Help - another side of calf/boot pain issue

[B.E.G.]

Are you sure your left foot is not injured in one way or another? If you ski often you don't give it time to recover.

Nope, no injury. I did sprain that ankle once but it was 6-7 years ago so I don't think that's it either.

I do know what you mean about not being given time to recover. This is really dumb, but the only injury I've had skiing so far (knock on wood) is a slightly pulled muscle on the back of my left thigh from, ironically, pulling OFF my ski boot at the end of the day (just twisted my entire leg weirdly). That was a month ago and it STILL hurts. But my ankles and calves are fine.

 

[snow addict]

I thought about injury (pulled muscle or something like that) because the problem is not symmetrical. OK, our bodies are not symmetrical and if your left leg is weaker it would show more symptoms but in theory they should still be present in your right foot. Though it can be because of the stiffness of the boot and you right foot might be just able to tolerate it. are your turns the same, or one side works markedly better than the other? I had painful tendons from skiing and was pressing too much on my toes so that they would hurt by the day end. When I was too tired after a few days of intense skiing in a row and couldn't do these 'tricks' to compensate I was all over the place, so had my boots softened on Saturday and I noticed the difference immediately. Plastic cut out from the back and heel lifts and I could wear high heels today and 7 hours on the mountain yesterday were not a problem. I was tired, but it was an even sensation not the feeling that my feet may fall off or something like that. I wish I went to a bootfitter immediately after I got my boots, I wouldn't have spent so many weekends learning to compensate as there is a line after which the compensatory 'technique' stops working anyway. And it stops skiing from progressing as too much effort is put into flexing the boot, because if the boot is not flexed there is a risk of losing control with every turn. And you have a stiff ski which you must be able to command, maybe this effort causes a strain of your muscles. so consider stiffness as a possible explanation.

 

[litterbug]

Is it possible your discomfort has prevented you from moving your hips forward? My experience is that before my cuff was adjusted my hips felt immobilized; I could push them forward if I concentrated hard but that stiffened me up both from side to side and front to back.

One thing I discovered is the concept of closing the ankle joints along with resting my shins on the tongue of the boot. According to the Boot Guys forum on epic, heel lifts are appropriate for people who have limited ankle mobility, but they actually tend to make you push your butt back further. It's not intuitive, but I tend to trust the experts.

Also, are your bindings mounted slightly forward? Kenja's binding marks may already do this, but last time I skied I had the demo bindings moved one notch forward (about a cm); this probably also contributed to my improvement after the cuff adjustments. Bindings on most women's skis are placed a centimeter or two forward; even that small a change in the foot can make a huge difference in your COM.

Assuming you've solved the shin pain problem, I might start with asking the bootfitter about softening the boots, and then consider adjusting the binding a cm forward if they're mounted in the center of the ski (most bindings can be moved a few centimeters). At the same time, I'd go back to fundamentals. Remember, your skiing has come along very far very fast and even the best skiers have to revisit basic skills from time to time. The last thing I'd do is heel lifts because they can actually worsen your position.

But that's just me, and most of what I know about boots is from reading bootfitter forums. Others will chime in, I'm sure!!

 

[litterbug]

Is it possible your discomfort has prevented you from moving your hips forward? My experience is that before my cuff was adjusted my hips felt immobilized; I could push them forward if I concentrated hard but that stiffened me up both from side to side and front to back.

One thing I discovered is the concept of closing the ankle joints along with resting my shins on the tongue of the boot. According to the Boot Guys forum on epic, heel lifts are appropriate for people who have limited ankle mobility, but they actually tend to make you push your butt back further. It's not intuitive, but I tend to trust the experts.

Also, are your bindings mounted slightly forward? Kenja's binding marks may already do this, but last time I skied I had the demo bindings moved one notch forward (about a cm); this probably also contributed to my improvement after the cuff adjustments. Bindings on most women's skis are placed a centimeter or two forward; even that small a change in the foot can make a huge difference in your COM.

Assuming you've solved the shin pain problem, I might start with asking the bootfitter about softening the boots, and then consider adjusting the binding a cm forward if they're mounted in the center of the ski (most bindings can be moved a few centimeters). At the same time, I'd go back to fundamentals. Remember, your skiing has come along very far very fast and even the best skiers have to revisit basic skills from time to time. The last thing I'd do is heel lifts because they can actually worsen your position.

But that's just me, and most of what I know about boots is from reading bootfitter forums. Others will chime in, I'm sure!!

 

[Serafina]

I wonder if I should ask for heel ramps - sometimes I feel like I'm skiing on my toes in a conscious effort to stay forward.

I control my skis mainly with the balls of my feet, not with my toes - if you are actually using your toes, this would be something to mention to the bootfitter.

