KatyPerrey
PSIA 3 Children's Specialist 2 Keystone Resort
she was adamant that you do not change how you ski/technique in powder.
I agree with mountainxtc 100%!!!!!!
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groomer => powder
- Thread starter Serafina
- Start date
Two of the finest instructors out there have spoken. I say we have our verdict.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Two of the finest instructors out there have spoken. I say we have our verdict.
But it begs the question that one's technique is okay to begin with....
Pequenita posted some good stuff from mtnxtc ... differentiating between technique and application/tactic. Definitions are important here.
That's the biggest thing. If your typical "technique" involves pushing your heels out, skidding turns, you need to change that and start making nice round carved turns (especially in the powder - you can get away with things on the groomed that you can't in powder!). Now granted, you should just do that all the time, but do realize that if you can make nice round railroad tracks on a gentle green groomer, but not on a steeper intermediate trail... if you can get your brain around it, you can make those same nice round carved turns on a somewhat steeper slope in powder because you have the drag from the snow slowing you down and keeping your speed under control. Also note that in really deep powder, if you try to go out on a really gentle slope, you may just get stuck if it's too flat, even if you're trying to just go in a straight line. All depends on the depth and thickness of the snow.
So remember, if you're dealing with powder, you'll need to bump up the steepness of the slope to do the same sized turns at the same speed you would on a groomer. You're not changing your technique at all, you're just realizing the snow drag in the powder is going to slow you down. And you're making sure you're, you know, using good technique in the first place.
Skisailor
Angel Diva
My thought exactly. Definitions are way important. There are things that definitely differentiate powder skiing from skiing on groomed trails, even though "technique" (i.e. certain core elements of stance, balance, etc.) should not change. But I'd hate to leave we novice powder skiers with the impression that there is nothing different at all about skiing in the snow rather than on the snow.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have a great (to me) tennis court surface analogy, but the only person that I'm certain would get it is Pinto. Of course, whether I can apply it on the slopes is a whole other issue.
Hard court vs clay?
Your technique should really stay the same, but there are two problems:
1 - not everyone has great form to begin with, and these problems are magnified in powder.
2 - people who have nice form on the groomed get nervous and revert to old bad habits out of fear while trying something new.
Skisailor
Angel Diva
And grass. But I've never played on grass.
The analogy would be that for every ground stroke, you're (1) getting the body into position, (2) getting the racket back, and (3) bending the knees, although you have to do it all faster on grass than you would on hard court than you would on clay, and on grass you'd bend the knees more to catch the ball on bounce, etc. I claim that's the reason why I'm so miserable at it - not enough "practice."
Right. Part of the problem, I think, the first time mountainxtc introduced the statement that technique remains the same on the forum was that everyone had a different definition of what "technique" encompassed. For example, some people considered the angle of edging as technique and were appalled that you'd have that same angle of edging on both hardpack and powder.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
And grass. But I've never played on grass.
Yep, and I was thinking even more in depth about movement/footwork -- which of course encompasses Point 1 about getting into position. Clay is kind of like powder: you can't move too "hard" -- you have to run lightly. When changing directions on hard court, you use a lot of pressure, pushing off the foot. If you do that on clay, you'll probably fall down, or at least slip. It's a little like walking on ice. Grass is similar.
And natural court surfaces are easier on the body, too, just like powder is soft and easier on your body than firm surfaces. American tennis pros are like the stereotypical groomer skier who sucks off piste. Most of them are SO much better on hard courts. Whereas Europeans are better on natural surfaces, like freeride skiers vs racers. (Again, I'm using stereotypes.) One theory is that not only do they have more soft surfaces in Europe, but they all play soccer as kids, as well, so they are accustomed to moving on natural surfaces.
Anyway, maybe that analogy will help someone. It makes sense to me! :p
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This totally describes my first few, disastrous, forays into powder, I'd start out, be afraid to turn, get going "too fast," put on the brakes, hard, and fall on my butt. I'm not convinced superhero leg muscles would even do it - Z turns are just bad news in powder. On groomers, they're still not great, but you can get away with it.
I think of skiing in powder like I do driving in winter conditions - no sudden movements; nice and gentle. I also have to force myself not to get in the back seat and to smooth out the turn more that I want to, and to accept more speed.
I agree 100% with what AG said - *good* technique is the same in powder as on groomers, but not everyone has good technique in the first place, and for many of us, our awesome technique on groomers turns to crap in less familiar conditions. (Take, for example, me on steeps or wind-blown mank.) What this tells me is that you can improve your powder skiing by improving your skiing on whatever "normal" conditions are for you - but your current "normal conditions" skiing might not be effective in powder.
This describes me, minus the superhero leg muscles. My turns in more than 4 inches of powder tend to have very little plot (no middle). And then when I'm not turning/in the fall line, I freak out.
So, in my clinic w/ mountainxtc last year, she was adamant that you do not change how you ski/technique in powder. I won't go into details here because this is discussed in a thread somewhere toward the end of last season, and depending on how broadly you define "technique" you may disagree vociferously. Basically, she defines technique a particular way, and those elements stay the same no matter what terrain you are on; you're just using the elements to different degrees. Leaning back is not one of those elements.
Actually, this is the same thing I learned at the NASTC clinic I took during Tahoe Diva Week. We had a ton of powder one day at Squaw, and spent the whole lesson on this. Slow, gentle movements, edge to edge. Like Pinto said, it's hard to turn your skis when they're under a ton of snow, and with the shaped skis, the up-down movement isn't necessary. All the work has to be done down below.
snow addict
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This forum has a wealth of information and useful tips on skiing powder! This is how I "learned" (I am far from perfection but it helped me tremendously). It's not dissimilar to how you normally ski, though deficiencies in your groomer skiing will be immediately exposed and magnified in the off-piste powder where you don't have firm support under your skis. I also found practicing skiing moguls on non-powder days helpful for developing powder skiing skills. So if you don't have an opportunity due to conditions to take a powder lesson, take a mogul lesson. You may find it useful when it starts dumping powder.
