How to get the most out of your ski lesson

[Jilly]

CSIA has 4 levels. Level 1 is 3+ days. There is an online portion. This has totally changed from when I took it, and it involves a lot more teaching kids. Level 2 is done in 2 parts and is assessed, no exam. Then the fun begins. Level 3 requires 3 days of training and then a 2 day module that is students choice. Exams consists of teaching and skiing. Teaching at that level is either bumps or dynamic parallel. In the past to take the 3 exams, you also needed coaching 1. They have dropped that requirement TG! Level 3 is where the examiners really weed out the want-a-bees. It's hard, its tough and you gotta know your stuff. Last set of exams at Tremblant last spring, saw only 2 or 3 out of 12 get it.

If you pass CSIA 4 you're a GOD!

Also in Canada a certified ski instructor is covered by insurance that CSIA gets. The clubs, hills and resorts have a basic policy, but it usually doesn't cover the instructors. So you need to be certified to teach. If you are not, then you're working with a certified instructor and considered an aide. I think this is where the PSIA and CSIA differ. Every instructor also has to do a recall every 3 years. That way you are kept up to date with new teaching methods.

Certification is the same in all regions. In fact my boot fitter was sent out west to do a level 2 course as they couldn't find enough course conductors to do them.

Besides ski instructor there is freestyle, adaptive (CADS), race coach, snowboard, snowboard race and nordic. There is usually some requirement for a level 1 or 2 to take those certifications.

 

[marzNC]

The other difference I've noticed between PSIA and CSIA is that in Canada some certification is required before someone is hired as an instructor. In the U.S., entry level instructors are hired without certification, get trained by a local trainer (usually PSIA), and then go for Level 1. Assuming they want to pursue PSIA certification. My understanding is that most people who take the Level 1 exam as a novice instructor will pass without much difficulty.

Bottom line is that understanding certification levels can be helpful for those who are thinking about private or semi-private lessons. I've had a few lessons from Level 2 instructors. They all skied quite well and had 10+ years of experience as instructors. But the difference in teaching experience compared to the Level 3 instructors was noticeable, especially because those lessons involved people of slightly different abilities (2-3 skiers). All the Level 3 instructors I've worked with are very good at making sure each student gets personal attention, even when everyone is doing the same drill.

I also think that if someone asks a ski school for a Level 3 instructor, even if one is not available, the ski school will try to pick an instructor with as much as experience as possible. An intermediate does not need a Level 3 instructor, but an intermediate who has a lesson with a Level 3 instructor (or equivalent teaching experience) will learn a lot in a short period of time. Plus if things do not work out, it's easier to go back to the ski school desk and complain (nicely). As compared to asking for "a good instructor" to start with. My understanding is that most ski schools will provide a comp (free) lesson at another time if there is a reasonable explanation why a lesson was not acceptable.

 

[marzNC]

A lot of us take lessons, so I'm wondering:

What do you think someone should know about ski lessons? Sure, there's important stuff like 'be aware of your true abilities going in' and 'have an idea for what you want to work on.' But are there other things that it would make sense to be aware of, either before you start or once you're in a class? What do you think it takes to get the most out of your ski lesson? And instructors, what do you recommend?

To get back to the original questions . . .

For a trip out west from the flatlands, consider the timing of a lesson. While it's good to have a lesson early in the trip, if you know that adjusting to the high altitude takes a day or two then perhaps plan for the lesson on the second ski day. If you are not a morning person, then look for a ski destination that offers afternoon group lessons if that's what you prefer.

At Alta, it's possible to schedule a semi-private or private for 2 hours, with the option of extending to 3 hours. That's handy when working with a new instructor or the weather is changing the day of a pre-scheduled lesson.

 

[climbingbetty]

The other difference I've noticed between PSIA and CSIA is that in Canada some certification is required before someone is hired as an instructor. In the U.S., entry level instructors are hired without certification, get trained by a local trainer (usually PSIA), and then go for Level 1. Assuming they want to pursue PSIA certification. My understanding is that most people who take the Level 1 exam as a novice instructor will pass without much difficulty.

Bottom line is that understanding certification levels can be helpful for those who are thinking about private or semi-private lessons. I've had a few lessons from Level 2 instructors. They all skied quite well and had 10+ years of experience as instructors. But the difference in teaching experience compared to the Level 3 instructors was noticeable, especially because those lessons involved people of slightly different abilities (2-3 skiers). All the Level 3 instructors I've worked with are very good at making sure each student gets personal attention, even when everyone is doing the same drill.

