The skate ski thread

[geargrrl]

I confess, I've done way more skate this year than alpine. With our new condo, it's great because we can look at conditions ( and alpine area crowds) and decide from there where to go. When the snow is crap at the alpine area, it's usually very good at Nordic, and vice versa. Because we are spending so much time up there, 3 or so days a week, I decided to get serious about skate this year. The only way to get it is miles, more miles, and lessons. Our Nordic club does privates lessons, $25/1.5 hours... what's not to love about that. You *can* get by with minimal instruction, but it's both inefficient and exhausting.

This is *the* hardest sport I have ever tried to learn. There is an incredible amount of nuance to it. Like I said, I've been doing lessons every two weeks and whoa: I just LOVE hearing "excellent progress".
The instructor I've been working with really understood my learning mode and the parts of skating that I wasn't getting. I've still got lots and lots to learn but at least I don't look like a hypoxic duck anymore. I am so pleased: I wanted to be better than I was at the start of the season to really enjoy a week in the Methow Valley. Which I did.
Here is a little vid from my last pre-Methow lesson, and then some photos from the Methow valley. I've more progress since that video...... work is really paying off. I added it up: 130 miles so far this year.

I haven't totally defected: seems like I'm hitting the powder weekdays at alpine.

 

[zoomamyd]

Nice work! Those trails look awesome. I also started skate skiing this year, and I am with you - it's incredibly challenging (but so satisfying!). I'm hoping to take a lesson before the season ends, I think it would be incredibly helpful. I've received some pointers from more experienced friends and learned the rest from YouTube...probably not the best way!

 

[geargrrl]

Lessons are key.

 

[newboots]

A hypoxia duck!

!!!!

 

[geargrrl]

I know, right? A friend said that and it's stuck in my head permanently.

 

[Christy]

Here is a little vid from my last pre-Methow lesson, and then some photos from the Methow valley.

We are headed to the Methow this weekend. Sounds pretty springy up there! Hopefully I can find the sweet spot between icy mornings and too soft afternoons to practice my classic skiing.

 

[geargrrl]

I just talked to the manager of the place we stayed in Mazama. She said the snow is holding really well. We had great spring conditions last week. It was firm and fast but not a skating rink in the morning (getting out around 8:30-9:30) slushy in the afternoons. Have fun.

 

[nopoleskier]

here's a skate ski tip.. when you are going up hill or bending over to far on the flats.. pretend you have a 100$ bill in your butt cheeks and you can't drop it, this will make you to stay standing tall and 'stepping out' more with your pelvis bone try to get the most weight spread out on the ski.. Sounds crazy but try it. Ride the skate.. Also Pay attention to where your head is- it weighs 8lbs. if you're going to lean or tilt- put it over the forward ski. Think propulsion and constant momentum forward :-)

 

[WaterGirl]

@geargrrl thank you for posting, this was to be my learn to skate year but just not going to happen, maybe next year, I really think that training for a amateur biathlon may be my 'looking towards retirement sprorts goal'....... ;0

 

[geargrrl]

here's a skate ski tip.. when you are going up hill or bending over to far on the flats.. pretend you have a 100$ bill in your butt cheeks and you can't drop it, this will make you to stay standing tall and 'stepping out' more with your pelvis bone try to get the most weight spread out on the ski.. Sounds crazy but try it. Ride the skate.. Also Pay attention to where your head is- it weighs 8lbs. if you're going to lean or tilt- put it over the forward ski. Think propulsion and constant momentum forward :-)

I've been working with a Level 3 PSIA instructor trainer. The way he interpreted it me was to add a slight pelvic lift with each weight transfer. Personally I found I work best with sequenced instruction. Tips are awesome, but all the tips in the world don't help if you can't connect with that presentation of the concept or don't have enough underlying base skill to be ready to apply it. I had several very skilled experienced skate skiers tell me, don't take tips from me, go get a lesson. Lessons >>> I've been doing at least one or tw a year since I started in 16.

 

[nopoleskier]

I've been working with a Level 3 PSIA instructor trainer. The way he interpreted it me was to add a slight pelvic lift with each weight transfer. Personally I found I work best with sequenced instruction. Tips are awesome, but all the tips in the world don't help if you can't connect with that presentation of the concept or don't have enough underlying base skill to be ready to apply it. I had several very skilled experienced skate skiers tell me, don't take tips from me, go get a lesson. Lessons >>> I've been doing at least one or tw a year since I started in 16.

:-) I'm a L2- XC Instructor Ex Racer on Men's Teams. Yes lessons are the way to go- having a quiver of tips as an instructor is needed because not everyone learns the same way. Have fun! I'll be quiet now.

 

[geargrrl]

:-) I'm a L2- XC Instructor Ex Racer on Men's Teams. Yes lessons are the way to go- having a quiver of tips as an instructor is needed because not everyone learns the same way. Have fun! I'll be quiet now.

Yeah I don't do well with "tips" especially from my spouse.

 

[nopoleskier]

Yeah I don't do well with "tips" especially from my spouse.

Lol, I didn't know we were married, again, sorry to intrude on your learning curve guess it's the Instructor in me, I hate seeing people suffer needlessly.

 

[geargrrl]

Huh? I didn't feel intruded on at all.... I was referring to the supposed tips my hub would give me which were total wtf moments.(and is why I want to work with instructors) Your suggestions sounds great and is accessible... it's obvious you know how to teach. I just might try your way of presenting that concept in the morning.

