Since when...

[RockiesGirl]

... did skiers/riders forget (choose to ignore?) some of these most basic Skier Code rules?

• Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
• People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.
• You must not stop where you obstruct a trail or are not visible from above.

On a busy holiday weekend at Keystone, CO, these three rules were CONSISTENTLY broken.

These are common-sense rules but especially pertinent on overcrowded slopes. Safety on the slopes is everyone's responsibility. Ski safely - not only for yourself, but for others as well.

Know The Code. It's Your Responsibility.

Please people, take care out there this season and respect the code, for your sake and for everyone else's safety.

OK... done venting!

 

[Little Lightning]

A couple of weeks ago at A-Basin a newbie boarder crossed from Ramrod to High Noon and continued into the center of the run.. She looked downhill the entire time, never once glancing uphill to see if anyone was coming. I told her she needed to look before entering the run. Her response, "it was my responsibility to avoid her"! Fortunately, it wasn't crowded and I saw her coming across so I could avoid her. Her response bothered me because she saw no reason to take responsibility for herself.

 

[SnowHot]

I've noticed a decline in acknowledgement of the code over the years, but mostly I notice the decline among the younger crowd that has been educated by their peers. Most often, those who are educated by their parents(or the like) and/or pros(instructors) will acknowledge the code.

Like Little Lightening, I find that offering advice to those on the hill rarely makes a positive impression.

 

[SkiBam]

Yes, I totally agree with the lack of knowledge/courtesy/safe skiing and boarding on the slopes. There's no way the average person makes any difference at all by admonishing people. I've been run into and when I told the person that they were responsible for avoiding me, they looked at me as if I were nuts.

I'd love to see much more ski patrol presence - and I'd like to see the patrol actually stop skiers/boarders who need to be educated and really make it clear what the rules are. Just like the presence of cops on the highway encourages drivers to slow down, so too would lots of patrollers handing out advice (for a start), then perhaps a warning, then (as a last resort) pulling tickets serve to educate people and result in much safer skiing for everyone.

Perhaps the only way this will happen is that we all make a concerted effort to write, phone, email or speak to resort management and the patrol and make our views known.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

There has been considerable online discussion on ski/ride forums about the 2 aspects of the code that are seemingly contradictory:

• Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
• People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.

Any thoughts? Have heard arguments - on-slope, even - from those who claim that the (blind, didn't look uphill or yield) merge made them the downhill skier/rider, therefore the uphill skier was responsible.

It really isn't concise enough, IMHO.

 

[Severine]

There has been considerable online discussion on ski/ride forums about the 2 aspects of the code that are seemingly contradictory:
Any thoughts? Have heard arguments - on-slope, even - from those who claim that the (blind, didn't look uphill or yield) merge made them the downhill skier/rider, therefore the uphill skier was responsible.

It really isn't concise enough, IMHO.

Definitely ambiguous. However, it's a lot easier to watch a downhill skier already on the slope than to anticipate someone zooming in from an offshoot without warning.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

But those zooming in from off-shoots, etc., will always use the "I was the downhill skier" excuse.

 

[Severine]

But those zooming in from off-shoots, etc., will always use the "I was the downhill skier" excuse.

I know what you're saying. I wondered about it, too, when I was a new skier.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Another major pet peeve: those who proceed after having stopped or fallen, without ever looking uphill to see who's coming. They just.....go.....

 

[Jilly]

Last trip to BC, which was a few year ago, they actually had RCMP presence on the slopes. Now they weren't dressed in red, but they had a official suit. They were stopping speeding skiers and some actually got "tickets".

Tremblant has "speed police". Their suits say "Securite" on them. I'm not sure what power they have other than yelling and actually stopping people. I hope they could pull passes or something.

 

[SkiBam]

Last trip to BC, which was a few year ago, they actually had RCMP presence on the slopes. Now they weren't dressed in red, but they had a official suit. They were stopping speeding skiers and some actually got "tickets".

Tremblant has "speed police". Their suits say "Securite" on them. I'm not sure what power they have other than yelling and actually stopping people. I hope they could pull passes or something.

That's right. I too recall seeing the RCMP at (I think) Big White. But re the Tremblant "Sècuritè" people, I can't recall ever seeing them. Maybe they're not out during the week? Whatever, I'll say it again that some kind of presence (with some kind of authority) is needed on the slopes.

 

[skieuse]

There has been considerable online discussion on ski/ride forums about the 2 aspects of the code that are seemingly contradictory:
Any thoughts? Have heard arguments - on-slope, even - from those who claim that the (blind, didn't look uphill or yield) merge made them the downhill skier/rider, therefore the uphill skier was responsible.