I also think that if someone asks a ski school for a Level 3 instructor, even if one is not available, the ski school will try to pick an instructor with as much as experience as possible. An intermediate does not need a Level 3 instructor, but an intermediate who has a lesson with a Level 3 instructor (or equivalent teaching experience) will learn a lot in a short period of time. Plus if things do not work out, it's easier to go back to the ski school desk and complain (nicely). As compared to asking for "a good instructor" to start with. My understanding is that most ski schools will provide a comp (free) lesson at another time if there is a reasonable explanation why a lesson was not acceptable.

+1 for a lot of points in here!

For most beginners, a highly certified (or even just Level 1 certified) instructor is not necessary, but the more specific a student wants to get, the more they are going to get out of a lesson with a higher-level certified instructor. First of all, the time, effort, and money invested in getting to level 3 (PSIA) means that persons who achieve that are not just great skiers, but they have a real passion for teaching and communicating with students. In addition, they have been teaching and learning how to teach longer, and have more experience. They can often quickly and easily change communication style, demos or exercises to help student learn quicker. At least that has been my experience.

That being said, I know some excellent Level 2 instructors who have a lot of experience, are wonderful instructors, but for various reasons- time away from work or family, injury/illness/chronic disease- haven't gone all in for Level 3.

And I know as a Level 1 instructor, I certainly feel I know more than when I started, but still have so, so, so much to learn about teaching others as well as my own skiing! Its a process!

When I talk to skiers and riders interested in taking a lesson, I do give them a rundown of certification levels and based on their goals and abilities, suggest a certification level that might work best for them. For instance, friends of mine have a special daughter, not in terms of learning, but just some health stuff. They took her for ski lessons this past winter (not at my mountain) and the teacher was a kid himself, high school aged. Now, I know there are some teens who are wonderful with kids and promising teachers, but this guy wasn't one of those. Their daughter's lesson did not go well. I suggested to them in the future to speak with the ski school ahead of time, find out who the CS-certified instructors are and find out how their daughter can take a lesson with one of them.

So that's my big thing; I wish more of the skiing public knew about the instructing process, knew the value of certification, and knew to ask for instructors with appropriate levels of certification for the skills they want to learn!

 

[Skisailor]

Along with the common questions here are a few more.

First timers-

Why do you want to learn to ski?
What do you do in real life? Work, sports, other.. This gives me a good idea of their learning style without asking.
Where are you from? Since Keystones base elevation is at 9600 feet this plays a big roll in the learning process!!

The rest-

Why are you taking the lesson?
What is your ski experience? Hours, days, years.
What terrain do you feel most comfortable on?
What do you want to get out of the lesson? Goals

The list can go on and on!! I get as much info as possible all thru the lesson and I encourage questions!

Great list of questions Katy. I wanted to focus in on one - I always ask what other sports they play or have played. Doesn't matter if they have skied before or are never evers. For me it's a critical question. First - if the answer is "none", that's VERY useful info for me in how I will approach teaching that student. But almost everyone has played SOME kind of sport. And I use that info during a lesson by trying to relate movements I am teaching in skiing to something they've done before - particularly if the skiing movement is giving them trouble or seems counter- intuitive to them. Relating it to something that is more familiar to the student is usually helpful.

 

[snow addict]

I think in Europe in systems that allow for levels it takes 5 days course involving both technical and teaching elements followed by 35 hours of "snow school experience" before taking the level 1 exam. Generally people taking level 1 unless they do it for fun immediately proceed to their level 2 since level 1 instructors are only certified to teach indoors. Many ski schools will only hire level 2 on understanding that they will be training for level 3 while working for them, since it's not that easy to sell lessons outside of peak times with L2.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

That being said, I know some excellent Level 2 instructors who have a lot of experience, are wonderful instructors, but for various reasons- time away from work or family, injury/illness/chronic disease- haven't gone all in for Level 3.

Thanks for pointing this out, as it is precisely DH’s situation. The demands of his primary career simply wiped out his available time for anything further (that and having a 2 y/o!). He’s now back at it as a volunteer adaptive instructor. Even the regulation ski school here was too much, in terms of time commitment: 45 days for part-timers. 45. That meant every weekend, both days, December through mid-April, and 2 vacation weeks! After working a 50-60 hour/week primary job.

 

[nopoleskier]

Thanks for pointing this out, as it is precisely DH’s situation. The demands of his primary career simply wiped out his available time for anything further (that and having a 2 y/o!). He’s now back at it as a volunteer adaptive instructor. Even the regulation ski school here was too much, in terms of time commitment: 45 days for part-timers. 45. That meant every weekend, both days, December through mid-April, and 2 vacation weeks! After working a 50-60 hour/week primary job.

this would be me... I always am told I should go for my Level 3 but I don't have time.