I've had a lot of lessons in the last 6 weeks. I'm trying to focus on the things that clicked and hopefully get them ingrained into muscle memory before the season is over

 

[ling]

all the tips in the world don't help if you can't connect with that presentation of the concept.

Totally agree.

My experience, “tips” only work if I am already doing it some of the time. The tip may then be helpful in making it happen more consistently.

Otherwise, it just goes right over my head.

don't have enough underlying base skill to be ready to apply it

That too.

Skiing is all about balancing on a 40mm plank. All the talk about technique can only happen effectively when one is in balance. So typically when something is not happening, there’s an underlying issue in weight distribution or dynamic balance.

Tips are not the best tools to address balance issues.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

I think as instructors we are in the business of making suggestions which is what a tip fundamentally is. Online, without seeing the divas in action, a tip here or there is a gesture of well intentioned kindness.

Some people can actually improve from tips thrown out at the bar counter (I had a teaching situation like that for telemark skiing) while most students learn best from formal in person on snow progressions. I have many "reluctant" students who cringe at lessoning and can only accept an occasional quick pointer.

The beauty of this forum, is that a post in a thread might resonate with only one reader, yet for that woman, it will have been the perfect tip.

I used to teach skate skiing (level 2 PSIA nordic track instructor) and this thread has inspired me to finally go crust cruising tomorrow after 20 years of encouraging my guests to try it. I never want to get up early on my rare winter season days off. Thank you all!

 

[ling]

I had several very skilled experienced skate skiers tell me, don't take tips from me, go get a lesson.

Interestingly, I noticed while downhill skiers are very free with their “tips”, and with reasonable chance of success (say 50% on spot?). Cross country skiers rarely do, and those random “tips” tend not to have much effect (10-20% success?).

I suspect it’s because downhill skiing movements are quite often counter-intuitive. So “tips” have a way of resetting the wrong (“intuitive”) movement and refocus on the correct but counter-intuitive movements.

I suspect trying to decelerate as in downhill skiing might be the part that’s counter-intuitive? Cross country ski techniques seems pretty natural to me. And to many others too.

So it’s more of a finding the balance, putting in the mileage to commit those movements to muscle memory. Also unlike downhill skiing, we’re typically repeating the same movement step after step. Without the interruption of the chair lifts and the drastic variation of terrain, it’s much easier to go back and forth on the same stretch of snow and trying out different body position, posture, timing etc. Finding the most effective movement is much easier. I found I have pretty good result by doing drills I pull off YouTube!

 

[nopoleskier]

I think as instructors we are in the business of making suggestions which is what a tip fundamentally is. Online, without seeing the divas in action, a tip here or there is a gesture of well intentioned kindness.

Some people can actually improve from tips thrown out at the bar counter (I had a teaching situation like that for telemark skiing) while most students learn best from formal in person on snow progressions. I have many "reluctant" students who cringe at lessoning and can only accept an occasional quick pointer.

The beauty of this forum, is that a post in a thread might resonate with only one reader, yet for that woman, it will have been the perfect tip.

I used to teach skate skiing (level 2 PSIA nordic track instructor) and this thread has inspired me to finally go crust cruising tomorrow after 20 years of encouraging my guests to try it. I never want to get up early on my rare winter season days off. Thank you all!

Totally agree! And LOL I was thinking same thing, I haven't been on my skinny skis in a few years- so Yes, This thread has inspired me too go XC- I live 5miles from Lapland Lake XC- I used to manage/teach there for years. When I quit working there I slowly lessened XC as I got back into Alpine teaching/skiing.

So thanks for the inspiration Ladies!

I personally LOVE classic skiing- I find it physically rewarding since it uses every muscle, if doing it properly, even releasing/opening your hands as you pole gets your hand muscles. Skate skiing while fun and easy for me especially going from heavy alpine skis to skinny light skis, I actually get too cold because I get in the groove and ski in race mode. (yes to those who know me, I also XC ski fast) I will report back in. Gotta dig out the boots.

 

[just jane]

I’ve been flailing about trying to skate ski for a few years now. It is not intuitive at all, IMO. Lessons have definitely helped, but nothing about it comes naturally to me so it’s an exercise in perseverance and patience. I desperately wish we had a nordic area close by. It is the sort of thing where, if I could go for an hour or so multiple times a week, I think I’d have it down. As it is, we get out maybe 4-5 times a season.
(Last weekend, I got passed by a guy who I’m guessing was in his late 70s - on classic skis. lolsob)

 

[geargrrl]

Hi Just Jane. I so get your frustration. I really recommend lessons even if you don't go a lot. Take one your first day out, and then get in as much as you can. Then take another part way through the season. Mileage is great but no substitute for quality instruction. My hub was a natural: two lessons and he was zooming away with what looked like grace and speed, and me, still flailing with no glide and no power after 4 seasons. I did cry one day I was so frustrated. We (hub and I ) started this in 2016. I missed two seasons for various reasons and finally am feeling like I am making progress.

It's not intuitive at all for me either. When I met with my instructor this year I flat out said, "I don't understand what I am supposed to do with my feet to get power. The glide I kind of get but I am working way too hard". This is why I asked for an experienced instructor who I figured would have a good bag of tricks. It was great, he got very technical and specific with drills to help me understand and feel.

Speaking of tips, nopoleskier, I did try the "dollar bill in the butt cheek" out while out this weekend. It fits right into where I am at the progression.

I must be doing something right. I got *15* PRs (Strava) in the last two days. Good wax helps I'm sure.

Photos from Mount Spokane Nordic trails. It's deceptive as nothing is flat here.