It really isn't concise enough, IMHO.

How about:
try not to hit or be hit
OR
avoid colliding
?

Seems so simple, yet so hard for so many...

 

[Little Lightning]

This mornings letter to the editor in the Summit Daily has a complaint about the behavior of skiers at Keystone. I was telling my friend who is a level 1 ski instructor at about the letter and he told me this story which happened over the weekend.

He said he was working with his guests on a magic carpet lift and a snowboarder, who was teaching his girlfriend to board, kept cutting in line in front of others waiting to use the magic carpet. My friend told the guy that he should wait his turn like everyone else. The guy got rather huffy and stated that for what HE paid for a lift ticket he saw no reason why he should wait in line. My friend said that his "guests" paid a lot more to be there than he did and he was sure they didn't appreciate others cutting in front of them.

The guy made a snide remark about how much money Keystone was making and questioned whether my friends guests were getting their money's worth from an "overweight, overaged" ski instructor.

The guy made a point of following my friend up the magic carpet. My friend, not wanting a confrontation, said very loudly to the lift op at the top, now the "ski patrol's number is" and he cited the no. The guy and his friend disappeared and he didn't see him the rest of the lesson.

 

[abc]

This happened this morning:

It's the first day after the holiday and everybody is heading back to work, trying to be on time, I presume. But for whatever the reason, a lot of people don't have their MetroCard (for the subway) with them. So there's a fairly long line at the ticket machine, about 30 strong! I was one of them and resigned myself to the possibility of a 10 minute wait (only 4 ticket machine).

A young woman (20 something) walked right passed the line and stood behind the person using one of the machine. Nobody said a thing. When that person finished with the machine, the queue jumper simply took a step forward and got her ticket ahead of everyone else!

10 years ago, there would have been multiple voices telling her to go to the back of the line. Not a single one today! They'd rather wait longer instead. I've also seen that more and more often on lift lines. Queue jumpers were tolerated. So what's the reason not to jump the queue again???

I was too far back to even be heard, never mind any way to stop her. I turned around and made eye contact with the person standing besides me. He noded. Seeing no one did anything to stop the queue jumper, we both did the only thing we would in the situation. We each walked right up to the machine just like she did. I bought my ticket and left.

The rest of the line said nothing. They all continued waiting...

I think something had changed in this country. I don't know what it is but this kind of behavior is now tolerated routinely. Maybe that's why the younger generation don't follow rules any more?

 

[Little Lightning]

Well, no more Keystone for me at least until there is enough snow for the Outback to open.

First run down Schoolmarm a boarder skied way to close to me then crossed in front of my friend and tried to jump in front of him.

A couple more runs down the frontside with unpredictable boarders and inexperienced skiers straight lining down the runs.

Mozart was open and looked pretty deserted so we tried there. By this time I was looking over my shoulder with every turn. The run was clear no one within site of me and I was turning to the left when this boarder whizzed around me missing the tips of my skis by approx 3"!

I screamed a few unsavory words at him and he did stop but far enough below that I really couldn't talk to him. He gave me this sign and went on.

Later in the day a guest sevices employee asked me to do a survey and man did she get an earful, from all 3 of us. We all told her we were tired of being racing gates for the boarders.

BTW, Keystone's lift sales were down 21% last year. Could this type of behavior be the reason?

 

[jaydog]

I wish there were enough patrollers at any given time to have the kind of presence it would take to put a stop to that kind of behavior. Unfortunately, we can't be everywhere at once, but anyone we do catch gets dealt with appropriately.

As for looking uphill prior to merging versus downhill skier having the right of way, I look at it this way: it's like making a right turn while you're driving: you make sure the way is clear before pulling out. Whereas if you're driving along, and there's a slower vehicle driving in the lane in front of you, you change lanes to pass it.

JMHO, for what it's worth.

The time I was in a collision, I was hit from behind by a skier, who, luckily, was incredibly apologetic and fully admitted it was his fault.

 

[SnowHot]

This mornings letter to the editor in the Summit Daily has a complaint about the behavior of skiers at Keystone. I was telling my friend who is a level 1 ski instructor at about the letter and he told me this story which happened over the weekend.

