Why do my new skis feel so different from when I demoed??

[MissySki]

@MissySki as weird as it sounds, the skis (esp. with metal) I think need to 'learn' who you are -- really just getting the ski to flex to your weight and soften up a bit.


I also remember reading that the new Squire demos have very minimal or even -1 delta. I could not find any official stats on them but I did find this chart from Tyroliafor the 20.21 bindings. See page 12-13 for the ramp angle 2,5.

https://www.ajmotionsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Tech_MANUAL_EN_2020_final_web.pdf

Also when checking your mount with your boots, my Mach 1 has a line and an A for boot center - so might want to check what mark was used for the mount line. On all my skis it seems (to me) that they line up more with the A which could just be the way they are with the Squire bindings (which I run on all my skis), but they line up all the same on each ski's factory line. Maybe someone else can chime in on this.

That's very interesting on the boot center markings! I'll have to look at where things line up on mine specifically, unfortunately skis and boots are up in Maine so I won't be able to verify until this weekend. Very curious on this now. I looked up a picture of my boot and see what you're talking about. I also did check where things were mounted this weekend because I wanted to see if something looked off.. I want to say the line on my ski lined up with the line on my boot and not the A, but I can't be 100% sure. I'm just thinking that I saw things match up, and feel I would have questioned it being on the A instead of the line.. again not sure though. Wouldn't you expect the line to be the spot you want? In the picture of my boot online it shows the A behind the line, so theoretically to get there I would in fact need to move my binding forward.. Very curious where I lined up on the demo bindings, and really have no idea on that.. definitely kicking myself for not checking bindings.. I blame it on being out of practice demoing due to Covid rules last year cancelling everything.

Is there anyway to know what the intention is with whether the line or the A is where you want something mounted to be centered on these boots?? That seems like a nice confusing thing to do in that spot of the boot.. Now I'm curious where my boots line up on other skis that were already mounted to my prior boots. Are yours mounted to the center of the A, or one of the legs, etc.?

 

[Iwannaski]

Really stupid question. The demo ski is the same year as the purchased ski, right?

 

[MissySki]

Really stupid question. The demo ski is the same year as the purchased ski, right?

Not stupid at all! And yes they are the same.

 

[WaterGirl]

Is there anyway to know what the intention is with whether the line or the A is where you want something mounted to be centered on these boots?? That seems like a nice confusing thing to do in that spot of the boot.. Now I'm curious where my boots line up on other skis that were already mounted to my prior boots. Are yours mounted to the center of the A, or one of the legs, etc.?

You would have to speak to someone at the shop. 2/3 of my skis have been mounted by an extremely picky tech who has now retired. He measures everything, making sure both factory lines are similar distance from tip or tail etc. I checked the lines/ marks on my boots where those 2 skis were compared to my newly mounted ones, and they are the same. It could be the way the boot fits w/ the Marker jig.

Only other thought is boots? I know you have new boots maybe your not as tight in them as you were when you demo'd?

Seems like a trip to check with the tech is in order. I do know that in prior years the Nordica's tunes may not have been the best out of the box. As I said before, the shop may have a protocol for the way the tune the demos and may be the simple explanation. (don't overthink the mounting point until you verify where it actually is on your boot )

 

[MissySki]

You would have to speak to someone at the shop. 2/3 of my skis have been mounted by an extremely picky tech who has now retired. He measures everything, making sure both factory lines are similar distance from tip or tail etc. I checked the lines/ marks on my boots where those 2 skis were compared to my newly mounted ones, and they are the same. It could be the way the boot fits w/ the Marker jig.

Only other thought is boots? I know you have new boots maybe your not as tight in them as you were when you demo'd?

Seems like a trip to check with the tech is in order. I do know that in prior years the Nordica's tunes may not have been the best out of the box. As I said before, the shop may have a protocol for the way the tune the demos and may be the simple explanation. (don't overthink the mounting point until you verify where it actually is on your boot )

I didn’t have them mounted where I bought them, so that’s my issue. I really wish I had mounted them where I bought/demoed now.. Would have been a lot easier to coordinate everything now that I have an issue. I can say I don’t think there was crazy measuring or anything special leading to where they were mounted though. I had an issue where the back of my bindings weren’t screwed in all of the way (which I of course didn’t notice until I got them home) and found out that a newer tech had done them. They made it right and it was as simple as having the screws tightened appropriately, but yeah no way did the new kid measure anything special that I can imagine..

My boots are definitely not quite as snug as they were when I demoed these skis.. That was only day 4 of my new boots/season and I’ve now skied in the boots 30 days. So they have surely broken in some since then and I had a tweak on a hot spot since then as well.

 

[elemmac]

If I fail at finding that the mounting point etc is any different, maybe you should take them out for a spin and let me know if they feel off to you! We are like the exact same bsl now aren’t we?? Unless you’ve gotten new boots this season.