 

[marzNC]

A PSIA-E certification that isn't mentioned often is the Master Teacher Cert. The one who I know is an older instructor (retired but still doing some consulting work) who teaches at a very small ski area, mostly kids and Adaptive. He said that the course work is the essentially the same as for Level 3, some on snow and some classroom, but there is no skiing exam.

Would nice if it were easy to know where Level 3 and Master Teachers are located in a given region.

 

[KatyPerrey]

A PSIA-E certification that isn't mentioned often is the Master Teacher Cert. The one who I know is an older instructor (retired but still doing some consulting work) who teaches at a very small ski area, mostly kids and Adaptive. He said that the course work is the essentially the same as for Level 3, some on snow and some classroom, but there is no skiing exam.

Very different and you have to have at least your level two and one of the accreditations to even do the program. Fairly extensive program that requires a lot of time. Not as easy as it sounds!!!!!!

 

[Xinga]

Back to the original topic, the advice I would add for getting the most out of a lesson is that even if you find that you don't agree with or like what the instructor is teaching, or even the instructor's style or approach, you can still learn from them. If you're a chronic lesson taker like I am, mix it up -- take some classes that you think might be too easy for you and other times take ones that will push you. Also mix up instructors. One instructor pointed out something so obvious that made such a huge difference, than I can't believe no one else pointed it out! Maybe the rest of them thought it was so obvious it didn't need mentioning? Or maybe they didn't see it... who knows?

 

[marzNC]

A PSIA-E certification that isn't mentioned often is the Master Teacher Cert. The one who I know is an older instructor (retired but still doing some consulting work) who teaches at a very small ski area, mostly kids and Adaptive. He said that the course work is the essentially the same as for Level 3, some on snow and some classroom, but there is no skiing exam.

Would nice if it were easy to know where Level 3 and Master Teachers are located in a given region.

Very different and you have to have at least your level two and one of the accreditations to even do the program. Fairly extensive program that requires a lot of time. Not as easy as it sounds!!!!!!

Never meant to imply that the Master Teacher Cert is either easy or the same as Level 3. The earlier discussion was about the idea that a Level 2 with lots of experience could be as good to work with as a Level 3. Partially because many part-time Level 2 instructors simply don't have the time to prep for the Level 3 exams. I think that's even more likely at a small (<200 acres) ski area that essentially have no ungroomed terrain. When I was skiing with the Master Teacher last season, it seemed to me that his teaching knowledge was on par with Level 3 instructors that I've been lucky enough to work with in recent years.

There are some ways of getting names of Level 3 instructors from an online source. But I've never seen a list of those with the PSIA-E Master Teacher Cert. Then again, I haven't really looked either. Personally, if I had a choice between a Level 2 with 5+ years of experience and a Master Teacher, I would give the Master Teacher a try first.

I've had lessons with Level 2 and Level 3 instructors. These days when I'm going to a new ski area and want to take a private or semi-private lesson, what I do is try to get a recommendation by name beforehand for a Level 3 instructor. Have learned a lot from every Level 3, regardless of their teaching style or the terrain available. My understanding is that the instructor usually gets a little more for a private lesson when requested by name so that's another reason to make the effort to get a name before booking the lesson.

 

[snow addict]

I think it's also good to book a lesson in "iffy" conditions when you probably would not even ski normally.

 

[vanhoskier]

Thanks for pointing this out, as it is precisely DH’s situation. The demands of his primary career simply wiped out his available time for anything further (that and having a 2 y/o!). He’s now back at it as a volunteer adaptive instructor. Even the regulation ski school here was too much, in terms of time commitment: 45 days for part-timers. 45. That meant every weekend, both days, December through mid-April, and 2 vacation weeks! After working a 50-60 hour/week primary job.

YES to this.....I too know some awesome L2 instructors that teach part-time and do not have time to pursue L3 due to full-time job commitments. (My teaching job is so crazy anymore that I cannot even fulfull the time requirements as an L1 instructor).

There are plenty of excellent L2 instructors that can help one achieve their goals. Saying, "I'll only take a lesson from an L3 instructor" may deny you some great experiences with other instructors. I've been with L3 instructors that I haven't been very happy with, while I've skied with L2 instructors that have helped me a lot. That said, the best instructor I've ever skied with, and learned from, is L3 Katy Perrey. :-) She embodies all the qualities of a great instructor!

