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Low volume foot boot saga

The Ski Princess

Certified Ski Diva
I am following this thread with great interest, as I have what seems like 2 feet from 2 different individuals :doh::noidea: and always need infinitely more tweaking done to ONE boot and foot.

Carry on, I'm quite curious as to OP outcome on this!

Hi MSL, thanks so much for your interest and encouragement! It's so nice to have veteran contributors like yourself and Jilly showing us the way. You may have "2 feet from 2 different individuals" (think mom and dad) but it sure seems they did a good job tweaking you! :wink:
 

F&M

Certified Ski Diva
If neither boot passes the above test after all the adjustments, forget the custom liner... it's time to start trying other boots. One way or the other, stay positive and come back with a report! :smile:

Ski Princess--I cannot thank you enough for all of this information. The next chance I have to get to the shop is Wednesday, and I really want to ski on Thursday. I will ask them to do the adjustments and take the printout in to do the testing. But I have a feeling that the boots are just too roomy, and they won't pass the test. Then I guess I have to try to convince the shop to put me in a different boot yet again.

My frustration is that I was apparently using the wrong criteria to choose that boot in the first place, based largely on feedback from the boot fitter. There was a Lange boot that I looked at but at the time I thought it might be too snug (especially with the toe touch)--now I'm thinking it may have been the better choice, since it would pack out. Any thoughts on Lange boots re: low volume feet?
 

The Ski Princess

Certified Ski Diva
Ski Princess--I cannot thank you enough for all of this information. The next chance I have to get to the shop is Wednesday, and I really want to ski on Thursday. I will ask them to do the adjustments and take the printout in to do the testing. But I have a feeling that the boots are just too roomy, and they won't pass the test. Then I guess I have to try to convince the shop to put me in a different boot yet again.

My frustration is that I was apparently using the wrong criteria to choose that boot in the first place, based largely on feedback from the boot fitter. There was a Lange boot that I looked at but at the time I thought it might be too snug (especially with the toe touch)--now I'm thinking it may have been the better choice, since it would pack out. Any thoughts on Lange boots re: low volume feet?

Your welcome F&M. Like all boot manufacturers, Lange offers a variety of models that span from low to high volume feet. Reading back through your posts, I see where you said the Lange "felt awkward" in addition to concerns over shin bang and snugness, but you never identified the actual Lange model or shell size? Same with the initial Salomon you skied, what model/size? At the very least, it doesn't sound like either of these would have passed the "Fit Zone" test as outlined in the free PDF download from Biostance.

The reason I haven't given up on the size 23 Atomic Renu (and don't want you to) is because of some "clues" you've provided w/o knowing it -- First, they didn't hurt skiing (until you cranked the buckles); your foot wasn't "sliding" around when you tested the higher volume, less canted Salomon (which means over-canting IS a factor on the Atomic); and because of your statement, "I am somewhat flat-footed, to the point that I have a tracking knee injury" (this foot type almost always needs a HIGHER heel boot design like your Renu, combined with a LOWER heel binding design -- probably NOT what you were skiing on!)

Please let us know more about the Salomon and Lange models above and answer the following questions via post or direct message:

Skier Info:
Age
Height
Weight
What street shoe size and width do you normally wear?
Forefoot width (relative to heel): narrow, average or wide?
Heel bone width: narrow, average or wide?
Lower calf size: small, average or large?
Leg length (relative to torso): Short, average or long?
Bunions or other bony protrutions? Please list!

Skiing Profile:
How many days do you ski annually?
Which region or area do you ski the most?
In general, what terrain are you confident skiing now?
What terrain would you like to handle in the future?
Do you want to own one ski or a quiver?

Stay positive F&M. The solution to your equipment problems may not be as far off as you think. :smile:
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
Continuing to follow this thread with both fascination and appreciation. WOW to the skier info/type request per TSP - talk about service! :clap:

As someone who has had decades of on-off issues (but currently holding my own?? :noidea:), I found this to be quite interesting:
statement, "I am somewhat flat-footed, to the point that I have a tracking knee injury" (this foot type almost always needs a HIGHER heel boot design like your Renu, combined with a LOWER heel binding design -- probably NOT what you were skiing on!)
If this is truly the case, it explains some recent successes where I'm concerned (although I'm WELL beyond "somewhat") - something I couldn't quite put my finger on.

