Why do my new skis feel so different from when I demoed??

[fgor]

What bindings did you mount them with? The Marker Squire demo binding has a toe height of 29.5mm and a heel height of 28mm. Your delta depends on your BSL. (shorter BSL = higher delta). In this case, a negative Delta, but the angle will still increase as BSL decreases.

I have no idea whether binding delta has many any difference to me personally, but I do find this frustrating! As far as I can see, no fixed bindings have a flat or negative delta, yet marker demo bindings are really common on demo skis, so I'm pretty much doomed to be demoing a ski with a different binding delta to the binding delta I'd have if I bought the ski. (without complicated things like shimming the toepiece!)

 

[chasinghorizons]

Demo skis are the same as the skis on your shop’s wall. I believe it would be too costly for a manufacturer to build a separate line of demo skis from the same mold but different topsheets. Usually the shop determines what skis they put on their demo racks; it’s not like the manufacturer sends them a specific fleet of demo skis. The SP version of the Black Pearl does have a more durable topsheet but is the same ski, and is sold in retail stores. It’s not specifically a demo/rental ski IIRC.

It's not expensive to change the topsheet, and Powder 7 regularly posts the disclaimer about different topsheets on their demo ski sale postings.



My friend also bought Demo Rossignol Stargazers with the xpress binding direct from Evo last year, and I bought the same ski from the local store. Same ski, same year, one demo one not, and very different topsheet materials. We compared them side by side. If I had her ski here I'd take pics. It doesn't seem like every manufacturer does it, but it does seem like at least Rossignol and Black Crows do.

 

[lisamamot]

@MissySki As seems to be the pattern, you and I both demoed, both loved, and both bought, lol. It has got to be a lemon tune because mine feel like the demo day. It is such a frustrating experience, but having @elemmac take them for a spin is a great idea; so handy having someone on mountain, with the same BSL, that is familiar with the ski

I saw most of the new demo skis, flat in wrappers, on the demo rack this season before we demoed. I remember being particularly excited they had the size runs on most of the Santa Anas (sadly not the 98 172). Based on when we demoed, I cannot imagine they had much traffic on them to account for breaking in. The rep also mentioned they were "straight out of the wrapper" so we must have skied them with a factory tune. That said, not all skis come out of the wrapper the same, even in the same model/year/size. We can bring our true bar to the mountain this weekend to check things out; I know he is busy, but perhaps SkiMD can take a gander at them?

 

[MissySki]

@MissySki As seems to be the pattern, you and I both demoed, both loved, and both bought, lol. It has got to be a lemon tune because mine feel like the demo day. It is such a frustrating experience, but having @elemmac take them for a spin is a great idea; so handy having someone on mountain, with the same BSL, that is familiar with the ski

I saw most of the new demo skis, flat in wrappers, on the demo rack this season before we demoed. I remember being particularly excited they had the size runs on most of the Santa Anas (sadly not the 98 172). Based on when we demoed, I cannot imagine they had much traffic on them to account for breaking in. The rep also mentioned they were "straight out of the wrapper" so we must have skied them with a factory tune. That said, not all skis come out of the wrapper the same, even in the same model/year/size. We can bring our true bar to the mountain this weekend to check things out; I know he is busy, but perhaps SkiMD can take a gander at them?

Good point on the demos! I forgot that he did say they were factory standard without another tune when I asked that.. So that means I was probably not very far into the list of people who demoed them.

I am still most intrigued by the mounting point, only because you can more easily be forward or back on a demo binding.. I think??

However, not a bad idea to check the tune for sure!

 

[santacruz skier]

@MissySki it that it helps you. I'm in Taos and taking out the SA 93 tomorrow and have been on the Sheevas all week. Just for fun!

 

[santacruz skier]

Lunch break! Love the Santa Ana 93’s in a 153. They are the 2020 model with 2 sheets of metal. Def stiffer than the Sheeva 9, flatter tail but still a blast to ski in all conditions. We’re going to cruise this afternoon but skied 3 hours on them so far…. I would imagine the newer version would feel different. Hmm maybe I should try to find some 2020’s.

 

[MissySki]

Lunch break! Love the Santa Ana 93’s in a 153. They are the 2020 model with 2 sheets of metal. Def stiffer than the Sheeva 9, flatter tail but still a blast to ski in all conditions. We’re going to cruise this afternoon but skied 3 hours on them so far…. I would imagine the newer version would feel different. Hmm maybe I should try to find some 2020’s.

Some don't feel they are very different, but I didn't care for the 2 metal layer version myself. I thought you demoed the SA previously too??

 

[santacruz skier]

Some don't feel they are very different, but I didn't care for the 2 metal layer version myself. I thought you demoed the SA previously too??

I did in Taos in 2020. Same ski but this time a 153 instead of 161.

 

[lisamamot]

Some don't feel they are very different, but I didn't care for the 2 metal layer version myself. I thought you demoed the SA previously too??

I have heard that as well - what I love about the 2022 is the new lengths. I didn’t hate the 2 sheet version, but it wasn’t quite me plus the 169 was short and the 177 with that metal would have been too much. Goldilocks.

I know you will figure yours out, but how frustrating!!

 

[vanhoskier]

@MissySki
Have you had a chance to figure anything out?
That ski was such a fun demo for me, but I could see that a funky tune could make it a handful.

 

[MissySki]

@MissySki
Have you had a chance to figure anything out?
That ski was such a fun demo for me, but I could see that a funky tune could make it a handful.

No, haven’t dealt with it at all yet. Will definitely update when I do though.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

This thread has been sooooo helpful. I’m experiencing the same issue with my SA93’s that I got last year. I can’t seem to find my groove on them like I did when I demo’d. I demo’d with the demo squires, and got squires mounted on my own. But something just feels…off balance. I can’t figure it out, it’s driving me crazy. I have a short BSL so after reading this, I’m guessing my delta is not right for me.