He said he was working with his guests on a magic carpet lift and a snowboarder, who was teaching his girlfriend to board, kept cutting in line in front of others waiting to use the magic carpet. My friend told the guy that he should wait his turn like everyone else. The guy got rather huffy and stated that for what HE paid for a lift ticket he saw no reason why he should wait in line. My friend said that his "guests" paid a lot more to be there than he did and he was sure they didn't appreciate others cutting in front of them.

The guy made a snide remark about how much money Keystone was making and questioned whether my friends guests were getting their money's worth from an "overweight, overaged" ski instructor.

The guy made a point of following my friend up the magic carpet. My friend, not wanting a confrontation, said very loudly to the lift op at the top, now the "ski patrol's number is" and he cited the no. The guy and his friend disappeared and he didn't see him the rest of the lesson.

Well, no more Keystone for me at least until there is enough snow for the Outback to open.

First run down Schoolmarm a boarder skied way to close to me then crossed in front of my friend and tried to jump in front of him.

A couple more runs down the frontside with unpredictable boarders and inexperienced skiers straight lining down the runs.

Mozart was open and looked pretty deserted so we tried there. By this time I was looking over my shoulder with every turn. The run was clear no one within site of me and I was turning to the left when this boarder whizzed around me missing the tips of my skis by approx 3"!

I screamed a few unsavory words at him and he did stop but far enough below that I really couldn't talk to him. He gave me this sign and went on.

Later in the day a guest sevices employee asked me to do a survey and man did she get an earful, from all 3 of us. We all told her we were tired of being racing gates for the boarders.

BTW, Keystone's lift sales were down 21% last year. Could this type of behavior be the reason?

While I agree with you that there is a bit of a madhouse on the frontside of Keystone, and probably wouldn't like skiing it as the Keystone zoo this time of year(I've never been there this time of year) I think Keystone Ski Patrol does a pretty decent job of handling situations that are either seen by them or reported.

True Story:
My first day at Keystone a few years ago, my husband was a bit nervous. He had a terrible experience with Altitude sickness the day before and wasn't sure how day 2 was going to go so he was staying close to me. At one point he was feeling a bit better so he zoomed past me, cut me off and laughed as I fell. I took this as a good sign that he was loosening up, but the ski patroller who witnessed the incident approached me to make sure I was okay and asked me if I wanted hi to pull "that guy's" Lift ticket

Of course I said no, but looking back, I think the patroller and I could have had some fun with that.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Little Lightning, when it gets this exasperating and frustrating, it probably is best to walk away. Eventually - hopefully SOON! - you will have the option of more open terrain. I know someone who used to work at Keystone and fully shared your perceptions of higher incidences of bad behavior there. Additionally, there seemed to be (coincidentally? Or not?) bad driving behavior in/around the resort.

At least you will have more terrain options. Here in the east, the front side of Keystone would be the equivalent of a good-sized Eastern resort for acreage....with proximity to mega-major cities. And curiously, there are some resorts (not all, thank goodness) that just seem to be magnets for bad behavior, lack of courtesy, disregard for the responsibility code (if they even know what it is), etc.

Look at what happened to our own Swamp Dog last winter! Hit deliberately, not once but TWICE, then “left for dead” — and eventually, she required shoulder surgery for injuries sustained in that unfathomable collision. Un freakin believable. If I was presented with similar circumstances, I really don’t know that I would have any continued interest in this sport.

There really is a limit to how much and what ski patrol can do. Many eastern resorts now have teams of “ambassadors” who do their best to make a presence with regard to some of this.

Just wondering how much of this might be the result of the very affordable Epic Pass. ?? There was previously a pass like this in the east, via ASC/American Skiing Corporation (now long defunct), that had disastrous results in terms of crowds and on-slope issues at some of their offered resorts. (again, not all)

 

[Robyn]

I don't think this is because of the Epic Pass. If anything the Epic has pulled skiers from Keystone and Breck to Vail and Beaver Creek. I'd be willing to bet most of the offenders at Keystone are either Colorado or Summit passholders. I learned a few years ago to stay away from Keystone during early season. It just doesn't have a good way to handle large amounts of crowds on few lifts. And with the face coming into River Run it gets even scarier.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

^^^ Not altogether sure of pass structure out there, but nonetheless, the proliferation of multi-resort affordable passes has probably upped the number of passholders by quite a bit (or has this always been the case there? ). The many-multi-resort pass that started around 04-05 out here brought tons more passholders into the equation in the east and truly was the start of the "glut." Since the break-up of the conglomerate and sale of resorts to other owners in 07, this has spread out and diminished - SOMEWHAT - at some resorts. But not others, which continue to be very much like early-season front side Keystone. Except all season...