PLEASE keep contributing, both of you. I hope this ultimately becomes a true success story for OP, as there are undoubtedly dozens of members with similar issues (and many more lurkers/non-members!).
 

vanhoskier

Angel Diva
I want to add my canting experience to this thread too!

I have no specific foot problems, no special requirements, no complaints about boots ... this was my first experience with an actual bootfitting and I just wanted to make sure everything I've learned from this site was taken into consideration.

When I bought my boots, the bootfitter determined I needed minor-to-medium canting done to both boots. That's when I learned that canting is done by planing the soles of the boots. But these boots can not be planed. He said they could accomplish the same thing by adding shims to my skis. I didn't have my skis with me ... thankfully ... because when I got home and researched sole-planing and ski-shimming, I wasn't that thrilled with either approach. More research and I came across the "Sports Balance System", which amounts to shims that they put under the liners of the boots -- https://www.footfoundation.com.

This is not a panacea, but is another method of canting -- and one that felt right in my "gut" -- so I wanted to add this to the site's bootfitting body of knowledge.

Now, I have mild canting done by a wedge beneath the footbed. It seems to be working.
 

vanhoskier

Angel Diva
Any thoughts on Lange boots re: low volume feet?

My boots are Lange. What I found with the stock liners is that the new women's Langes are larger volume than models a few years back. My liners are now custom liners within a stock Lange shell.
 

Gloria

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
While we have a few boot people online here:

similiar issues but know that need minimal heel lift and minimal forward lean in the shell. So far the lange freeride 110, which I know is an older model is closest I know that matches. Hoping someone may be able to throw a couple others out there as well.

Thanks!
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
Now, I have mild canting done by a wedge beneath the footbed. It seems to be working.
Ditto, one boot only (the wacked foot). Incremental wedges have been the best solution for me thus far (i.e., start small, increase/back off if necessary). This in addition to custom insoles.
 

F&M

Certified Ski Diva
The Salomon was the Divine 5. I cannot remember the model of the Lange, it cost $400.


Skier Info:
Age 30
Height 5'4", petite build
Weight 120-125
What street shoe size and width do you normally wear? 6, normal width
Forefoot width (relative to heel): narrow, average or wide? average (I think)
Heel bone width: narrow, average or wide? narrow heel
Lower calf size: small, average or large? average (I think, boot fitter said the proportions were normal)
Leg length (relative to torso): Short, average or long? short
Bunions or other bony protrutions? Please list! Protruding navicular bone on right foot (the bootfitter did a punch for this, and also some other shaping for the ankle but I didn't quite understand the other modification)

Skiing Profile:
How many days do you ski annually? starting this year, no less than 20 days
Which region or area do you ski the most? Crystal Mountain, Washington
In general, what terrain are you confident skiing now? confident on blues, will try groomed blacks
What terrain would you like to handle in the future? plan on staying mostly on groomed but need to learn to ski powder (especially chopped up) and crud
Do you want to own one ski or a quiver? can only afford one ski right now

Thanks for all the help and encouragement! Unfortunately I won't be able to get the modifications you recommended until at least Thursday, maybe Friday (in which case I wouldn't be able to try them out until Monday). Boot fitter wants me to ski with current modifications first. :(
 

snowday

Certified Ski Diva
I also have low volume feet and I live in Chicago. We have very few ski shops with very limited selection of equipment. I remember that I tried Dalbello, Head Dream, Lange 100 and same Atomic and they all felt too large. I ended up working with a local boot fitter that measured me and helped me choose something online (from a store that accepted returns, just in case). I paid the boot fitter for the fitting $150 (guaranteed forever so I can go back whenever I need), but I bought the boots online way cheaper than they would have been in store.
I was in a hurry because my old boots were unusable and we were living for Colorado. I didn’t want to spend my vacation looking for boots…

Some divas recommended Salomon Scarlet (I don’t thing they still make this year), Salomon Instinct CS and Nordica Doberman. I tried first Nordica Doberman Pro 100, they were good fit but too short a shims. I couldn’t find either Salomon online at a good price so I ended up buying Nordica Doberman Aggressor 100. They are absolutely perfect fit for me but they are challenging. I can handle them but I cannot relax at all, It’s like they have a mind of theyr own. (I’m 35 years 5’5”, 120lb, advanced, I ski 30 days a year, my foot is narrowin front, narrow heel, medium instep, medium arch, medium calfs) Another thing, they say that under 15F they are very cold and the plastic gets very stiff. I didn’t ski with them on a very cold day, but I remember a Diva saying that she is owning them and love them but she will buy Salomon Instinct CS for the cold days and relaxing days. I tried this year both Salomon Scarlet and Instinct in Colorado and they both were quite a good fit.