Haha. Nope haven’t gotten new boots…I couldn’t get the ones I wanted, so ordering for next year. I’m still in my 275 BSL, so if that matches up I’d be happy to take them for a spin for ya!

 

[MissySki]

Haha. Nope haven’t gotten new boots…I couldn’t get the ones I wanted, so ordering for next year. I’m still in my 275 BSL, so if that matches up I’d be happy to take them for a spin for ya!

I think it does! Pretty sure my old boots were 276 and I dropped by 1mm in the new boot.

 

[Sheena]

I am having the same "issue" with my Sheevas. I loved loved when I demoed. And I have enjoyed them taking them out this season, it's not the same amazing demo experience I had.

 

[MissySki]

I am having the same "issue" with my Sheevas. I loved loved when I demoed. And I have enjoyed them taking them out this season, it's not the same amazing demo experience I had.

I feel your pain, so frustrating..

Any specific things you feel different about on them now versus when demoing?

 

[Sheena]

I feel your pain, so frustrating..

Any specific things you feel different about on them now versus when demoing?

They feel more planky and less balanced, and I don't feel like I have the same control as I did on the demo ski, and I have to work EXTRA hard to get them to respond. Its super strange, because I wanted to ski the demos all day, not so much with the skis I purchaed.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I don’t know how many years you’ve been skiing - but if this is the first time this has happened to you, you’re lucky.

Sad to say, sometimes it’s just an Occam’s Razor kind of situation. If after all your hair-pulling investigations, you get no resolution, it might be best to just call it and say that the skis really weren’t meant for you after all.

Oh my, if I had a dollar for each time this has happened to me...

The solution was easy: I sold them, each time, with a frank “sayonara” to the “great” skis that just didn’t work. Cut my losses and moved on.

It may look great on paper, test well for you and check all the boxes - and then...nada. (Prime example for me: the original Black Pearls, fully demo’d>BOMB. Sold them in 1 day.)

 

[MissySki]

They feel more planky and less balanced, and I don't feel like I have the same control as I did on the demo ski, and I have to work EXTRA hard to get them to respond. Its super strange, because I wanted to ski the demos all day, not so much with the skis I purchaed.

Ugh, that's almost exactly how I feel..!! Sorry you are going through it as well.

 

[MissySki]

I don’t know how many years you’ve been skiing - but if this is the first time this has happened to you, you’re lucky.

Sad to say, sometimes it’s just an Occam’s Razor kind of situation. If after all your hair-pulling investigations, you get no resolution, it might be best to just call it and say that the skis really weren’t meant for you after all.

Oh my, if I had a dollar for each time this has happened to me...

The solution was easy: I sold them, each time, with a frank “sayonara” to the “great” skis that just didn’t work. Cut my losses and moved on.

It may look great on paper, test well for you and check all the boxes - and then...nada. (Prime example for me: the original Black Pearls, fully demo’d>BOMB. Sold them in 1 day.)

Yikes, I'm sad to hear this happens more to some people.. I've been skiing since 2007, so not as long as many here, but quite awhile with a good number of ski purchases.

Definitely agree though, I will investigate a bit to ensure any easy explanations are ruled out, but I won't bend over backwards either. They are certainly a ski I can turn around and sell easily (especially with the current inventory issues) if they don't work out. Life is too short to be on skis that don't make you happy, especially when I have others that very much do. I just don't want to throw in the towel too quickly if I can recapture how I felt on them in the first place, they were so much fun..

 

[badger]

My experience with a new pair of skis, purchased because I demoed and liked them: When i took them out the very first time I could not control them for the life of me. Turns out the edges were high due to being cooled in the wrapper at manufacturer . I was newer to the spot then and didn't think the bases needed attention as these were brand new. I had a very bad fall skiing these for the first time.

Now here is a weird experience that occurred last week: I went to ski with a friend who is very technically proficient and knows her stuff. She had previously demoed a Black Pearl and liked it enough to try it again before considering a purchase. She reserved the ski at the same shop and was quite specific to make certain the length and year model would be one and the same. We picked up the demo and as soon as she started to ski she mentioned that the ski did not feel at all like the one she had tried previously. We skied most of the day and she was still concerned about the difference. Upon returning the ski she inquired about the possibility of maybe bad tune . Turns out that Blizzard makes a line of demo Black Pearls for recreational skiing and they are called Black Pearl SP. They are not the actual Black Pearl performance ski.
I had no idea companies did this. I had never heard of such a thing !! The ski looked the same...save for the little SP next to the model name that no one would notice if they hadn't seen the ski for sixth months.