 

[KatyPerrey]

 

[bounceswoosh]

YES to this.....I too know some awesome L2 instructors that teach part-time and do not have time to pursue L3 due to full-time job commitments. (My teaching job is so crazy anymore that I cannot even fulfull the time requirements as an L1 instructor).

There are plenty of excellent L2 instructors that can help one achieve their goals. Saying, "I'll only take a lesson from an L3 instructor" may deny you some great experiences with other instructors. I've been with L3 instructors that I haven't been very happy with, while I've skied with L2 instructors that have helped me a lot. That said, the best instructor I've ever skied with, and learned from, is L3 Katy Perrey. :-) She embodies all the qualities of a great instructor!

This is absolutely true, but I think you up your odds for a great experience if you ask for an L3. Something like (numbers pulled out of nether orifice), 7 out of 10 L2s will give you a great experience; 9 out of 10 L3s will. There are some in each group who won't work out for some reason. L3s have had an enormous amount of training about different learning styles. It's absolutely true that there are L2s who didn't go for L3 due to the time commitment. The flip side is that instructors who have their L3 - they put in that time and effort to pass an incredibly difficult test that few candidates pass. It's not just extra hours; it's what they get out of those extra hours.

 

[vanhoskier]

This is absolutely true, but I think you up your odds for a great experience if you ask for an L3. Something like (numbers pulled out of nether orifice), 7 out of 10 L2s will give you a great experience; 9 out of 10 L3s will. There are some in each group who won't work out for some reason. L3s have had an enormous amount of training about different learning styles. It's absolutely true that there are L2s who didn't go for L3 due to the time commitment. The flip side is that instructors who have their L3 - they put in that time and effort to pass an incredibly difficult test that few candidates pass. It's not just extra hours; it's what they get out of those extra hours.

Yes, I'd agree the odds are with going with an L3 instructor due to all that extra training. I had the wonderful opportunity a few years ago of skiing with the PSIA National Team. They were skiing's cream of the crop. However, that special ability to teach and relate to clients is an art that is only perfected over time and through a gifted communicator, and can't adequately be measured by an exam.

 

[CMCM]

I've had a few good ski lessons….a couple of times a private, but mostly in a group mid week that virtually always ended up either just me or with at most 2 or 3 people, so almost as good as a private. If anything I always underestimate my ability going into it because I see a lesson as a place to concentrate on basics and technique and get feedback, but I've had a few unhappy experiences with instructors who saw their role as taking me (and the class) to more challenging terrain than we were comfortable with. In those cases, I really did not consider it a valuable learning experience to spend all my time struggling on a very steep slope with virtually no input from an instructor, who was way down at the bottom. Yeah, I did it, but I haven't wanted to repeat the experience. I'd much rather learn how to turn well, how to pole well, how to deal with bumps etc. on terrain I'm comfortable with. Unlike many, my goal is NOT to ski black diamonds, sorry to say. I'll also add that Squaw now does all day lessons, and frankly, that's too much for me. I much preferred half day type lessons where I could learn various things and then spend the rest of my time practicing.

 

[snow addict]

^^^ Than you definitely need to communicate to your instructor what you want from the lesson and what you don't want. Because typically lessons aim to expand the terrain skiers are comfortable with so that the mass of skiers starts spreading out more over the mountain. If you end up being in a group you might also want to discuss it with the group first too to make sure you are on the same wavelength. With private lessons you are the one making calls, but when there is a group lessons might be less specific, but generally tailored to average needs of skiers of that level, including working them towards more challenging terrain they wouldn't venture to on their own.

 

[bounceswoosh]

In those cases, I really did not consider it a valuable learning experience to spend all my time struggling on a very steep slope with virtually no input from an instructor, who was way down at the bottom.

Because typically lessons aim to expand the terrain skiers are comfortable with so that the mass of skiers starts spreading out more over the mountain.

There's taking the class to more challenging terrain, and then there's skiing off into the blue yonder on that terrain and expecting students to catch up. I've had the latter experience, and it hurt my confidence and my fun. BUT I've also had a ski instructor fly off at a faster pace than I was used to, but on terrain I would normally be in anyway. That can be really helpful as you focus to catch up and don't worry so much about the terrain.

Maybe @CMCM really doesn't want to go to more advanced terrain, in which case I agree that a private lesson makes more sense, because almost every student I know wants to work on skiing more advanced terrain. But maybe she wouldn't mind it so much if the instructor took care of his/her students on that challenging terrain?