How did you educate yourself on gear choices?

[Sheena]

Hopefully I can explain this well. I want to gain more knowledge of the different ski technology and construction, and what is really good for me. Also, when demoing skis, what do you look for and think about? How would you describe things like dampness, snappiness of a ski? I see these terms in write ups in reviews, but I guess I am not sure what it all really means, and what types of feelings I should pay attention to when I do demo skis.

Sorry, this is a bit rambling, and I hope it makes sense!

 

[Jilly]

Sheena I think its a good discussion. First I read anything and everything I can get my hands on for equipment. I'm also lucky that a friend owns a shop and I get in on the PK's for the staff. (I now know more about snowboards than I care too, but the give-aways are good!) At the PK's the reps actually go into the ski construction and what makes different models different. It's not all about the shape numbers. Different manfacturers use different materials to make the up the core of the ski. Sometimes the manufacturers literature will tell you the core construction. I have the consumer books from Rossi and Atomic. They tell you the core construction, the top sheet, base material etc.
Understanding what it means to you is another issue. That's where the demo comes in. My Z5's have the same shape numbers as the Z9. The Z9 has a top sheet of titanium. It makes the ski stiffer and I can't bend it. The Z5 uses Carbon instead and it works great for me.
So as to what to demo, think about where you ski the most, how you ski, type of turns, bumps, park??
As for the terms - any of the "test" issues of the magazines should have that info. But I've said enough, I'll let others in on this.

 

[NannyMin]

Hopefully I can explain this well. I want to gain more knowledge of the different ski technology and construction, and what is really good for me. Also, when demoing skis, what do you look for and think about? How would you describe things like dampness, snappiness of a ski? I see these terms in write ups in reviews, but I guess I am not sure what it all really means, and what types of feelings I should pay attention to when I do demo skis.

Sorry, this is a bit rambling, and I hope it makes sense!

Great question Sheena! Unfortunately, I'm at about the same point as you are in the learning curve. I'm very keen to see what the responses are to this post.

 

[Native Vail Gal]

I have a couple of thoughts on this. I am a hands on gal! I would recommend the following:

1) Find a ski shop with a GREAT reputation for catering to the female skiier. Definitely listen to the female reps and sales people on ski differences, rather than the males. They know about the technology for women and can ask you the right questions and lead you in the correct direction for your ability, height and weight.

2) Go to a demo days! Nothing like trying them on and giving them a whirl. Going from straight skis to the shaped skis was a HUGE eye-opener for me! 33 years on one type of technology and changing to another was HUGE!

3) Ask the DIVAS! I have learned so much from reading the posts here. What I would say, though.....let people know that you need definitions. Be honest and ask for "the kindergarten" version if you need it! Some of the technological posts can be overwhelming while you are learning....but are very helpful after you learn to know more and more about what you are looking for!

GREAT POST! Good Luck! :D

 

[Sheena]

Thanks for the input so far! What kind of things do you look for when you demo? I demoed a few skis last year, the Volkl Attiva AC3, the Atomic B5, and the Head iM 88. I got the Heads because I felt the most balanced and stable on them, plus I could tear through crud and powder and feel in control. However, if I were to write up a review, I would not be able to tell someone after I skied them if they were "snappy" or "damp" or if I felt the tails were too stiff or the tips to soft, etc.

I was wondering if it is just simply becoming a better skier, or if there are tips to make one more aware of what the ski is doing, etc.

 

[volklgirl]

How to do a successful demo day:

1. Find a set of runs you are comfortable with that includes a flat section, a steep section, some crud, some ice, some groomed....anything you think you'll encounter on a regular basis (or whatever conditions you're buying a specialty ski for). Take each ski on the same run routine and at the same speeds for an accurate comparison between models.

2. On a smooth section, try riding the ski with your weight forward, centered, and back to see how it will react to unexpected weight changes. Which is it most comfortable with? If your weight is forward and the front of the ski just smushes out from underneath you, the tip is too soft. If it zips into turns without you, it's either too stiff in the tip, or has too much sidecut for you. With your weight back, does it just go straight? The tail's too stiff. Skids out? Too soft. Also try a progression from smeared, skidded turns to seriously edged, purely carved turns....which type of turn does it feel most comfortable in? If it tends to skip out of turns when edged, it's too soft for you. If it balks during the progression, it's probably too stiff.

A ski that's "snappy" or "lively" will come alive under your feet. It will want to turn. If you pressure it, it will "snap" out of the turn (a seriously scary feeling the first time) and want to roll immediately into the next turn. Think Porsche.

A ski that's "damp" will motor smoothly into and out of turns. It will feel like driving a Cadillac, smooth and mellow.

