First time buyer: Best way to pick a pair of skis?

[good-luck]

Warning: Big newbie to the ski purchasing world, so some of my questions are probably very basic... For reference, I ski all over New England on the east coast, 5' 7", 165 lbs, and am just getting comfortable with speed and more confidence overall. I'd consider myself solidly intermediate at this point, and really looking for a ski that I can grow on, but won't throw me around. Figured I might as well get a pair now with some of the end of season deals to make my first ski purchase slightly nicer on the wallet.

With that out of the way: I'm becoming slightly overwhelmed looking through all of the multitude of ski brands and models out there, how do you all pick a pair to purchase if you don't have time to demo? Honestly, I'm not sure if I would be able to tell a difference even if I had the option to try multiple pairs back to back... What sort of characteristics makes a particular ski seem 'playful', or 'forgiving', etc? At this point, are online reviews or general word-of-mouth the way to go (such as asking you ladies)?

All I've been able to narrow down in that something in the 80s-90s mm width is probably good for an an all mountain ski, and that most online ski length calculators seem to be saying that something between 157-165 cm would be a good length. Does that seem accurate or slightly short? I've seen a bunch of different lists or models recommended here, but how do you pick between them? Models that I've seen mentioned in various places:

* Blizzard Black Pearl 88s
* Volkl Yumis
* Armada Victus (83? 87 Ti?)
* Elan Ripstick 86W
* Rossi Experience 88

 

[SallyCat]

Welcome!

What are your current skis?

Yes, 157-165 seems short, especially for your ability level. I am 5'8 and 175# and my skis are 172. I would think 166-170-ish would be your range, depending on the ski. Shorter in a groomer-ripper and longer in a softer ski with more rocker.

The Black Pearls are the Marmite of skis: people either love or hate them, with very little middle ground. That's one pair I wouldn't buy without demo-ing, especially as an East Coast skier.

I don't think anyone here would recommend a ski that you should buy without demo-ing; the best we can offer is a list of suggestions for you to try. I do know what you mean, though, about wanting to grab something on sale this time of year. Sometimes it's worth taking a chance. You'll have a ski you can really get to know as a baseline and then demo next season. If you fall in love with another ski, you can always sell your first pair.

Fwiw, I live in Vermont, am a progressing intermediate, and ski the Volkl 90Eight. I like its versatility but also I tend to prefer wider skis. Some people feel that it's not a very "lively" ski and I suppose that's true in the sense that it doesn't propel you out of a turn like a cannon, but I think it has great edge grip, is light and fun and pretty easy to ski.

 

[good-luck]

Welcome!

What are your current skis?

Yes, 157-165 seems short, especially for your ability level. I am 5'8 and 175# and my skis are 172. I would think 166-170-ish would be your range, depending on the ski. Shorter in a groomer-ripper and longer in a softer ski with more rocker.

The Black Pearls are the Marmite of skis: people either love or hate them, with very little middle ground. That's one pair I wouldn't buy without demo-ing, especially as an East Coast skier.

I don't think anyone here would recommend a ski that you should buy without demo-ing; the best we can offer is a list of suggestions for you to try. I do know what you mean, though, about wanting to grab something on sale this time of year. Sometimes it's worth taking a chance. You'll have a ski you can really get to know as a baseline and then demo next season. If you fall in love with another ski, you can always sell your first pair.

Fwiw, I live in Vermont, am a progressing intermediate, and ski the Volkl 90Eight. I like its versatility but also I tend to prefer wider skis. Some people feel that it's not a very "lively" ski and I suppose that's true in the sense that it doesn't propel you out of a turn like a cannon, but I think it has great edge grip, is light and fun and pretty easy to ski.

My current skis are ones that I rented for the season from a local shop in the Boston area, they gave me a pair of Volkl RTM 7.6s, that are only 147 cm, and I definitely feel like I need longer now that I've improved. They served their purpose with giving me something to improve on as a beginner, but it's very clearly not going to help me once I turn it in next month. So with that said, almost any ski I buy is going to be a drastic change in both length and width for me.

