent us some extra chunks of wax with our welding kit!

 

[sibhusky]

I've got one of the Beast base bevel guides and I really don't like it. I feel it flexes too much and that I may be over-beveling. Next time my wallet has more $ in it, I think I'm going with this, or, if I'm really feeling flush, this. I have this for my side bevel, but I didn't pay anywhere near as much as it is here. (Might have gotten in from Amazon, all I know is, my Epic discount doesn't always mean SlideWright is the best place to get it.) I REALLY LIKE the side bevel. I also have this one, which can change angles, but I don't like it quite as much because it requires a coin to open up the file holder AND it doesn't hold my Arkansas stone because that stone is too thick.

As for diamond stones, I got a Moonflex, but even though it's great for not loading, the fact that there is plastic AROUND the file means that when I put it in the guide, I have to be careful to position it so that actual grit hits the edge. With the cheaper DMT stones, the grit is all the way across the surface and I don't have that problem. I have five stones I use altogether, in successively finer grits, ending with the Arkansas stone.

I actually enjoy doing my edges more than waxing, because of the SCRAPING issue when you wax. I do my edges every time I wax, usually not really finding anything that needs work, but running the diamond stones along just in case.

 

[volklgirl]

Wow, that's a lot of stuff.

First I use an Arkansas stone to grind down any case hardened areas (from hitting rcks) then I use my "SkiLit" multi edger that does both base and side edges and is adjustable from 0-3 deg for both. After that I use a gummi to polish and debur.....done.

If I don't need to file, I use the Arkansas stone then a diamond stone by hand then the gummi......done.

 

[Daria]

What great information thanks!!! I tend to like my edges sharper than what the local shop recommends. Looks like a good off season project for learning all of this.

 

[sibhusky]

volklgirl, I always thought my Arkansas stone was a finer grit than my diamond. It's not marked for its grit, I found it in my parents' house when we were disposing of its contents, but when I looked up Arkansas stones on Tognar or wherever, all the grits were finer than the diamonds. It FEELS smooth, but my fingers can't tell the difference between it and my finest diamond stone. What do you know about them?

 

[volklgirl]

sibhusky-
Not a lot. I just know the actual stone is better for softening the hardened areas. Mine has 2 different grits....coarse on one side, fine on the other. My diamond stone is very fine and is used only for polishing.

That might be an excellent question for Terry A?