Now I’m still working at the alignment. After I bought the boots, the bootfitter said that I’ll need insoles but first to ski few days so they’ll give in. I did those in Colorado at Surefoot, where they supposedly align you and have a computer read the map of your foot and you’ll have the perfect position. I skied just 2 days with them and they seemed fine. This was last year. This year, in Colorado again, the bottom of my right foot started to hurt each day a little more. The left foot was perfect. I went back at surefoot and they measure me while in boots and said I pronate on the right foot and wanted to shave my boot. I was unsure because they didn’t check the insoles and I thought the insoles were suppose to align me… They put some tape on the sole of the boot to mimic the canting. Well, the foot was hurting more. I was now starting to be aware of the alignment, I saw my right knee going toward inside while the left knee was aligned and I started to think that the insoles are not good.

Back in Chicago now, I went to my local bootfiter and he said that the surefoot insoles strategy is bad because they try to align changing the map of the buttom of your foot, so of course you hurt. He said that any adjustment should be done under un insole that follow the exact shape of your foot. Any divas have any thoughts about this insole/ canting?
I wanted to ski the next day and he didn’t have too much time but we’ll make un appointment to measure everything. Meanwhile he align me by adjusting the cuff and he agreed that I should put in some old semicustom insoles that I had in my old boots. I’m happy that the pain is gone so the surefoot insoles will hopefully go for a refund (somebody was asking how much, they were $220) And the alignment while not perfect was better than before. By alignment I mean not only that I see the knee going a litte inside, but also when I carve with the right leg I have to put more pressure thean when I carve with the left leg. I didn’t make yet the appointment, and I would appreciate any advice on what I should expect, or what I shouldn’t do (like is shaving my boots seems bad idea too me)…
 

2ski2moro

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Problem almost solved

Several Divas seeking help. It's good to know that I'm not the only one.

I'm back to the Salomon Idol 8s, this time in a 23.5. I found the boots at a store about 1.5 hours away and picked it up on Sunday.

My ski shop refunded my $$$ and said that they didn't want to hold me back waiting for them to possibly find a boot. They said that if I found one, they would support my boot tweaking, even if I found one elsewhere. How great is that?

This minute I put my foot in the boot, I knew it fit better. Then they heated the shell, the liner went back in (with my custom footbeds) and I stood in them until they cooled.

I skied them today and I DON'T HAVE SOLE PAIN (doin' the happy dance).:yahoo:

*****However, my left ankle hurts. I haven't been back to the shop yet. I can duplicate the pain when I am not wearing the boot by pronating my foot. I don't know if I can describe it, though. It is as if my inside ankle bone is rolling in (inside the boot) and I am bending or collapsing the outside of my ankle farther than it wants to go.

Is the positive canting of the cuff causing this? I feel like if I could get my knee over the arch of my foot instead of over the outside edge of my foot, I would be carving the hill with the best of them.

Can this be corrected on the Salomon Idol 8s?

And a note to MaineSkiLady, you have to try this heating of the Salomon boot shell to fit your funky feet. I have no red spots on my ankles or bunion or little toes. The tongue is really comfy on my shin. If I can fix this cant issue (or whatever is causing my ankle to hurt), I will have happy feet!!!
 

vanhoskier

Angel Diva
snowday;121002 I didn’t make yet the appointment said:
Different schools of thought on the canting thing, I'm finding out. SnowHot, who's currently skiing in Snowmass and probably too busy to post right now, had the bottom of her boots shaved and said she "feels like home" in her boots now. My were planed as well but may have contributed to a knee problem, and it was a real PITA to have them replaned, then have lifters screwed to the bottoms to adjust back to 0. I have some mild canting done beneath my insole and that seems to be working for me.

My guess would be that carving in one direction versus the other may feel different for a lot of people, because we simply aren't physiologically symmetrical on both sides. It may be a healthier thing to work on technique to make up for those differences we feel when skiing rather than mess with the inherent design of our bodies, unless that design is really holding us back or threatens injury. But, I'm not an exercise physiologist, nor a boot fitter, nor a physical therapist.
 

