-
Women skiers, this is the place for you -- an online community without the male-orientation you'll find in conventional ski magazines and internet ski forums. At TheSkiDiva.com, you can connect with other women to talk about skiing in a way that you can relate to, about things that you find of interest. Be sure to join our community to participate (women only, please!). Registration is fast and simple. Just be sure to add [email protected] to your address book so your registration activation emails won't be routed as spam. And please give careful consideration to your user name -- it will not be changed once your registration is confirmed.
Where do you put your hands when you ski?
- Thread starter ski&bfree
- Start date
snowski/swimmouse
Angel Diva
Thanks, Pinto, for the visual and Voklgirl for the analysis; I'm a visual learner, too!
KatyPerrey
PSIA 3 Children's Specialist 2 Keystone Resort
Nice turns Pinto!! But.......
Unlike Volklgirl (sorry) I wouldn't push your hands anymore forward but pull your feet back under your center of mass. IMO the more you push your hands forward the more your hips go back behind your feet and you end up in the back seat. When you look at pics 2, 3, 4, 7 & 8 you can see the hip behind the feet which cause the "com" to be over the tails vs the middle of the ski. Also notice the lack of flex in the ankle. Straight up vs forward in the front of the boot. I know way picky
but it's my job!
Unlike Volklgirl (sorry) I wouldn't push your hands anymore forward but pull your feet back under your center of mass. IMO the more you push your hands forward the more your hips go back behind your feet and you end up in the back seat. When you look at pics 2, 3, 4, 7 & 8 you can see the hip behind the feet which cause the "com" to be over the tails vs the middle of the ski. Also notice the lack of flex in the ankle. Straight up vs forward in the front of the boot. I know way picky
but it's my job!
tcarey
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
While I believe that hands and poles play an important role in skiing I still like to have my students be aware of what the feet are doing.I agree with Volklgirl that in the first frame your hand is way behind and causing you to rotate your shoulder.What stands out to me however is where your hips are through each turn.It is hard to assess a student on a freeze frame,but it seems to me that your feet are ahead of your hips.Your hands are moving down the hill in most frames but your hips are not.Imagine you have a bungee cord attached from your hands to your hips around the iliac crest or the bony protusion of your hip.Each time you begin your pole swings the hips need to go as well,moving you ahead of the ski! You go take your equipment with you! Next time you go out to this type of terrain try and get someone to take video! That would help tremendously! Hope I made some sense to you!
T
T
KatyPerrey
PSIA 3 Children's Specialist 2 Keystone Resort
Wish I could have written what you just wrote tcarey!! I too believe the hands are important but if you are over doing it with the hands the rest goes to s##t. I believe if we can get people to focus on what the feet are doing and where the center of mass is the hands will take care of themselves.
I have skied with Pinto and she is a great skier. I'm sure she will be able to make these adjustments with ease!
As far as the pole drag- if the hands are where they should be you won't have much pole drag. I have a drill were I teach a pole drag with the outside or downhill pole. Gets you centered and level (shoulders) with the slope of the hill.
This seems related to stance in general, which is something that I've been wondering and talking about. A friend told me recently that an instructor told him to:
1) stand up
2) squeeze his butt cheeks
3) bend over
He did ... except, he couldn't bend over. The instructor said, "Exactly", that if he squeezed, it would keep him from bending too much and would help his stance.
Question then ... is squeezing a reasonable technique for aligning the body and staying out of the back seat?
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
But I WANT the pole drag. That's what started this (but of course thank you for the other stuff). I freaked out when I didn't have it. I don't think it's that way on groomed stuff or moguls, but it is on other terrain or snow conditions. It's some sort of proprioceptive need that I'm curious about.
KatyPerrey
PSIA 3 Children's Specialist 2 Keystone Resort
Sorry! I have a bit of a tip drag thing in steeper terrian also! But as I (and tcarey) said before if you can get the hips over your feet and start letting the hips lead you down the slope you won't feel like you NEED to drag the tip!
Let's go ski!!!
Let's go ski!!!
Robyn
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I concur with this statement! A good Pinto/Katy/Robyn ski day is due!
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
tcarey
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Pinto,
Sometimes pole drag is jsut another point of contact we can have with the snow,or almost like a rudder of a sailboat.Unfortunaltely it's not going to help you to get your center of mass to move.Is it fear or is it just laziness? I would take myself to some MUCH easier terrain and play with some activities to enhance your stance and balance.Maybe you can get out with Katy so she can help you achieve this.
T
Sometimes pole drag is jsut another point of contact we can have with the snow,or almost like a rudder of a sailboat.Unfortunaltely it's not going to help you to get your center of mass to move.Is it fear or is it just laziness? I would take myself to some MUCH easier terrain and play with some activities to enhance your stance and balance.Maybe you can get out with Katy so she can help you achieve this.
