Mixed level group lessons- yea or nay?

[diymom]

I have had both good and bad experiences in a mixed level lesson. I find that it takes a combination of group compatibility (what does each individual hope to get out of it) and instructor compatibility (not all instructors are able/ willing to make a varied group work.) Sounds obvious when you put it down in black and white, but not so easy to pull off when it comes down to it. Most group privates recommend similar levels and advise that they will be teaching to the level of the lowest participant, and for good reason. But I just came across Powder Pals at Tamarack in Idaho, where the intention is a mixed group so family and friends can both explore and learn together. It sounds a bit like guided skiing with a side of instruction. You can even have a mix of skiers and boarders. I am intrigued.

Would you want to do a mixed level lesson? Have you done one before, and would you do it again? Instructors- same questions, but from a teaching perspective.

 

[MissySki]

I’d prefer not to have majorly mixed levels for a lesson personally. I don’t like being the one holding up a group and I don’t like being in a group that is too slow for me either. Sometimes it’s fine, like if we are on groomers probably not a big deal depending what we are working on. But if you start getting off piste or if there is a powder day and people are really mismatched I think that can be a big bummer. No one wants to spend a lesson standing around waiting all day.

I’m happy to ski with widely varying levels in almost any situation in general, but in a group lesson I much prefer a somewhat good match of abilities and goals in a group. Like for ski week at Taos, our group was so well matched overall for both abilities and goals, it was awesome and made me a believer in their ski off system as it worked so well in our case.

 

[diymom]

As long as the higher level skiers are fully aware of what they are getting themselves into, and don't mind either taking turns with the instructor on parallel runs or revisiting drills and skills that they already have down, I don't think I'd feel like I'm holding anyone up. And if I happened to be in a group where I'm the higher level skier, I don't mind. I'm still at a level where going back to basics never hurts. But again everyone in the group needs to enter into it knowingly.

On the other hand, if it is a time that I really want to work on a specific terrain, I agree that that I would prefer a fairly homogeneous group. I don't think I would sign up for a seasonal program that is super mixed.

 

[MissySki]

To me it’s not the drills being done so much as the pace that I have found as a disconnect before. Plenty of drills are applicable to varying levels and that is fine, I just have been in groups where one or two of us is way down and waiting a long time for others to get down. I have also experienced being the person pulling up the far rear in tree skiing groups which I really disliked having others waiting on me. It really depends how big the discrepancy is. On certain days I will absolutely watch who is going to which groups and choose accordingly in my seasonal program. The last weekend was the big powder one here, and I really wanted to ski with the instructor I had been with all season.. but once we saw the makeup of who was going to her group even she encouraged me to go with a stronger group because no one wants to stand around on those sorts of days and we would not have been able to do the pace and terrain desired due to the makeup of what the group would have been. I did and it was the right choice, had a blast but did miss skiing with her.

 

[BlizzardBabe]

What others have said. HOWEVER, I think mixed level groups work much better with women than with a mixed gender group. Men tend to be openly impatient and critical and women tend to support one another w/o letting their impatience (if any) show on their sleeves.

 

[marzNC]

The mixed ability lessons I've done in the last 4-5 years out west have been with 1-3 friends. Essentially semi-private lessons with very experienced instructors, usually PSIA Level 3 with 20+ years of experience. Before that I'd done a few at my home hill. As long as the most experienced skiers know what to expect, it's worked out well. Personally I learn a lot when an instructor is covering a fundamental skill with a less experienced skier.

Ironically the first mixed ability lesson I had at Alta with Bill (in his 60s) was all on groomers. He was a much better skier than I was back then (he was skiing advanced terrain in high school in Colorado) . The instructor asked a few times before we started to make sure I was okay not skiing the fresh powder that was around that day. Bill had a stance from skiing straight skis that required going back to basics. It was the start of his journey that led to him doing a Taos Ski Week annually. Two days later, we did another lesson with the same instructor that was a powder lesson that was geared more towards getting me to start learning to ski deep powder in trees.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

It depends on a lot of factors, including goals for the day, and patience levels. As an instructor we can absolutely find very challenging drills for the advanced skiers to practice on a green, and have them lap us as we work with the slower wedging beginners. I have had very successful mixed ability lessons and some that were not at all, mostly because of the participants and their willingness to be open to the experience.

If it is a regular group that meets many times a season it may require a few runs solo for each participant if there is a desire to try harder runs that are not safe for those at a different level. Ideally the differences are slim enough that blue groomed runs are skiable by everyone in the group. Then it allows for maybe some bumps or trees along the edge and lots of drills of varying difficulty on the groomer.

Ability splits can sometimes be easier to overcome from a teaching perspective than learning styles and student wishes. I have a much harder time with similar abilities where one really wants the tech and spending time on perfecting a skill through drills on groomers and another has no capacity for the tech talk and learns by following and watching in challenging terrain.

For certain an instructor with a fair bit of experience will help a lot. There is not always a logical answer to who that person will be for each group. Where I work private instructors are likely more used to dealing with splits than group instructors who typically can call in a colleague when the split is too significant, but this probably varies by ski area.

Powder Pals sounds like fun and it is quite clear what the product will deliver from the onset. Many tactical components of skiing are the same for snowboarders, especially as the ability levels increase. I have had a lot of fun helping snowboarders think through harder terrain tactics in my skier based private lessons.

Looking at the Tamarack school page, it seems that this is their approach to selling half and full day private lessons, as their regular privates are only one or two If the people in the powder pals lesson don't have fun or get along it is not up to the instructor to bring in a colleague as would be the case in a regular group lesson when the splits are too big or personalities incompatible.

 

[diymom]

I do think Tamarack is onto something with this. Imagine going on a ski trip as a family. It's your first day at a larger resort. There's a bit of a split in abilities, and you know the lower level skiers could benefit from some instruction, but you would rather spend time together as a family than divide up into different lesson groups. It is the family vacation after all. Oh wait, here's a product that lets us stay together, and we will get to learn the mountain, know where to go on our own, and even skip any lines. And as a bonus we will get a little instruction thrown to help us enjoy our time here even more. Should we do the half day or the full day? Hmm, why don't sign up for the full day, we can do the easier stuff in the morning all together, and in the afternoon the lower level skiers will know where their favorite runs are to play around on their own while the higher level skiers go off to explore the more challenging stuff with the instructor. That should set us all up for a fun time on our vacation!

 

[Trailside Trixie]

Mixed is fine but too much variation between levels means the more advanced in the group don't get as much out of the lesson. My ladies clinic at butternut has been wonderful. I wound up with a group of ladies all similar in ability, so we ask the coordinator to be together every year and it works out great. There was a clinic at Magic this past season that was titled green to blue. I am friends with the instructors so heard about how it went. They had several students extremely varied in ability from from one who was most comfortable on the magic carpet to more proficient green level skiers. They ended up splitting the group and meeting back up from time to time. I just think that's the best way to handle that scenario. Too much of an ability split isn't fair to anyone.