Since when...

[Robyn]

Well, Copper wasn't pretty yesterday. I had one of my athletes run into on our first run right next to a slow sign. I had other very near misses with both myself and the athletes. We started skiing interference behind the kids which really limited our ability to work with them. Hopefully the snow expected this week will help open the terrain a bit more.

 

[ski diva]

We had quite a lively argument about it all on the Keystone Facebook page. Some of the posters (young male borders, almost exclusively) were quite ugly about it - basically said they owned the slopes and the less skilled riders should just get the hell out of Dodge. When I pointed out that in early season the limited terrain must be shared between the various levels of riders....(very politely and reasonably, I might add), I've was bombarded with the nastiest posts I have ever received. One guy said, "You have white hair, LOL, shut up bitch." Funny, because I actually have two-toned hair - white on top, black on the bottom and it costs me a small fortune to get this look. This seems to be the clientele that Keystone is directly or indirectly encouraging.

Wow, that's pretty appalling.

 

[Little Lightning]

I have skied A-Basin, Breckenridge and Keystone this season. Keystone had....by far, the worst behaviors on-slope. The patrol at Keystone seemed to do very little to moderate the actions of the "yahoos." Hope I'm not offending anyone, but my observation is they hung in clumps at the gates, slowing people down a bit at the very bottom, but doing little else.

Breckenridge was wonderful - crowded, yes, but people were quite considerate in the main. Patrol could be seen everywhere, skiing fast and slow, not killing the fun, but having a moderating effect. A-Basin, not so bad either. Don't know what it is about Keystone that brings out the worst.

We had quite a lively argument about it all on the Keystone Facebook page. Some of the posters (young male borders, almost exclusively) were quite ugly about it - basically said they owned the slopes and the less skilled riders should just get the hell out of Dodge. When I pointed out that in early season the limited terrain must be shared between the various levels of riders....(very politely and reasonably, I might add), I've was bombarded with the nastiest posts I have ever received. One guy said, "You have white hair, LOL, shut up bitch." Funny, because I actually have two-toned hair - white on top, black on the bottom and it costs me a small fortune to get this look. This seems to be the clientele that Keystone is directly or indirectly encouraging.

Yes, that's pretty much the behavior and attitude that I encountered last Tuesday. Runs weren't crowded but that didn't matter, if you got in a boarders, or yahoo skiers way, too bad.

Technically, I'm probably better skilled than they are but my weight vs. theirs means I'm always going to be slower no matter how fast I try to ski. So I'm in their way no matter what. :(

Jumping slow signs, boarding in the "uphill only snow mobile blocked off area" suggests that no one is going to do anything. After the death of a skier hit by a snowmobile at Vail a few years ago it's irresponsible for VR not to cite these morans.

If Vail Resorts wants Keystone to be for boarders only they need to stop advertising it as a family area.

BTW, Keystone has no "contact us" to log a complaint.

 

[Little Lightning]

SuZieCoyote, I can't find the comments on the Keystone Facebook page. Were they deleted?

 

[SuZieCoyote]

Comments

The comments were November 7th at 2:29PM in response to "Thanks to everyone who came out......" There were 84 comments on the thread. You will see my "white hair" on display...

SuZ

 

[abc]

Cut and paste the relavant comment and e-mail it to all the ski megazines! And suggest Keystone would be a great teenager playground but not so great as a family resort.

Then e-mail and inform Keystone what you've done.

You'll quickly find out what Keystone REALLY want to cater to.

 

[Little Lightning]

Thanks, I didn't look that far back.

Summit Daily letters to the editor regarding Keystone.

https://www.summitdaily.com/article/20091129/LETTER/911299998/1025&parentprofile=1058

https://www.summitdaily.com/SECTION/&Profile=1025&ParentProfile=1058

 

[PowLizard]

People in general seem to have no consideration of others which translates into an utter lack of awareness of their surroundings. And it's not just kids....these poor kids are learning it from their parents.

I spent 5 years volunteer patrolling at a mountain that didn't want us patrollers scaring away the much-needed customers so we had zero pass-pulling authority. And everyone knew it. But every once in a while you do get a justice day. One day the top was too windy & drifted so everyone had to offload the t-bar a couple of towers down, below the last steep pitch. The tween boarders kept sitting just above the offload point (in the t-track) putting their boards on and generally not doing much. I kept telling them it was the wrong place to be and that someone was going to get hit by a t-bar (and avoided the urge to hold onto the t just a little bit longer before letting go). Well, wouldn't you know it, halfway through the day one of the kids that gave me lip got nailed right in the head. It took a lot to not laugh and rather than say "I told you so", I just asked the kid "so how'd THAT happen!" in front of all his friends. No lip & no problems after that (well, at least on the t-bar).