T
I do that in bad visibility. My pole tips are like feelers and it makes me feel more stable when I have no other point of reference because I can't see. From what I've been told it's not bad as long as you're not letting your hands drag backwards which throws you off balance.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I decided I'm not too worried about the tip thing anymore. I was looking for info and found these two guys, who drag their inside pole even on groomers. (But I see where hanging on to it too long doesn't let the new outside come around fast enough)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41llqEmmlQI
How's COM here?
(I have now posted the sum total of worldwide existing photos of my skiing.) Are my knees supposed to be in front of my toes? I remember hearing nose knees toes (to line up), and that's what it looks like to me in those photos I posted earlier. When I bend my ankles too much, the muscles in my shins cramp up. Maybe heel lifts? (and this is where I always start to say, Screw it, I am skiing wherever I want as fast as I want, I rarely fall, I "feel" balanced even if I don't look it, and I'm going to stop thinking now.
:D )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41llqEmmlQI
How's COM here?
(I have now posted the sum total of worldwide existing photos of my skiing.) Are my knees supposed to be in front of my toes? I remember hearing nose knees toes (to line up), and that's what it looks like to me in those photos I posted earlier. When I bend my ankles too much, the muscles in my shins cramp up. Maybe heel lifts? (and this is where I always start to say, Screw it, I am skiing wherever I want as fast as I want, I rarely fall, I "feel" balanced even if I don't look it, and I'm going to stop thinking now.
:D )
tcarey
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Pinto,
There are many variables to consider here.Can we have our knees over toes?Yes we can but you need to also think about your hips.Maybe just try to stand up! (easy for me to say!)Maybe the boots you are in do not allow you to flex your ankles,hence you flex elsewhere(knees and hips)In the first frame here I like the directional movement.You can see the left ski moving in the direction of the turn(diverging)it's a tad overexxagerated.Try to remember to tip then guide progressivley with that new inside ski,not letting it get to far out ahead of you.I hope I haven't sent you into a whirlwind of confusion.Remember skiing is fun!
T
There are many variables to consider here.Can we have our knees over toes?Yes we can but you need to also think about your hips.Maybe just try to stand up! (easy for me to say!)Maybe the boots you are in do not allow you to flex your ankles,hence you flex elsewhere(knees and hips)In the first frame here I like the directional movement.You can see the left ski moving in the direction of the turn(diverging)it's a tad overexxagerated.Try to remember to tip then guide progressivley with that new inside ski,not letting it get to far out ahead of you.I hope I haven't sent you into a whirlwind of confusion.Remember skiing is fun!
T
SnowHot
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have been working on my hands a lot the past few years. I used to be what I call a "gorilla skier".....arms at my side, no pole plant, using my upper body swinging movements to make my turns.....
Its been a process, but I think I'm finally getting it.
A picture of my skiing at the end of the season 09
Its been a process, but I think I'm finally getting it.
A picture of my skiing at the end of the season 09
tcarey
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Nice Snowhot! Looks like a fantastic day! I also have a hand that drags,it drives me crazy because I know that I am doing it.When I pick that cranky left hand up I feel that it is in a contrived postition.Maybe because I am just not used to it! When I ski without my poles my hands take a more natural position.
T
T
SnowHot
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
TCarey, you started getting my hands up with a drill and a couple tips you gave me at Okemo, which helped but didn't really stick. I'm guessing it was because I was undoing 20 years of bad hand position habit.
Because I'm a truck driver, what got me moving my hands forward more frequently is the visualization that I was shifting my dump truck, driving my hand(s) forward which helped me keep from letting the up hill hand drop back.
That sounds dumb, huh?
Skisailor
Angel Diva
Nice turns Pinto!! But.......
. . . . . . Also notice the lack of flex in the ankle. Straight up vs forward in the front of the boot. I know way picky
I am not a ski instructor, but at the ITC weekend I attended two years ago the instructors did video analysis of us and really harped on this as a primary stance issue (not a picky one
).Now, whenever I see someone's stance one of the first things I notice is whether their shin is vertical or close to vertical. If it is, it's easy to visualize how that throws everything else off and they tend to be in the backseat.
Pinto - thought I'd post this because there is a "no-thinking" way of fixing it - through boot fitting and adjustment. I saw your pics and then pulled up one of me just standing and mugging for the camera . . . :D, and my shin is angled much more forward than yours in just my neutral, relaxed standing position in my boots - i.e. without any aggressive ankle flexing. My boots just put me there. It's literally a no brainer.
Are your boots a bit too stiff? If your shins are cramping when you flex your ankles, it seems like something is wrong.
That said . . . girl . . you look great in these pics on some challenging terrain!
Edited to add:
Well sheesh, now I feel like a dummyhead. Just looked at the Youtube video you posted and they already do a great job of talking about getting the correct forward lean in your boot and ankle flexion . . . . . so yeah. What Bode said . . . :o