 

[chasinghorizons]

Turns out that Blizzard makes a line of demo Black Pearls for recreational skiing and they are called Black Pearl SP. They are not the actual Black Pearl performance ski.
I had no idea companies did this. I had never heard of such a thing !! The ski looked the same...save for the little SP next to the model name that no one would notice if they hadn't seen the ski for sixth months.

Oooh this reminds me - I noticed some topsheets on some demo skis are tougher/different material than their regular models. Makes sense that they want the demos to be more durable, but to me, that also seemed to add a bit more weight? Possibly negligible, but maybe not??

 

[vanhoskier]

@MissySki
Sorry that your purchase isn’t putting a big smile on your face.
My first thought was the demo Marker Squire binding vs. your own binding - delta, as was mentioned earlier in this thread. That CAN make a huge difference. As can the tune.

I think you should take your skis into where you purchased them, on the mountain and compare to the demo mount. Compare the tunes as well. Yours are coming with the factory tune; it’s entirely possible that the tune sucks. I’ve had Nórdicas come from the factory railed, and the way you feel on your skis kinda feels like your bases may not be flat. If it’s a tune issue, that is easily fixable!

What bindings did you mount them with? The Marker Squire demo binding has a toe height of 29.5mm and a heel height of 28mm. Your delta depends on your BSL. (shorter BSL = higher delta). In this case, a negative Delta, but the angle will still increase as BSL decreases.

Also, it sounds as if you demoed in different conditions than you skied on Saturday. While clearly you have progressed a ton as a skier (way better than me)! the different conditions *may* make the ski feel different, BUT….you are skilled enough that what you are describing isn’t probably just the snow/terrain.

Funny enough, I demoed this same ski today at Sunday River. 6” off heavy wet snow and bumps. It was really fun, but required my attention in bumped terrain because it was a little stiff. (I am enjoying more easygoing skis lately). But I can see how you fell in love with it. It kinda made me feel like a rock star. LOL. The Sheeva 9, by comparison was that easy-going ski. But you purchased the SA for a different feel. I totally get it. I think you should be able to duplicate that same feel. AND feel like a rock star on it.

Don’t give up. In figuring this out, you will learn a lot of helpful information.

 

[vanhoskier]

My experience with a new pair of skis, purchased because I demoed and liked them: When i took them out the very first time I could not control them for the life of me. Turns out the edges were high due to being cooled in the wrapper at manufacturer . I was newer to the spot then and didn't think the bases needed attention as these were brand new. I had a very bad fall skiing these for the first time.

Now here is a weird experience that occurred last week: I went to ski with a friend who is very technically proficient and knows her stuff. She had previously demoed a Black Pearl and liked it enough to try it again before considering a purchase. She reserved the ski at the same shop and was quite specific to make certain the length and year model would be one and the same. We picked up the demo and as soon as she started to ski she mentioned that the ski did not feel at all like the one she had tried previously. We skied most of the day and she was still concerned about the difference. Upon returning the ski she inquired about the possibility of maybe bad tune . Turns out that Blizzard makes a line of demo Black Pearls for recreational skiing and they are called Black Pearl SP. They are not the actual Black Pearl performance ski.
I had no idea companies did this. I had never heard of such a thing !! The ski looked the same...save for the little SP next to the model name that no one would notice if they hadn't seen the ski for sixth months.

I’m fairly certain the SP just has a different, more durable topsheet. Construction is the same. It’s possible the demo had a bad tune or different bindings that changed the feel. There is no “demo” version of the Black Pearl.

But yes, an edge high tune is awful and sadly too common in factory tunes these days.

 

[vanhoskier]

Oooh this reminds me - I noticed some topsheets on some demo skis are tougher/different material than their regular models. Makes sense that they want the demos to be more durable, but to me, that also seemed to add a bit more weight? Possibly negligible, but maybe not??

Demo skis are the same as the skis on your shop’s wall. I believe it would be too costly for a manufacturer to build a separate line of demo skis from the same mold but different topsheets. Usually the shop determines what skis they put on their demo racks; it’s not like the manufacturer sends them a specific fleet of demo skis. The SP version of the Black Pearl does have a more durable topsheet but is the same ski, and is sold in retail stores. It’s not specifically a demo/rental ski IIRC.

 

[contesstant]

I suspect binding delta and bad tune, as others have said. Same for @Sheena. My Sheeva 10s were not much fun until I got them tuned.

None of my skis ski as well as I'd like until I get them tuned.

 

[newboots]

The SP stands, I'm told, for System Package. The skis come with an integrated binding (a track) that can easily be fitted for demos. It's also sold as a lower-cost alternative to recreational skiers - typically the same ski sold flat will cost $100-300 more once you add the cost of bindings.

I haven't tried them back to back. I would imagine they ski differently, though. The binding track is part of the ski (although on many Blizzards they can be removed; not so with some other brands). And so, on most of those where the binding is actually built in (rather than a track attached, the construction of the ski is necessarily different.