Sizing down extra in boots

[AJM]

Can you explain the difference between these versions? And are any suitably for someone who is much more off piste than on?

I find it frustrating that to get an uber low volume good heel hold fit one needs to get in a race type boot. I want amazing fit and have low volume feet, outside of a wide forefoot, but I want a little more forgiveness in rough bumps and chop. I mean in reality I’m not that picky.. I’d be happy with my Technica Mach 1 LV Pro, though they are a little stiff, if the instep were a bit lower still (currently padded) and my heel didn’t rub the tiniest bit in back giving me bone growths on my heels. :/ They ARE the best fit I’ve had all around.

Planning to finally get back to my bootfitter in the next couple of weeks to discuss my heel bump issue. I’m not sure if it’s punching out where the heel bumps are, a new liner, aftermarket liner, pad heel of current liner (which I’ve never liked around my ankles because I’m like the princess and the pea and always feel like the padding is poking me because my ankle bones are so boney), talk about new options altogether.. I don’t know. But I cannot keep destroying my heels as it started affecting my enjoyment at the end of last season because the lumps were so inflamed. I’d go over bumps and would be wincing constantly because any harder than expected bump to especially one of my heels and I had zinging pain through the whole heel. Not ideal.

I'm not sure but I think the STi is lower volume than the TI and I have no idea about the CS.

As far as off piste, I have a friend who competes in the FWQ and she wears the Sti's and loves them and I also ski a lot of off piste as well .... obviously not at FWQ level I find they have such a nice flex that they allow me to handle all sorts of conditions.

BUT the heel bump issues are real !! They have such a narrow heel pocket that I got heel bumps this season as well (not to the extent of yours though which sound particularly nasty!!) which is a new thing for me. Our local bootfitter took to them with her set of magic tools and fixed the issue thank goodness. I will however have to get a little bit of extra work done on the forefoot part of the boot before next season as I started to develop a bunion type bump on my right foot which is not ideal .
These boots are narrow !!!

 

[WaterGirl]

Can you explain the difference between these versions? And are any suitably for someone who is much more off piste than on?

@MissySki Matt aka onenerdykid on SkiTalk has a whole thread on the Atomic boots https://www.skitalk.com/threads/the...ski-boot-discussion.22364/page-61#post-868415

The TI is serious race boot. The CS is geared down, a bit wider last. Here is info on the STI which a few Divas have:

onenerdykid said:
Let's go over some STI facts to help clarify.

The STI is the ONLY adult boot on the market that is developed on size 24 - every other adult ski boot in existence is developed on size 26 (sometimes 27) and scaled up/down to create the size run. While starting a boot's development with size 26 is the standard practice in ski boots and it does work fairly well, you will find that as you get so smaller sizes (especially 22 & 23), that the proportions of the shell & last can often get a little wonky. With the STI, we purposefully started with a smaller foot profile and built the size run around that smaller foot. This better ensures a more accurate last shape for smaller, lower volume feet.

It should also be mentioned that you will need a canting assessment done to any STI (and TI) boot because the shell sits 1.0° out. This setting is most likely not what you need so you should prepare to have the boot sole canted to your needs or at least put back to 0.0°



FWIW RE: Heel Bumps
Use KT tape for fresh heel bumps before they start to get really irritated and figure out how to fix before it gets out of hand......

 

[AJM]

It should also be mentioned that you will need a canting assessment done to any STI (and TI) boot because the shell sits 1.0° out. This setting is most likely not what you need so you should prepare to have the boot sole canted to your needs or at least put back to 0.0°

I did not know this.
I've previously had canting plates which ended badly for me and I swore I would never do it again !
I've noticed when I'm in the boots that they tend to feel like my feet are being tilted slightly towards the outside so this must be why.
In my case this is a good thing as that's where my alignment is all out of whack so yay for the 1.0 !!
Im sure purists would say I should get them canted properly but after my last experience that is a "No Thankyou" I'll take that 1.0 and call it a win

 

[Jilly]

Since onenerdykid works for Atomic, he'll know.

 

[WaterGirl]

@AJM glad it works for you I can't do canting..... but I appreciate @onenerdykid's candor sharing what is known by maybe boot fitters/ high level athletes but not the general public.....

 

[SnowHot]

@MissySki I came here to answer the question but @WaterGirl already posted the link to Matt Manser's explanation

 

[AJM]

Since onenerdykid works for Atomic, he'll know.

I dont subscribe to Ski Talk (TBH, sorry @SnowHot, I find it a bit intimidating) but I do lurk and always enjoy reading his posts .

 

[AJM]

@AJM glad it works for you I can't do canting..... but I appreciate @onenerdykid's candor sharing what is known by maybe boot fitters/ high level athletes but not the general public.....