I had a feeling someone would thing that that range was short, reading over most of the posts here it seemed like most people were on longer skis than I would've thought. I was just using the calculators on evo or skiessentials, so good to know that longer might be better. I'm saying that especially since depending on what the response was here on the Black Pearls, there was a 2016, 159 cm model being sold used in my area that I was considering. Given the length and that the Pearls are as polarizing as you say, they might not be the right ski to grab for me for next season.

Understandable that most are going to recommend just buying one, I figured that'd be the case. But thanks for your feelings on the 90Eights regardless! I do think that something like that might be too big of a jump for me coming from the 76 cm, but good to know going forward if I find that I like the wider skis as something to try and demo at some point.

 

[diymom]

Welcome! I'm also a New England skier, and in the Boston area, but don't get out to as many different hills as often as I wish.

I also didn't think I would be able to tell the difference if I were to demo. Turns out that even if I can't put my finger on why I do or don't like a ski, there are skis that I don't want to do more than a single run on, and skis that really make me smile. But yeah, not too much opportunity left for a demo this year. Waterville has one this Friday, but with the warmer weather in the forecast, unless you are specifically looking for spring slush skis....

I do read reviews of skis online, and I do look to see if any divas have posted demo notes if I am curious about a ski. Not to be a Debbie Downer, but it's still a crap shoot without a demo. I consider myself an intermediate skier. There are some skis I like that online reviews say are good for beginner- intermediate. There are some I like that are supposedly advanced - expert skis. Go figure. And even with Diva recommendations, it all comes down to personal preference. The Black Pearl 88 is a really good example of a ski that some divas love, some don't so much. (I fall in the latter category.) But if you can't demo, I'd probably go with diva advice over random online ski descriptions.

So with all that as a discIaimer, I will tell you I am about 5'4", currently 165 lbs. I've skied the Yumi in both the 154 and the 161 and like both, but if I were to buy one I would most likely get the the 161. I tried the Black Pearl on two different occasions, and tried the 166 both times since the 159 wasn't available. The 166 did not feel too long. Lately my skis tend to be along the 158- 163 cm range. I've been skiing the Head Absolute Joy, 158 cm for a couple of years, but this year picked up a pair of Atomic Vantage 80 cti, 160 cm and have been grabbing those more often lately. I also have a pair of K2 Thrilluvit, 163 cm for soft snow or spring slush. Since you are a few inches taller, I would think you might like a ski a few inches longer than me, but can understand that you might be a little hesitant to go up too much at once if your have been skiing a 147 cm ski. I would recommend looking at something between 160 and 170 cm.

And yes, a crap shoot can turn out just fine. I bought the K2 after a demo day, and did a second demo to confirm I liked it. But the Absolute Joy and the Vantage? I found a good deal on Craigslist for both of those, both new in plastic, and just went for it. I haven't regretted either purchase.

I'm not really helpful, am I?

 

[good-luck]

That was actually very helpful @diymom! I think for sure I'll not reach out again about the used Black Pearls based on your's and @SallyCat 's testimony's. Sounds like while they may work, they are polarizing and that I'd probably benefit from a longer ski than that anyway. I'll hold out until I'm able to give them a try first hand then before buying.

Yea I don't think I'll be able to make any demos happen the rest of this season, might not even be able to get another day out on the slopes to be honest. As you said, it's really all slush, and probably not representative of what we normally have anyway. Maybe I'll hold out until next season to pick something (do places do early season demo days in December?), hopefully some of the sellers will still have 2019 models to keep the price down slightly... Maybe I'll just have to go for the crap shoot. If you haven't regretted either purchase, I'm sure I'll get something at least decent if I don't get a chance to make that happen before my first trip out next year. Fingers crossed I guess, and either way it sounds like mid 160s is more what I should look for for the length as a starting point.

 

[lisamamot]

@good-luck , welcome!

Do you have boots yet that you love? If you have not locked down a boot it is best to get that done before trying to evaluate skis.

