Pissed off ski patrollers

[gardenmary]

Dang, that'll teach me to think I know what's going on. I've lost track, too, and at the moment I'm exchanging emails about a few cases with jurisdictional issues.

Still, although Canada is generally a saner place than the US regarding people's rights, I don't know about employment or liability law there. So never mind--I'm probably wrong.

Sorry!

Dude w/his friends at Daddy's ski resort: Sunshine Village, in Canada (Banff area).

Marcus the rope-ducker and debt-dodger: Crystal Mountain, WA.

Both basically cut out of the same piece of cloth. Schmucks.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Both basically cut out of the same piece of cloth. Schmucks.

Expected some legal terminology, so that single word caught me off guard. :ROTF:
However....completely, totally agree.
Book 'em, Dano.

 

[gardenmary]

Expected some legal terminology, so that single word caught me off guard. :ROTF:
However....completely, totally agree.
Book 'em, Dano.

LOL, that reminds me, I gotta remember to watch Hawai'i Five-O on Mondays! Islands fix vicariously through TV.

 

[litterbug]

Dude w/his friends at Daddy's ski resort: Sunshine Village, in Canada (Banff area).

Marcus the rope-ducker and debt-dodger: Crystal Mountain, WA.

Both basically cut out of the same piece of cloth. Schmucks.

Shlemazels, more likely. Doesn't sound as satisfying but probably more accurate.

 

[gardenmary]

Shlemazels, more likely. Doesn't sound as satisfying but probably more accurate.

True that! So funny how every language/culture has a plethora of terms for obnoxious people.

 

[geargrrl]

Schlamazel is usually, "the unlucky guy". This goes with schlimeil, one who bungles things ( the guy who spills the soup and guy who gets spilled on)
Schmuck is more "the jerk", idiot, contemptible person ( or a d*ck)
Putz is the same as schmuck but worse.

 

[Serafina]

Putz, I think, is the discarded by-product of a bris.

 

[gardenmary]

Putz, I think, is the discarded by-product of a bris.

See what a useful site this is? You learn the most interesting stuff.

Anyway, what were we talking about?

 

[Serafina]

Anyway, what were we talking about?

Jerks who duck the lines and refuse to acknowledge their role in putting ski patrollers at risk while executing the rescues of jerks who duck lines... I think "putz" is appropriate here.

 

[geargrrl]

Putz, I think, is the discarded by-product of a bris.

depends what your mother taught you

 

[gardenmary]

Jerks who duck the lines and refuse to acknowledge their role in putting ski patrollers at risk while executing the rescues of jerks who duck lines... I think "putz" is appropriate here.

Agreed, dictionary version notwithstanding!

 

[Kim Kircher]

Jerks who duck the lines and refuse to acknowledge their role in putting ski patrollers at risk while executing the rescues of jerks who duck lines... I think "putz" is appropriate here.

Whatever you want to call him, he didn't exactly make our day. Having said that, as a ski patroller, I most often find appreciative, wonderful people on the slopes. Just yesterday a man walked up to me and said "thank you for all your hard work." It's guests like this that make it all worthwhile. Thanks for all the discussion on this topic--we patrollers love the support.

 

[litterbug]

I got into this discussion somewhere, and here's the online consensus, for what it's worth:

Putz: a milder term for penis; usually an obnoxious (or noxious) person.
Schmuck: a penis; someone with power who bullies others.
Shlemiel: someone who's always making mistakes or looking dumb.
Shlemazel: someone who recklessly makes mistakes which hurt others.
A mensch: a real person; someone who deliberately chooses to do the right thing.

People who deliberately hurt others are schmucks; noone here made a mistake, deliberately or not; they all did exactly what they meant to do. The guys with power here are are schmucks; the employees, so far as I can tell, are menschik.

 

[ScottishSki]

This is interesting. Although I now live in the US, I'd never really considered that the ski patrol might charge for rescue outside the area.

I kind of have mixed views on this, as in the UK, ski patrol services within the boundary are free. If you were to have an accident outside the boundary, you could well be rescued by the Mountain Rescue Team (who are volunteers), or the RAF or Royal Navy Search and Rescue, or possibly even the Coastguard. The ski patrol would often assist. All of which would involve the use of teams of people, dogs, and quite possibly helicopters. There is no charge made for such rescues, and there is also no requirement to have any insurance. Whilst donations to the mountain rescue are often made, it is in no way compulsory. No one would be left to die because they couldn't pay for rescue. Could that actually happen in the US? If so, what's the answer - compulsory insurance or something? I guess I assumed such things would be covered by medical cover.

Incidentally, when you ski over here, do you ski with your medical insurance card in your pocket? It's not something I've ever really thought about, but maybe I should.

 

[gardenmary]

This is interesting. Although I now live in the US, I'd never really considered that the ski patrol might charge for rescue outside the area.