What surprises me is that my bootfitter never told me this esp as we've had a canting journey and she also talked about me perhaps getting slightly less aggressive ones ( I was 1.5 one my left leg and 2 on my right from memory) once I'd got used to the boots .... mmmm might have to bring it up next time .
The built in 1 degree seems to be just the ticket for me, Im just happy I found this out as I did wonder what was different.

 

[SnowHot]

I dont subscribe to Ski Talk (TBH, sorry @SnowHot, I find it a bit intimidating) but I do lurk and always enjoy reading his posts .

No apologies necessary

An interesting piece of data. When I was the site manager of EpicSki the average female readership was between 6-7%, which is the norm for multi gender adventure sport sites. This is why sites like TheSkiDiva are important, and kudos to Wendy for having that vision.

Since launching SkiTalk/Pugski in 2015 we've had strong female presence of 24.7%.
I firmly believe it's beause we learned from the ownership on Epic what was off-putting(and not in my control because I didn't own it) and have set a tone on SkiTalk that doens't tolerate bad behavior. Now, mind you, there are some detractors, a few that are downright cranky, which you can't eliminate completely, but the female presence is definitely noticed.

It has been my(our) desire to have good synergy between the sites and are enjoying working with Rachel to build on that.

 

[leia1979]

@badger and @SnowHot thanks for the recommendation for the California Ski Company. I’ve made a couples boot fitting appointment for later this month, since my husband is having more fit issues than I am! I did end up sizing down in the Salomon S/Pro and it’s way better, but I figured if we’re making the trip to Berkeley, I’ll get properly fitted, too.

 

[SnowHot]

@badger and @SnowHot thanks for the recommendation for the California Ski Company. I’ve made a couples boot fitting appointment for later this month, since my husband is having more fit issues than I am! I did end up sizing down in the Salomon S/Pro and it’s way better, but I figured if we’re making the trip to Berkeley, I’ll get properly fitted, too.

Please let me know if you need any more information.

 

[Mary Brosnan]

I just did this yesterday with a fantastic boot fitter in PA (drove from Brooklyn because it's hard to find a quality fitter here). Anyway my first pair of boots when I got back into skiing about 10 years ago were a 25.5 then I replaced them with a 24.5 and yesterday ended up in a 23.5. I definitely need space made in the toes but the hold everywhere else is fantastic. I have a low volume foot with a skinny ankles and it's been difficult to get a strong feeling of connection with my boots. The fitter is independent so for the first session he does a thorough evaluation and recommends a few different models. I ordered three pairs in two different sizes. Yesterday's session was multiple hours of of trying on all the boots and evaluating what works best. This was a boot fitting session unlike anything I've ever had in a ski shop. Lots of time and effort for sure but for me feels worth it. I ended up with Lange Shadow LV 115 but also tried the Tecnica Mach1 LV 115 and a Nordica Promachine 115. The fitter's name is Billy Kaplan.

 

[lisamamot]

Nordica Promachine 115

My new boot! I was skiing the Promachine for several years, but last year sized down in mondo and up in flex.

The fitter is independent so for the first session he does a thorough evaluation and recommends a few different models. I ordered three pairs in two different sizes. Yesterday's session was multiple hours of of trying on all the boots and evaluating what works best. This was a boot fitting session unlike anything I've ever had in a ski shop

There is someone in NH that does this as well; we took our son here and it was the perfect choice for his circumstances. Richelson's Feet First, Paul Richelson

Richelsons Feet First NH - Footwear, orthotics and more

A small, hard-working professional group located in Plymouth and Bow NH. We offer custom orthotics, ski boot fittings, foot wear modifications and more.

www.richelsonsfeetfirst.com

 

[SnowHot]

I just did this yesterday with a fantastic boot fitter in PA (drove from Brooklyn because it's hard to find a quality fitter here). Anyway my first pair of boots when I got back into skiing about 10 years ago were a 25.5 then I replaced them with a 24.5 and yesterday ended up in a 23.5. I definitely need space made in the toes but the hold everywhere else is fantastic. I have a low volume foot with a skinny ankles and it's been difficult to get a strong feeling of connection with my boots. The fitter is independent so for the first session he does a thorough evaluation and recommends a few different models. I ordered three pairs in two different sizes. Yesterday's session was multiple hours of of trying on all the boots and evaluating what works best. This was a boot fitting session unlike anything I've ever had in a ski shop. Lots of time and effort for sure but for me feels worth it. I ended up with Lange Shadow LV 115 but also tried the Tecnica Mach1 LV 115 and a Nordica Promachine 115. The fitter's name is Billy Kaplan.