 

[Little Lightning]

Wow, read the comments, seems like some were deleted though. One guy even admitted he "jumps slow signs".

Suz, you really hit the nail on the head. Vail resorts is setting themselves up for a huge lawsuit and the behavior of these "macho men" is chasing the real skiers and boarders away.

 

[Little Lightning]

I agree that some are clueless about their surroundings but some of this behavior seems purposeful. How can you run into a skier or boarder and not realize it? The guy at Keystone last week was 3" from the tips of my skis and looking at me. A couple of years ago a boarder skied into me, we were locked edges, my chin was almost touching his chest. He made no effort to stop or ski away. I finally edged my skis, turned uphill and sat down. He went off down the hill. No word of surprise, sorry, I didn't see you, nothing. Same with the guy last week, acted totally innocent.

Keystone was not crowded last week, but if I stayed on one side to avoid them they were skiing into me anyway or coming between me and the trees. At times I skied with my arms out to my sides and poles pointing straight out.

Both incidences happened with no other skiers on the runs so no witnesses. Both runs were very wide with plenty of space. So it makes me wonder how such incidents can happen. It makes no sense to me.

 

[abc]

That's when poles come in handy. They can be used as offensive weapons!

 

[MaineSkiLady]

If this is evolving into another "skier=good vs. snowboarder=bad" discussion, I will have to add that I personally know a snowboarder ( and very well), older than this discussed group, who shares this perception.

Keystone was the last of the summit resorts to allow snowboarding, if anyone else remembers. 96-97, I believe? (Breck was long the first, and, arguably, still the best) Aforementioned snowboarder believes that the creation of Area 51 was the impetus to get more riders to Keystone. It's a park which he gives mixed reviews. But he has noticed a lot of this B-S as well. Especially after dark.

 

[SuZieCoyote]

Ski VS Board

I don't think it is a skier vs boarder issue - there are yahoos in both categories. My *perception* (perhaps not based in reality, I don't know) though, is that the boarders sometimes have less control. Boarders jump more and frequently in blind areas. In the case where I was hit, a skier, even a beginner, could have easily avoided me. The boarder came like lightening, straight down the hill and just seemed to be unable to make a detour of even a foot or so. I could easily be seen from above, so it was a case of being out-of-control. Also, an irreverent 'tude seems to be part of the boarder culture. At the same time, some of the best and most considerate people I've met on the mountain are young boarders, so it is difficult to generalize. My observation is that ski or board, it is young males 15-25 who seem to be the worst.

Keystone, I'm sure, is grappling with how to handle their clientele in a way that doesn't alienate customers. The a** who called me a bitch doesn't reflect their views, I'm sure, so I don't really hold them responsible. I responded in kind (being a big girl who can generally take care of herself). Someone did call the guy on his objectionable post and I'd like to think it was a Keystone rep who called him on it, but I don't know. I can't imagine they do not have anyone keeping up with their own facebook entries. I wouldn't recommend they censor posts, in any case.

Yes, some objectionable posts were later deleted by posters who had a change of heart, a sudden burst of intelligence or, at least, sobered up.

 

[Slidergirl]

I've seen some stupid behavior this year here at PCMR. 2 guys jumped the "SLOW" sign right in front of the entry to the lift maze. Fortunately, one of the ski patrollers was at the maze, so I told him which guys did it and he went over and yanked their tickets. I had a patroller take down the names of 2 kids who decided it would be fun to ski down a closed run that had all the snowblowers going on it (those blowers have open manholes around them and if you don't see them, well, it could be nasty). I also called in 3 guys who were trying to jump off one of the huge piles of snow above the superpipe (all a closed area). Like none of us could see them up there...
Unfortunately, I think all places get their share of what I call "snot-nosed locals." Riders or skiiers, they just care about themselves. They've been around for decades. Just like everything else, it always seems like it's getting worse.

 

[Kiragirl]

That's when poles come in handy. They can be used as offensive weapons!

right on