I recommend you shoot for a low-mid 160's length ski and something in the mid 80's waist width. I tend to ski a high 80s-low 90s waist width as my daily driver but coming off a 76mm width ski the mid 80s would be a good transition ski for you. I would add the following ski to your list of potentials:

• Nordica Astral 84 165cm - I just demoed the 2020 version of this ski and it is a great all-mountain for New England. If I recall properly, the top sheet was the only change for 2020. They added "ti" to the naming convention for 2020 but according to the rep the titanium was always in the ski just not advertised as such. Bonus, REI has it in stock online and on sale.

Ken Jones Ski Market has a demo day the first Friday in December at Loon each year. If you decide to hold off on a purchase until then this is a great demo day to attend if you can. I have been the last few years and always keep it penciled into my calendar!

 

[good-luck]

Side note: Everyone here is so nice! Thanks so much for answering my questions guys, you all are great.

@lisamamot, I did pick up some boots earlier this year that work really well for me (Lange SX 80W for what it's worth). Got fitted by a boot fitter in the area and they feel great so I won't be needing to look for anything else in that category. The skis themselves are pretty much the last of my setup that I don't own myself yet.

Thanks so much for the recommendation on the Ken Jones Demo Day at Loon. Super easy drive for me from Boston, so if I'm able to take a day off when December comes around, I'll definitely try to make it work! Is there a way to see ahead of time what brands models are typically available on various demo days, or is a mix of fairly popular skis?

Also thanks for the Astral 84 rec. I'll add it to my list of models to consider for sure! If it was just the topsheet that was changed between 2019 and 2020, even better. Regardless what I end up with, I'll follow yours and the other Diva's consensus of mid 80s, and mid 160s for length and width while considering models though. Certainly seems to be the consensus!

 

[lisamamot]

I did pick up some boots earlier this year that work really well for me (Lange SX 80W for what it's worth).

Excellent. What size boot? If it is a 25.5 (which in a Lange should have a 296 BSL) I have a ski you are welcome to try out to get a feel for what you like. I expect we live close enough to one another to make it work

The manufacturers will be listed for demo days but not models. At the Ken Jones demo day the manufacturers have done a pretty darned good job of bringing a nice variety of skis. The waist width/length ski you are looking for should be pretty well represented. I am 5'9" and prefer a high 160s-low 170s length in a ski so I sometimes struggle but I am used to demoing one length and buying another. I demoed my Blizzard Sheeva 9 in a 164 and then bought the 172.

 

[mustski]

I am a bit of an outlier in that I have bought many skis without demoing them and have always learned to love them just fine. Where I live (Southern California) there really are no local demo opportunities and when I went on vacation, I didn't want to waste a ski day switching skis in and out. That said, my hubby has had a bad experience just taking a chance that way. Now that I am retired, it's less of a big deal to lose a ski day so I do plan to demo this spring in Mammoth. I guess my point is that I do believe in demoing but I also believe we can learn to ski any piece of equipment and like it just fine. For an all mountain ski, look for a ski in the low 80's range that has a nice short turn radius - under 15 - then it will carve nicely and be good at short and long turns. I have learned that I prefer a short turn radius for skiing crowded front side runs.

ETA: My current favorite ski is also the Volkl 90eight, but I am looking for something narrower with a short turn radius (groomer zoomer) that can also handle bumps, chop, and crud because sadly I hit chop and crud a lot where I ski.

 

[good-luck]

Excellent. What size boot? If it is a 25.5 (which in a Lange should have a 296 BSL) I have a ski you are welcome to try out to get a feel for what you like. I expect we live close enough to one another to make it work

Thanks so much for offering @lisamamot! Unfortunately I'm in a 24.5 (BSL = 286) so while that's a super generous offer, doesn't seem like it'll quite work out. I'll just wait until the demo day to hopefully try out most of the options that the manufacturer's end up offering that day

@mustski, really glad to hear that 'learning to love them' without trying a ski first isn't completely out of the question. Hopefully I'll be able to make the demo day work out in my favor to find something decent, but it really is comforting that I'll probably be able to make something work regardless. Shame your husband didn't have the same experience, but I guess that's why the recommendations are the way they are--> demo if you can, gamble if you must.