I am kind of nervous to set up my new skis - seems like it’s hard to get that exact demo feeling unless you get demo bindings. I just got Stockli Nela 96’s and I’m hoping REAL hard that they feel as amazing as they did when I did the demo!

(And yes I know - 88’s are more appropriate for the east coast, but I liked the 96’s better. More playful, but still can rail thr groomers…it’s a Goldilocks ski for me!)

Looking forward to following this thread as it unfolds.

 

[scandium]

I found demo squires available to purchase and am honestly considering getting them for whatever my next addition to my ski quiver ends up being, because it removes that variable from the "demo vs. purchased skis" equation. Of course, this means that next season I must focus on the 85-95mm range....

Marker Squire 11 TCX Demo Ski Bindings | Absolute-Snow

Marker Squire bindings on an adjustable platform to suit multiple boot sole lengths. £169.95, Marker Squire 11 TCX Demo Ski Bindings, 90mm

www.absolute-snow.co.uk

 

[WaterGirl]

Of course, this means that next season I must focus on the 85-95...

I don't have experience with the demo bindings, but with the regular Squires you just swap out the brake to the size you want -- I had a shop that would swap with me np if necessary when mounting my skis....

 

[WaterGirl]

I am still most intrigued by the mounting point, only because you can more easily be forward or back on a demo binding.. I think??

@MissySki did you ever find a resolution? I think I may have found a variable that could affect the difference between a demo binding and having new skis mounted ........

So I have recently been skiing some new to me boots that are similar BSL to my old Tecnica Mach 1 LV. I was perplexed b/c when I looked at the boot center mark on the new boots when when clicked in to my newest skis and noticed that it appeared that I was ahead of the ski factory line. The skis were originally mounted with the Mach 1s. I have always felt that the skis were mounted a bit forward compared to when I demoed, but I did a hasty demo the week before the covid shut down, bought the skis and finally had then mounted last year so I just thought my memory was a bit fuzzy regarding the skis feel. I decided to look at both boots and tape off and measure each boot's center mark/line. The Tecnica's boot center line is at least 1cm+ forward of true boot center. The new boots line is at "true" boot center. For reference I measured DD's Atomic Hawk Ultra and my Scarpa Gea's and booth of those boot's line is exactly at true boot center. So why do 3 boots have a center mark that is true center and the Tecninca's have a mark that is +1cm? WTF

When I demo I always make sure I check to see where the boot center line is compared to the ski's factory line in the demo binding.* I understand that demo bindings are set on "length" of the boot, not the boot's center mark, and that it positioning could vary based on how that boot fit within the parameters of the sizing on the demo binding. Therefore it could be variable as to where the boot's center mark aligned with the ski's factory mount line in any given demo binding. I always thought this was one of the potential issues between the feel of a demo ski and one mounted with a regular binding. *Because I was speed demoing they day I tried my new ski I did not have a chance to check the line - I was intending to get on them again, but things shut down.

Why did Tecnica decide to bump the boot center line 1 cm+ forward of true center? Is this part of their "woman to woman" initiative to dumb down their boot by moving the center mark forward so women are skiing +1 of a ski's factory mount line?

So Diva's with new skis that feel different than when you demo'd -- check your boot center line ---- because if its different then you are now potentially skiing +/- what you were when you demo'd.

 

[WaterGirl]

Edit - so I re-read the entire thread and see where I noted the "A mark" vs. the "line" on the Mach 1's and the fact that most of my skis we more on the A mark side. Very confusing. So my very trusted tech mounted my older skis more true to boot center and the newest ski was mounted on the line which is +1 which is why I feel a bit too forward on them. Hmmmmm - well that kind of pisses me off now... but they may need a remount anyway when I decide on new boots and I'll definitely have more than the necessary distance between holes.

 

[steepsanddeeps]

I just want to say that I have had that experience too and it also shot my confidence. It's very hard to recover from that. When it happened to me another shop blamed it on tuning. I hope you get your mojo back and fast.

 

[echo_VT]

I’m also wondering what happened to the Santa Ana’s—- did you change the Mount point or get it tuned or get a grind?

One pair of my skis are due for a grind relatively soon I think. Waiting for more coverage before taking them in.

I actually got atomic shift bindings on the Santa Ana’s and it skis way better than when I demoed. I didn’t need a breaking in period at all. However I got it in 2019 I think so maybe not the same year as yours. I heard the ski changed after the year I got it.

I recently changed my other skis mounting point. I got a narrower race ski, the Fischer RC4SL (but a kids version) I also have Lange race boots. Everything is way stiff. I had trouble engaging the tip on steep cruddy runs. A recommendation I had was to move the mounting point 1 cm forward from a psia examiner. Bc I’m a small woman just under 5’4” and a lightweight. She has to do the same thing for her skis. I think I am engaging the tip more and feeling way more stable on the ski. I’ll totally be working on it a bit more to judge. But set up is such a huge part of the experience.

My Santa Ana’s were skiing horribly end of 2020 season (I think?) and I hadn’t a clue what was happening. I just needed a grind and it was fine again.

 

[Mudgirl630]

The first thing came to my mind is your skis being brand new, they are not broken in yet.
They will definitely feel very different once they are broken-in.

 

[MissySki]

Sorry for not updating everyone! Last season ended early for me and I haven’t done much with them this season. I had them tuned, but then only skied them a run back from the shop as other days I’ve been in my group class when I didn’t want to potentially fight with them. So I’ve been on other skis. Since I have the next week off to ski I plan to spend some more time on them one of the days to see how they feel after the tune though!