The Ski Princess

Certified Ski Diva
The Salomon was the Divine 5. I cannot remember the model of the Lange, it cost $400.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement! Unfortunately I won't be able to get the modifications you recommended until at least Thursday, maybe Friday (in which case I wouldn't be able to try them out until Monday). Boot fitter wants me to ski with current modifications first. :(

Your welcome F&M. The answers you provided really complete the picture and only confirm my previous recommendations. Don't be sad because the boot fitter wants you to first test his/her modifications. I'm sure you've both put a lot of time and effort into the fitting. Just make sure you ask and write down the model name of the demo or rental binding you use this time so we have all the facts.

Good luck.
 

F&M

Certified Ski Diva
Your welcome F&M. The answers you provided really complete the picture and only confirm my previous recommendations. Don't be sad because the boot fitter wants you to first test his/her modifications. I'm sure you've both put a lot of time and effort into the fitting. Just make sure you ask and write down the model name of the demo or rental binding you use this time so we have all the facts.

Good luck.

Thanks! Due to weather having its way with my ski plans, I will (hopefully) be skiing on Thursday and Friday.

In re-reading your post above, I realized I did not mention the shell size for the Salomon and Lange boots. They were both 23.0, same as the Atomics.
 

Elangirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I also have low volume feet---I have tried to wear Lange's, but the last few years they changed their last to 100mm and I am looking for a 97,mm.

I finally found Dalbello boots---I wear the Krysma which is the stiffist boot---the Storm is the next boot down. I love them---they have three buckles, so my foot is held in the heel pocket and my second and third buckles do not hit together. Both the Storm and the Krysma have ID liners which are heated for your feet---this is the best set up I have had for my skinny feet.
 

vanhoskier

Angel Diva
I also have low volume feet---I have tried to wear Lange's, but the last few years they changed their last to 100mm and I am looking for a 97,mm.

I finally found Dalbello boots---I wear the Krysma which is the stiffist boot---the Storm is the next boot down. I love them---they have three buckles, so my foot is held in the heel pocket and my second and third buckles do not hit together. Both the Storm and the Krysma have ID liners which are heated for your feet---this is the best set up I have had for my skinny feet.

A certain Bear over on Epic has suggesting me trying these boots, too, because of my feet. I'm anxious to give them a try sometime. I've heard great things.
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Also - the Black Diamong Shiva is an AT boot but you can swap the sole blocks to make it an alpine boot. And it is very low volume without being narrow in the forefoot. It has a tighter heel pocket than anything I have tried. Just wanted to throw that out there since it might get dismissed as an AT boot, but it's a solid alpine boot as well with a unique fit.

I know this thread is old but I saw this post and was intrigued. The BD Shiva is what I brought in earlier in the week and was told were too high volume for my feet. I think I have abnormally skinny ankles or something...
 

jaydog

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I know this thread is old but I saw this post and was intrigued. The BD Shiva is what I brought in earlier in the week and was told were too high volume for my feet. I think I have abnormally skinny ankles or something...

How are the Shivas working out for you? They sound like they might work for me...I've had boot fit problems due to a narrow, long foot, with a high arch, and small heel.

And based on this thread, I'm starting to wonder if I have canting issues, too.
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
How are the Shivas working out for you? They sound like they might work for me...I've had boot fit problems due to a narrow, long foot, with a high arch, and small heel.

And based on this thread, I'm starting to wonder if I have canting issues, too.

The foot shape they are based on is a narrow heel, wide forefoot. So if your foot is narrow in the forefoot too, they're probably going to be wide for you in that area.

They are - well, at least somewhat low volume (meaning in the forefoot) - I have medium arches and we had to do some tweaking while molding the liners so they don't squash the tops of my feet even when unbuckled. As seen by Pequinita's dilemma - low volume means different things to different people (and different bootfitters apparently). The reviews I've read say the Shiva is a low volume boot, but apparently that low volume is in the forefoot and heel width, not the ankle height. It looks like Pequinita needs less volume in the ankle area - meaning the top of the ankle - so the whole ankle pivot point is off for her.

There are so many possibilities for boot shapes and sizes - it's no wonder good bootfitters are so important.
 

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