I needed the heel lifts because my foot is shaped like a duck foot. Very wide across the forward part, very narrow in the heel...and I could feel my heels rising up and down and wiggling left-to-right inside the boot. The heel lift stopped all of that (and stopped all of the compensating stuff that was giving me pain). I think you probably would have noticed already if your boot was loose anywhere in the foot...but you should definitely mention to the boot guy about skiing with your toes. That's not right, and may well be a part of what is making the pain.

 

[litterbug]

I'm sorry, the duck foot description made me laugh. I have big feet for my height and my dad used to joke that I had big feet so I wouldn't fall over in a strong wind.

I'm glad you mentioned heel movement because although I started with a little heel pocket, I've got a fair amount of up-and-down movement in my heel after a couple of months on them. I must remember to ask the bootfitter whether that should needs fixing when I go in to align my leg.

I think I posted a long time ago about how people, especially women, should have to watch an educational video about boots before they buy. We don't have any idea what a good fit feels like, and few of us lucky enough to stumble upon a good bootfitter, so we buy boots that fit the way our shoes do and learn to hate skiing because it hurts so much. OK, this happens to men too, but we're talking women here.

 

[snow addict]

Heel lifts can be removed if they are not working but their effect on the position depends on the actual issue. If someone is skiing on the toes heel lifts can be a solution as by getting on the toes a skier can be trying to get more leverage. It is not a real back seat, but a back seat effect, when in proper position the control of the skis becomes difficult, particularly coming out of turns. Shins maybe pressing on top of the boot but there is not enough transmission to the tips of the skis. Getting on the toes is a compensatory technique in this case but it's exhausting and inefficient, may put too much strain on muscles and hampers the progress, correcting it with heel lifts shouldn't lead to any back seat problems but may help to relieve the stress on tendons, it's used as part of the technique to 'soften' the boot. But of course a bootfitter opinion is needed. If it's a muscle pain it means the muscle is overstressed, so what you experience when you ski may help him determine what causes it and what role the boot plays if any. Maybe indeed moving binding forward would do a trick, but this also should be checked.

 

[B.E.G.]

Hi guys! I'm reading all the responses - thank you! I'm going into the ski shop in a couple hours so I'll ask him about all of this. Since he actually saw me ski yesterday too, he might have some ideas as well. I'll update again tonight

Serafina, FYI - I have duck feet too! (Btw, today I am totally mashing words together - you do not want to combine "feet" and "duck" into one word - it becomes inappropriate...). We actually had to widen out the forefoot of my boots because my big and little toes were being scrunched.

 

[litterbug]

It is not a real back seat, but a back seat effect, when in proper position the control of the skis becomes difficult, particularly coming out of turns.

Interesting! I just learned something new!

 

[Liquid Yellow]

This topic is really interesting to me. I had to put heel lifts in my old boots because guess what? I have duck feet too! I was getting quite bad thigh burn with new skis + old boots, but I now think the old (crap) boots just weren't up to the job.

My new boots feel very secure around the heel, but I thought I'd still need the heel lifts to keep my weight forward. However on reading the replies I'm now not sure I do. I'll get to try them properly next week.

Sorry for the slight hijack, but it as I say, it's really interesting to me!

B.E.G, do let us know how you got on. Hope you get it/got it sorted.

 

[B.E.G.]

Hijack away - I don't mind! I'm learning a lot from this thread. I'm not taking my boots in today because I'm skiing Wednesday, possibly, but I'm going to ask him about heel lifts based on what he saw when I was skiing yesterday. Do need to get my skis waxed though!

 

[Serafina]

This topic is really interesting to me. I had to put heel lifts in my old boots because guess what? I have duck feet too! I was getting quite bad thigh burn with new skis + old boots, but I now think the old (crap) boots just weren't up to the job.

My new boots feel very secure around the heel, but I thought I'd still need the heel lifts to keep my weight forward. However on reading the replies I'm now not sure I do. I'll get to try them properly next week.

Sorry for the slight hijack, but it as I say, it's really interesting to me!

B.E.G, do let us know how you got on. Hope you get it/got it sorted.

I didn't need mine until my lining started to pack out a bit - the first 5 ski days or so, it was not a problem. Then again, it was a real battle to get the boots *on* until the lining packed out a little, at which point the heel thing started to become plain...

 

[litterbug]

B.E.G., I just went back to read your first post and see that you hadn't gotten your foot beds. Have you had a chance to ski with them yet? Did they make any difference? The foot beds would raise your feet up a little and change how your feet are shaped, so maybe they made a difference? Or not? I think I'm going to finish the rest of my sentences with a question mark? :ROTF:

(sorry, I'm having a heck of a Monday and am real punchy)

 

[mountainxtc]

Lots of talk about heel lifts. I'm going to throw a wrench in the works and suggest toe lifts as a possi(more like proba)bility. From what I've read about you, B.E.G., you seem to be one of the more vertically challenged divas. I hope that description is P.C enough

In general, heel lifts work well to align taller people, and those with exceptionally longer legs relative to torso. Toe lifts work well to align those with shorter legs. Try the Ron LeMaster squat test to see if you need either:

With your ski boots on, stand on a flat surface (this is essential) and squat deeply with your hands stretched forward a la:

If, as in the image, your knees are under your armpits your forward lean is perfect.