Billy is really good!
You're lucky to have gotten in to see him.
Your story mimics @mustski.

Billy will be able to make any adjustments you need and you'll be so happy with the performance level.

 

[Pequenita]

I don't want to derail this thread too much, but since OP seems on track, I am dying of curiousity to learn how ice skate fitting is different or similar to ski boot fitting, especially since I'm coming at it as a skier. I was getting fitted for my first skates last winter telling the tech, "well...this is what my foot is like, I have no idea how skates are supposed to fit..." I may ping you separately @leia1979

 

[elemmac]

I don't want to derail this thread too much, but since OP seems on track, I am dying of curiousity to learn how ice skate fitting is different or similar to ski boot fitting, especially since I'm coming at it as a skier. I was getting fitted for my first skates last winter telling the tech, "well...this is what my foot is like, I have no idea how skates are supposed to fit..." I may ping you separately @leia1979

I worked in a hockey shop in college and can definitely say that skates and ski boots are very similar in fit/process. For a "recreational" fit most people will get their measured size, or 1 size down. For a performance fit, most people will go 1-2 sizes down (some even 3 sizes down). Similar to ski boots, different brands run a bit longer than others...so a size 7 might be a 7.5 in another brand. Also similar to ski boots, different models (even within the same brand) can fit pretty differently.

Given that it's been quite a few years since I've worked in that industry, or bought a new pair of skates, and technology has changed ( I don't think the process has changed much though) ... most people will heat mold their skates in the shop to help with the initial break-in period. But if you're going for a real close performance fit, some people will have areas punched out (similar to ski boot punches).

Another similarity is that aftermarket foot beds can really do wonders to help out a skate fit.

 

[Mary Brosnan]

Billy is really good!
You're lucky to have gotten in to see him.
Your story mimics @mustski.

Billy will be able to make any adjustments you need and you'll be so happy with the performance level.

I think I found out about him either from Ski Diva or Ski Talk! He is unbelievable at what he does and such a nice guy to talk to and learn from

 

[SallyCat]

From a super-narrow footed skier, just for general future reference for the narrow-heeled Divas out there:

I measure 27.5 on the brannock measuring thingy.

I had a bootfitter (in Allentown, PA) refuse to bring me a 26.5. I actually had to argue with him and he finally brought me a 26.5 but grumbled about it the whole time and then fell off his stool, and I'm not a mean person but I wasn't sorry.

27.5 was always sloppy-fitting to me, no matter the brand or volume designation.

To get a sense of boot fit without numbers attached, take the liner out of the boot and put your foot in the shell with your toes just touching the front. If you can fit two fingers between your heel and the back of the boot, it's roughly recreational fit. One finger= roughly performance fit. That at least gives you an objective idea of what you will and won't be able to get away with as far as liner pack-out and volume.

I always ended up in Lange LVs because they are the lowest low-volume boots that aren't race boots. The best-fitting boots I ever had, though, were junior race boots. 92 last width. (Thank you to Start Haus in Truckee for the fit and recommendation). But then I gained weight and those boots didn't quite work anymore along with a lot of my clothes :-(

Now I'm in Lange LV AT boots and they are great; they fit fine; the only thing I'd do differently is get a stiffer flex because I guess AT boots are less stiff in general (not my wheelhouse, that's just my understanding).

But to make the saga more epic, I switched to snowboarding, and it's REALLY hard to find narrow boarding boots!!! Argh! I'm in Rome Bodegas, though, and they are good.

Anyway, cheers to good heel-hold and pain-free skiing!

 

[Tennessee]

I had a bootfitter (in Allentown, PA) refuse to bring me a 26.5. I actually had to argue with him and he finally brought me a 26.5 but grumbled about it the whole time and then fell off his stool, and I'm not a mean person but I wasn't sorry.

@SallyCat you can always take me laugh out loud! Thank you That’s definitely worth the price of admission here

 

[contesstant]

Yeah, I laughed really hard, too!

To add to her story, many here are familiar with my ongoing fitting woes. Not only am I now down 2 sizes from several years ago, but I'm also in a short cuff boot and am skiing more relaxed than I ever have.

My foot length measures 23.5, my instep 22.5, but my ankle circumference is 21.5, so Brent Amsbury in Park City put me in a 21.5 short cuff Lange non-race boot with a custom foamed Sidas liner and no canting. I swear all the canting I've had done over the years screwed me up as much as anything, but per Brent, the foam liner tends to mitigate the need for canting in a lot of cases where minimal canting is needed.

The short cuff has taken some time for me to adapt to. But I am now skiing much more with my feet and much less with my shins. So to answer the OP, yes, sizing down can be done for a myriad of reasons!