 

[Tvan]

I’m another rising intermediate skier in New England. 5’7” 160 lbs. I ski the Black Pearl 88s 59s which I bought the BPs on the recommendation of @nopoleskier after Diva East at Whiteface in 2018. I wanted to demo them before I bought them, but couldn't find a place to do so, so I leapt and made the purchase. It was not love at first sight. It took a week or so for me to love the Black Pearls. They do great in crud and on ice, and they are stable at speed as long as I stay out of the backseat. They like to go fast and served me well at Tremblant last week.

So, it’s possible to buy the right ski withour demoing, if you have good advice from someone who you trust (and who knows how you ski). Next time, I will demo first, mostly becauae i think it will be fun.

 

[Tvan]

I’m another rising intermediate skier in New England. 5’7” 160 lbs. I ski the Black Pearl 88s 159s which I bought on the recommendation of @nopoleskier after Diva East at Whiteface in 2018. I wanted to demo them before I bought them, but couldn't find a place to do so, so I leapt and made the purchase. It was not love at first sight. It took a week or so for me to love the Black Pearls. They do great in crud and on ice, and they are stable at speed as long as I stay out of the backseat. They like to go fast and served me well at Tremblant last week.

So, it’s possible to buy the right ski withour demoing, if you have good advice from someone who you trust (and who knows how you ski). Next time, I will demo first, mostly because i think it will be fun.

^Fixed typos. Sorry about that.

 

[Serafina]

Problem with doing demos now is that we're (finally) well into spring skiing conditions, and the ski that you want for these conditions is probably not going to be the ski that you want for the majority of ski season. What I suggest is doing another season rental next year, get a longer ski this time, and do some demoing during the regular season. At my home mountain (Mt. Snow) I know that you pay a demo fee for the day and you can try as many skis as you want during that day, and then if you buy skis from them during the season they knock the demo fee off the price. I think you can do more than one demo day, too. I expect that many of the larger ski ares have got some kind of comparable deal. And even if you don't wind up buying a ski from the resort's ski shop, at least you will learn what works for you and what doesn't, and you'll be able to take advantage of the sales next year.

It also gives you another year to progress, which means that the ski you wind up buying will probably work for you for longer than it would if you bought a ski earlier in your skills development. As far as ski characteristics, those have a lot to do with width, construction, sidecut, etc. and your personal ski style. This is why it's so important to try before you buy - a ski that is great for one person might be lousy for you, and you don't want to throw several hundred bucks at a ski that you turn out to hate.

And it might well be a matter of "hate" - as an example, as a New England skier, I heavily favor all-mountain skis. Carvers are awesome if you can count on groomed snow, but with climate change, we're getting more mixed conditions here, and can often get freshly blown powder sitting on a sheet of ice, and the carvers are great for ice and not so much for powder. All-mountain skis with their 80-something waists tend to handle these variable conditions better than narrower carvers or softer mid-fats. That's just my experience.

Last time I seriously went ski shopping, I tried three skis, each of which had an 84 waist, each of which were rated all-mountain, and each of which were appropriate for my ski conditions and also very popular. There was a Rossignol, a Blizzard, and a Volkl. The Blizzard was totally workable for me. If it had been my daily driver, that would have been just fine. The Rossignol I absolutely HATED and wound up taking a shortcut down the mountain just so I could get back to the demo shack and get rid of it faster. The Volkl I loved every bit as much as I hated the Rossi. And again, all three of these skis are wildly popular, and all three were appropriate for my needs.

There really is no substitute for demoing. If you're going to spend that kind of money, make sure you're getting something you love.