If, as in this image:

your shoulders/armpits are behind your knees, you are likely a good candidate for heel lifts.

If the reverse is the case (sorry I don't have an image) and your shoulders/armpits are ahead of your knees, you are likely a good candidate for toe lifts.

A good friend of mine (a ski diva if ever I knew one!!) is around 5'2" and toe lifts changed her life. She competes on the freeskiing world tour and rips.

Try the test, it could be life altering!!

Obviously we have moved wildly OT here, I'm not sure what could be causing your calf pain, but the above suggestion relates to the forward lean adjustments that others are prescribing for quad burn.....

 

[litterbug]

Pictures! Whoo hoo! Pictures! Thanks, mountainxtc. Just for giggles I'm going to do this when I get home just to see how I fit in there. My weight has shifted forward considerably but I haven't had anyone who knows anything opine whether it's where it should be.

 

[Serafina]

Fascinating info, mountainxtc! I'm one of the heel-lifties, and I'm 5'10" and nearly all of that is in my legs. Causes me no end of trouble with certain yoga positions and stretches. Looks just like the 2nd picture, too, in the squat.

Learn something new every day!

 

[mountainxtc]

Fascinating info, mountainxtc! I'm one of the heel-lifties, and I'm 5'10" and nearly all of that is in my legs. Causes me no end of trouble with certain yoga positions and stretches. Looks just like the 2nd picture, too, in the squat.

Learn something new every day!

Me too, I'm 5'11 and look ridiculous with my leg:torso ratio. I'm all leg. And while some may say that's good genes, I say it's impossible (read completely impractical) for sports. And seeing as I'm an athlete and not a super model, it's a hurdle.

I didn't put heel lifts in my latest pair of boots, but I did see myself ski on video last week and that, combined with this thread have reminded me to see to that!!

I look like that 2nd picture too, only worse (and less male, obviously....) .

 

[contesstant]

I'm so trying this test with my new boots! I can almost guarantee you my pits are going to be way behind my knees. I have REALLY long femurs that also give me grief when I ride my horse.

My boots came with a pair of heel lifts, so those might just come in handy :D Thanks for the tip!

 

[B.E.G.]

Ooh Mountainxtc, pictures! Thanks a bunch! I'm eating dinner now (love how I'm posting to Ski Diva as I eat) but I am SO going to do that after dinner. I will post pics if I can!

And you are correct, I am DEFINITELY vertically challenged (5'1"!). There was a really interesting thread a few months ago on here about leg proportions and its relation to flex/power ... without doubt, I have short legs. I mean, proportionally correct for my height and weight, but still, shorter calf muscles, etc.

Litterbug - I don't have my custom footbeds yet. Actually, it's taking a while because he has to order them (or he's trying to order ones that are small enough). If he can't find them, he'll cut something larger down but first he's seeing if he can get something reeeeally small, lol.

I did talk to him about my skiing today. Most of what I really need to do now is turn less with my body, more with my ankles, and within 10 minutes after skiing with him, I was doing it (carving nice GS turns). He said my stance was perfect when he was skiing with me - not far back at all, not too far forward.

Also, somebody asked about my bindings? Oh Litterbug, it was you! And the boot flex. Ok, so he did soften my boot flex and I skied in the softened boots on Fri. and Sat. Felt SO much better. Well, here's the thing I really noticed - my right leg is definitely stronger/more able to flex than my left. I did notice the unevenness of my turns prior to softening, and I think that's part of what it was. He softened them up and I could flex really well on both sides - huge improvement in feeling.

Also, my bindings on the Kenjas are set 1 cm forward to compensate for length since I went a little long on them (156). I did make sure to ask about that and he said I'm skiing the ski fine - no issues with flexing the skis. He does want me out for 1 day if possible on a soft, skinny ski to really get my carving down and then transfer to the Kenjas - he says I can still do it with the Kenjas but the learning curve will be steeper.

I'm so glad I got to ski with him yesterday - this helps a lot since now he knows exactly what I'm doing and what I need to work on, and because he's so familiar with all the equipment I'm using.

 

[pinto]

Me too, I'm 5'11 and look ridiculous with my leg:torso ratio. I'm all leg. And while some may say that's good genes, I say it's impossible (read completely impractical) for sports. And seeing as I'm an athlete and not a super model, it's a hurdle.