A "powerful" ski may also feel "damp" or "snappy", think Hummer or Corvette.

All of these things you'll just know when you feel them the first time. Most people will tell you they're not a good enough skier to know the difference between skis. All that says to me is they've never tried multiple pairs of skis on the same day. You WILL know the difference. It doesn't matter how others rate or describe the skis. It only matters how they feel to YOU.

I also wouldn't really make a list. I've found when I've done that the skis I wanted weren't available or were the wrong length, etc. Don't limit yourself to any particular maufacturers or models...try EVERYTHING they have in your size as well as 1 size longer and 1 size shorter. My biggest WOW's have come on skis I hadn't planned to try, in sizes I never would have considered.

That said, most maufacturers have a general "feel" throughout their line (my impressions, YMMV):
Volkl - snappy and powerful, loves speed, race oriented
Atomic - burly, powerful, and precise with stiff tails, requires speed, race oriented
Fisher - powerful and precise, loves speed, race oriented
K2 - damp yet playful, easy going, fun oriented
Rossignol - very damp, smooth and predictable
Salomon - snappy and light, fun and energetic
Volant - very smooth and damp, stable and powerful
Blizzard - light and snappy

 

[w.ski]

Volklgirl, this is a great post. When I demo, I can always tell pretty quickly whether I like a ski or not, but I've always had trouble figuring out why. Your post has helped me with the why. I used to have Volkl pink stars and ended up getting rid of those within the season and buying 5 stars. The pink stars did the skipping out of a turn that you describe and, yes, they were too soft for me. A couple of years ago I demoed K2 Burning Luvs, expecting to love them. I think I'm the only woman on the planet that doesn't! I do love that Volkl snap and I think, in retrospect, the K2's were too damp. Anyway thanks for a great post.

 

[ski now work later]

Hey w.ski, I prefer Volkls too though my daughters (who are advanced beginners) do well on K-2s. I used to have the 5Stars which are awesome for East Coast groomers, but I sold them as I needed a different quiver and did not want to own more than 4 pr. of skis at a time.

I think that Ski Diva told me you ski Stratton -- is this so? I also ski Stratton (mid-week) if you ever want to hook up. I'm an advanced skier at a hill like Stratton where the runs are so consistently groomed....

 

[Pequenita]

Thanks for the input so far! What kind of things do you look for when you demo? I demoed a few skis last year, the Volkl Attiva AC3, the Atomic B5, and the Head iM 88. I got the Heads because I felt the most balanced and stable on them, plus I could tear through crud and powder and feel in control. However, if I were to write up a review, I would not be able to tell someone after I skied them if they were "snappy" or "damp" or if I felt the tails were too stiff or the tips to soft, etc.

I was wondering if it is just simply becoming a better skier, or if there are tips to make one more aware of what the ski is doing, etc.

I think it has more to do with experience. When you learn to ski, all you really care about is not falling. For instance, a friend of mine who has skied approximately 5 days in her life came back from a week-long trip at Jackson Hole w/ her family and was really excited that she didn't fall all vacation. She clearly would be incapable of describing the qualities of a ski because her focus is on staying up.

As one becomes more experienced, he or she starts focusing on other things besides merely staying up. I think being able to articulate the qualities of a ski is a function of trying on a bunch of different skis and experience. But, in the end, unless you're a ski reviewer, I wouldn't really worry too much about being able to articulate this stuff. The people at the demo tents are supposed to be able to translate your "I felt stable and balanced" to recommend another similar ski for you to try. Alternatively, I would keep track of what skis felt good to you, and then see if you can find reviews of them or at least their specs to see what is similar about them.

It really is about your own enjoyment of the sport; the only person to whom it matters that you're on a ski with lots of energy or feels damp is you.

 

[altagirl]

I also demo a bunch. The key to me is to think through all the types of conditions, terrain, etc that you will use the ski for and come up with a route on the mountain where you can try it in all of those areas. Mine involves a bumpy, high speed traverse, crud, bumps, a groomer, maybe a few powder turns if I can find them, and then an icy/steep groomer where I can throw them sideways and see how they grip and release when I want them to, which then crosses a cat track I can air off of into a straightline down to the lift so I can feel how they track straight at speed. (more sidecut typically makes them need to be on edge all the time to be stable)

I then make sure I write down how they felt in each situation - basically give them a grade. How did they track on the traverse? Did they feel good in long turns, short turns, bumps, straightlining, and did they smear a turn or break loose and slide sideways and then hold an edge on command?