 

[lisamamot]

Usual suspects manufacturer Demo Days to pencil in for winter 2019/2020:

• Sunday River - the weekend after Thanksgiving. I recall there being a fee.
• Loon - Ken Jones Ski Mart sponsored on the first Friday in December. Demo is free and they sell a discounted lift ticket.
• Killington - generally the Sun/Mon after Ken Jones has theirs at Loon (was the 9th/10th in 2018)
• Stratton - mid Dec through March they hold various demo days featuring specific manufacturers.
• Mt. Snow - mid Dec.

Plenty of New England firm groomers on the Nov/Dec dates, lol.

You can also demo from the on-mountain shops (convenient) and others in the area (additional selection) at any time. Every shop we have been demoed from, both on and off mountain, will apply your demo fee to a purchase.

For a Spring 2019 demo - which could be a ton of fun despite spring conditions, Killington has the Nor'Beaster Bud Light Dazed and Defrosted on April 20th. Beer, music, demos. What could go wrong?!
https://www.killington.com/things-to-do/events/events-calendar/dazed-and-defrosted

 

[volklgirl]

While demo oportunities may be dwindinling this time of year, I'd disagree with others that demoing now is not helpful because it's not the conditions you normally endounter. Instead I'd say that if a ski works for you in the current combination of slush, crud, ice, and bumps, you can be fairly well assuried they'll work just fine on groomers. Much like you should demo powder skis on groomers knowing that they'll be find in powder since that's what theyre designed for, and having them work on groomers without flailing is a more important function of their design.

 

[Serafina]

While demo oportunities may be dwindinling this time of year, I'd disagree with others that demoing now is not helpful because it's not the conditions you normally endounter. Instead I'd say that if a ski works for you in the current combination of slush, crud, ice, and bumps, you can be fairly well assuried they'll work just fine on groomers. Much like you should demo powder skis on groomers knowing that they'll be find in powder since that's what theyre designed for, and having them work on groomers without flailing is a more important function of their design.

My powder skis are awesome on slush, powder, and bumps because they're fat enough to ride over the top, and rockered on both ends so that the tails aren't snagging in piles of stuff, and because they're soft. They're difficult to get up on edge and they don't grip on icy groomers worth a darn, and so if the "groomer" is really "groomed soft packed powder" they'll handle it, but it's not what they're built for.

My carvers have awesome edge grip and are super-easy to get up on those edges, but using them on slush is a recipe for a blown ACL, and using them on powder and crud is doable, but not what I'd call Hella Fun.

If you know you want a car to carry a lot of cargo, you don't test drive two-seater coupes. If you know you want a speed demon on the freeways, you don't test drive a scooter.

A good skier can use just about any ski on any surface, but it's a lot more fun (and easy) if you use purpose-designed gear when it's available.

 

[volklgirl]

If you know you want a car to carry a lot of cargo, you don't test drive two-seater coupes. If you know you want a speed demon on the freeways, you don't test drive a scooter.

A good skier can use just about any ski on any surface, but it's a lot more fun (and easy) if you use purpose-designed gear when it's available.

Yes, but you would still test drive both cars in basically the same way so you absolutely know what they will do in any given road or traffic condition.

I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't have skis for certain conditions (I AM the quiver queen, after all), but I am saying that a ski that you can ski easily and with some degree of fun in contions that aren't optimum for it, you can plan to have tons of fun on it when the conditions are optimal. Don;t blow off demoing because the conditions are crap - that tells you a whole lot more about a ski than perfect groomers.

 

[marzNC]

I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't have skis for certain conditions (I AM the quiver queen, after all), but I am saying that a ski that you can ski easily and with some degree of fun in contions that aren't optimum for it, you can plan to have tons of fun on it when the conditions are optimal. Don;t blow off demoing because the conditions are crap - that tells you a whole lot more about a ski than perfect groomers.

Makes some sense to me. I've learned about all-mountain skis when demo'ing on short blue (more like big mountain green, 2-3 min run) groomers in the mid-Atlantic. Have also demo'd powder skis on frozen groomers during late season at Alta before the off-piste had softened. Probably wouldn't buy skis new based on that sort of demo, but definitely wasn't a waste of time.