I kind of have mixed views on this, as in the UK, ski patrol services within the boundary are free. If you were to have an accident outside the boundary, you could well be rescued by the Mountain Rescue Team (who are volunteers), or the RAF or Royal Navy Search and Rescue, or possibly even the Coastguard. The ski patrol would often assist. All of which would involve the use of teams of people, dogs, and quite possibly helicopters. There is no charge made for such rescues, and there is also no requirement to have any insurance. Whilst donations to the mountain rescue are often made, it is in no way compulsory. No one would be left to die because they couldn't pay for rescue. Could that actually happen in the US? If so, what's the answer - compulsory insurance or something? I guess I assumed such things would be covered by medical cover.

Incidentally, when you ski over here, do you ski with your medical insurance card in your pocket? It's not something I've ever really thought about, but maybe I should.

I don't know as anyone would be left to die - but your lift ticket has a contract on the back, and you assume the risk of your actions (meaning you have responsibility and pay for the consequences of said actions). The rules and boundary information are posted prominently at every ski area I've ever been to. "Ducking the rope" is not an action that only occurs on the slopes - if you duck a rope at, say, the movie theatre, you've done something you're not supposed to do. That is the standard assumption for the action - it's not ok. The lift ticket/contract says if you break the rules and we have to bail your sorry behind out, you pay. When you buy the ticket, you become a party to that contract and you are bound by it, so you need to be able to pay up if (heaven forbid) that should become necessary. If you can't pay, you can't play.

In all the training we've done for outdoorsmanship in Scouts it's been hammered into us, over and over and over, that we cannot go into the wilderness unprepared. Our lives are at risk in the wilderness - some time spent in basic preparation and training has saved and will continue to save lives. For backcountry skiing, this means all kinds of things - avalanche/beacon training, first aid, navigation & orienteering, cold weather survival - there's a lot to think about, and that's just a few.

I think the increased availability of "extreme sports" video footage gives some people the idea that you can just head out to the nearest snow-covered cliff and go for it. The videos rarely (if ever) show the team looking for avalanche likelihood, making sure the first aid kit is packed, and so on. It seems that some folks think that the backcountry is just like the ski resort except you have to do some hiking to get to the gnarly runs - maybe because that's what they see on the YouTube videos. They basically are refusing to think the whole thing through. That's how the 2003 Cedar fire started in San Diego County - a hunter went out for deer COMPLETELY unprepared (literally, all he had with him was his firearm, ammo, cigarettes/matches and a cell phone with a low battery). He got lost, and because he didn't have a signal mirror he started a signal fire.....nearly 300,000 acres and 2500 homes went up in flames, and people died. THAT level of stupidity should be, and was, rewarded with jail time.

And whether one's dumb-a$$ moves would be covered by insurance is a very big question. If you have knowingly violated the rules of a particular ski area, and that information gets passed to your insurance company (if you have insurance) you may not be covered; it depends on your particular policy.

I ski with my insurance card on me - if, God forbid, anything happened the medical personnel would eventually find it, and it would make the whole process way, way easier if they can bill the insurance company directly.

Ultimately, the only way to keep the insane litigation and excessive rules off the slopes is for each person to take responsibility for themselves. It sounds so easy, typing it out like that! So when you have what my high school principal called "spoilers" who don't want to be responsible, everyone gets the shaft.

 

[LilaBear]

This is interesting. Although I now live in the US, I'd never really considered that the ski patrol might charge for rescue outside the area.

Incidentally, when you ski over here, do you ski with your medical insurance card in your pocket? It's not something I've ever really thought about, but maybe I should.

Another UK'er in the US. Oh yes I have my medical insurance card in my wallet.... and used it skiing - BIG time. Currently I have reverted to being a non-US resident and have got season long travel insurance - and carry the contacts and policy numbers in my wallet.

In the UK you are covered by the emergency services and do not need to have insurance or pay for the cost of rescue. However, if you ski in Europe you never go without travel insurance. And, in most cases if you trigger an Alpine rescue off piste or requiring a helicopter there will be a charge - usually met by your insurance company (in the meantime they will hold your ski/boarding equipment). For the Basic Medical services the European countries have an agreement that they will provide cover for foreign nationals on a reciprocal arrangement, and usually you have to get your E111 before you leave the UK. Your travel insurance will repatriate you in order to receive longer term care back in the UK.

In Colorado you can purchase a fishing licence from the Store REI, and pay an additional premium to get ski rescue cover (bit vague on the details, I did it 3 years ago - it lasts for 5 years). The licence and additional premium are very very affordable, I think under $20.

In summary - yes, very different ski environment and arrangements. Ask people who ski in your local area what the expectations and arrangements are, and do carry your medical insurance card - you might not be concious or able to wait to complete the details should you need it.

 

[Serafina]

Incidentally, when you ski over here, do you ski with your medical insurance card in your pocket? It's not something I've ever really thought about, but maybe I should.

I carry my driver's license, a credit card, my insurance card, and a small amount of cash. Always, when I ski. I figure this constitutes emergency planning for most likely scenarios. The remaining likely scenarios would be covered by having my cell phone, but I don't get any signal up in the mountains.