If I don't write it down, all I end up with is an "I liked those, I think, didn't like those..." - I can't remember all the details of why I liked or disliked each one very long unless I put it in writing immediately. So I carry around an index card and a pen, and then take notes as I'm trading them in for the next pair. I usually only do one or maybe two runs on each pair of skis. (That would depend on your mountain though and how you can fit in all your terrain).

You have to figure out what's important to you in a ski and grade each one on those traits. Don't worry about stiff tips or whatever for now - just worry about - "did it make me feel more or less confident in each of these specific situations". Knowing the construction and traits will end up helping you figure out what skis you're more likely to like though - maybe you find you love the feel of wood core sandwich construction or maybe you prefer lightweight foam core skis. Once you start figuring out what materials, sidecut or flex or binding mounting position you like on one ski - you'll find there are probably a number of similar products out there and will be able to look at the characteristics of a ski, flex it in a shop and know not to even waste your time demoing something you know off the bat is something you wouldn't like at all. Until that starts coming to you though - just demo everything you can! (I never pass up free demo days on the mountain... and pay for a few once in a while too when that's not available and I'm shopping.)

 

[w.ski]

Hi ski now work later, I do ski a lot at Stratton and would love to meet up with you sometime. Sounds like we ski at about the same level - I can ski pretty much anything at Stratton with the exception of the harder trees. And I'm not sure that what I do in the bumps qualifies as skiing - something I want to work on this year!

 

[SnowHot]

My love of gear technology started with learning all I could about a single purchase, back when I got my first shaped skis.

The amount of knowledge I gained for my own personal research expanded when I looked for skis for my sister, and then when I sold my G3's and looked for their replacement.
It seems that I learned a little at a time, trying to file away the information each time.

The area I lack the most is bindings. I really want/need to know more about bindings, systems and plates.

 

[abc]

A couple of years ago I demoed K2 Burning Luvs, expecting to love them. I think I'm the only woman on the planet that doesn't!

Nope! There're TWO of us!

Anyway, I can't say I bother with the different characteristic of skis. I'm still in the stage of shape/width/length stage. I simply can't tell the difference of different "construction" much. I think for some people, they're happy to ski on a pair of 2x4's!!!

As for stiffness and the tail/shovel thing. It usually doesn't matter in groom terrain. So unless you take the ski to the bumps or trees, you can't tell. And if you don't ski those at all, you wouldn't notice any difference.

My demo phylosophy is much simpler than that of the guys. I simply want a pair I don't hate! After all, it's mostly the technique. As long as it's the right length, right stiffness for my weight so I can bend them, I can make it work!

I do notice a wider ski is more stable in soft snow and a stiff shovel plow through slushy cruds with more authority, etc. So I pick the right one for the job, trying to avoid hammering a nut and screwing a nail sort of thing, without getting too hung up on the technical jargons.

 

[volklgirl]

Most people really need not worry about ski construction. The only parts of the construction process that will really impact the way a ski feels is the core construction and the use of metal layers. For example, most foam core skis will be lighter weight and more "fun" feeling while solid wood core skis will typically be heavier and feel "burly". Heavy-weight skiers should choose wood core skis simply because they tend to be more robust and will hold up longer under the heavier skier. The number and type of metal layers in a ski will affect it dampness, weight, and stiffness (the more metal, the more damp and stiff).

Otherwise....yes, construction will affect how a ski feels, but the feel of the ski and not the construction method should be the major concern when choosing a ski.

 

[persee]

Well I've never truly demo'd. Sure I'd like to, but it seems that demo days are so early in the season most places in the east that I'm not ready to demo - ie it would be my first day of the season on skis and that's just not gonna tell me much. Even skis I'm at home on and love will feel a bit off my first few runs of the season as my body remembers "oh yeah! this is skiing!" That said I have technically demo'd one pair of skis - K2 Lotta Luvs - when the mountain didn't have any performance rentals that were short enough for me they had to give me something so no one was using those and so they were mine for the day. I had a blast on them.

All 3 pairs of skis I have purchased I have done so based on reading reviews (both in magazines and internet sites and more personal ones on skidiva and some other forums). I compare the skier doing the review to myself - both physical measures (height/weight/age), type of skiing, geographic area, and skiing ability. The first 2 pairs I have been extremely happy wiht my choices. The third I have yet to get out on, but hopefully soon!

Now as to "types" and the whole stiff/snappy vs damp, etc one must remember that a ski that might feel "damp" to a heavier skier, may not feel that way to a lighter skiier. I have not noticed K2's to be "damp" in my experience, perhaps this will change as I try out other skis, but it may not. At present I have skied TrueLuvs and LottaLuvs. So in the end it is all individual. No one can tell you what will feel good under your boots besides you, they can only point you in a direction.