Has anyone gotten this tip before?

[goodcat]

Hello, I am new to the forum.

I took ski lessons in BC last month. I was given this advice: to get into a turn faster, slide the uphill foot forward even before you are extra bending the ankle of the downhill foot.

This was very counter-intuitive to me. My instructor had me ski across the hill on my uphill foot (with my downhill foot lifted) several times to get used to the idea.

It really did help. I think it was the first time I ever truly carved. I was always skidding before (and always exhausted at the end of the day).

I am really enjoying this forum -- so glad I found you all!

 

[geargrrl]

In my last lesson, that was what I was given: push the feet foward a little. Huge difference and threw me right onto my edges for a carved not skidded turn.

 

[Sheena]

I participated in one of the Epic Ski Academies two seasons ago. That was one of the tips I was given. It helped me a lot with my carving and turn initiation.

 

[deannatoby]

Is the uphill foot defined as the one uphill going into the curve, meaning it will be on the outside of the turn radius? Then you slide it out so it is ahead of the other foot going into the curve?

 

[geargrrl]

feet, not foot.

 

[goodcat]

which foot?

Is the uphill foot defined as the one uphill going into the curve, meaning it will be on the outside of the turn radius? Then you slide it out so it is ahead of the other foot going into the curve?

It is the foot that will be on the inside. In other words, if you want to turn right, you slide the right foot slightly forward as you are transitioning into turning right.

 

[mwendell]

This is so interesting because it is the opposite of the problem the I seem to have: my uphill foot is tooooo far foward, so I am not on top of my skis enough/puts me in the backseat. This is a bigger problem for me when I turn left (so left foot is too far forward).

I am starting to get some carving going on, and it is much more difficult for me to acheive on left turns than right turns.

Just goes to show that though we often have similar problems, we also have different ones too. :-)

 

[mountainxtc]

It is the foot that will be on the inside. In other words, if you want to turn right, you slide the right foot slightly forward as you are transitioning into turning right.

Actually, it is the opposite. So, mwendell, rest assured you have the same issue(s) as most

 

[mwendell]

Confused....?

Oh, wow. When I read the original post, I took it to mean that the "new" or "to-be" uphill/inside ski should be slid forward. (already very forward for me)

But now I think what you are saying (clarifying) is that the current uphill/future outside ski should actually be slid forward some when transitioning into the turn. Is this right? I guess that makes sense because the outside ski has farther to go than the inside ski....

 

[RhodySkier]

MW-that's correct. The uphill/inside ski should be forward.

 

[Perty]

Ahh..well...how about this for the completely opposite advice!

Had a great lesson last week from an American Instructor who has been teaching for 35 years-Lynne Stainbrooke based in Flaine, France.
Stand on your skis in a neutral position balanced evenly on the soles of your feet. Do not use excess energy by leaning into the tongue of the ski boot. Start to go downhill and to initiate a turn pull the uphill foot back at little. The following happens-pressure naturally transfers onto the ball of your foot (and hence the front of the ski) and the ski starts to turn onto the inside edge. This initiates the turn nice and early, then you keep pressure on the inside of the ball of the foot to complete the turn. I am now using that plus the pushing forward slightly of the downhill thigh at the end of my turns-which I already did. The carve is much more stable as your weight is over the ski and the front of the ski turns and grips the snow. I know that seems the total opposite of what is said in this thread, but I have started to use it and I know my turns are far more stable and controlled and not a sign of pushing out the heel at the rear...

 

[deannatoby]

So, Perty, if you're going downhill how do you have an uphill foot? Aren't they both going downhill? Since your skis turns on the inside edge, then that foot ends up downhill and on the outside of the turn, right? So you are saying you were told to pull you outside foot back?

And mountainxtc recommends pulling the outside foot forward, right?

This is turning into a fun mystery!

 

[mtngirl]

I vote ski to the outside of the turn, which starts up hill and ends downhill moves forward to start the turn... helps when I need to turn right now in trees, moguls or steeps and I am having difficulty believing that I can and will turn where I need to and quick enough...

 

[mwendell]

Ah, this is so confusing. Here is my read.

When you are traversing the fall line, your uphill ski naturally has to be more forward than your downhill ski (rhodyskier). I'm not sure there is any other way about this.

When you want to initiate your next/first/whatever turn, in order to better engage your edges and help carve rather than skid the turn, you slide forward the ski that WILL BE on the outside radius of the turn (because it has farther to go, like the lanes on a running track). I believe this is what Mountainxtc is saying.

But.... it also seems to be the opposite of what the OP is saying.

What do you think?

 

[RhodySkier]

It is the foot that will be on the inside. In other words, if you want to turn right, you slide the right foot slightly forward as you are transitioning into turning right.

I'm confused now, too!

I thought goodcat was right. As I understand it, if both of my skis are facing downhill and I want to turn Right, I should slide my Right foot forward. As I make the Right turn, my Right foot will remain forward but more weight will be on my Left foot. Someone made the analogy in a different thread of one foot being the steering wheel (the Right foot in a Right turn) and the other foot being the gas pedal (the Left foot in a Right turn) which really made sense to me.

Then, as I begin to initiate a turn to the Left, I will slide my Left foot forward and so on...

 

[mountainxtc]

LOL, this conversation is even confusing me!!

First off, I will say that I personally don't advocate this method because I believe it's more of a band-aid fix that fixing the root cause of tip lead (which could be any number of things). But it's not an incorrect movement so can be useful in certain situations (and I don't know the context of the OP's lesson).

I will also say that turning with the lower body (good) creates natural tip lead (uphill ski at the end of the turn will be slightly ahead of the downhill).

With those things said, the tip that the OP received was to slide the new outside ski (that is the ski that starts the turn on the uphill side and finishes the turn on the downhill side) forward at the initiation of the turn. this is the opposite of what RhodySkier said. To continue this movement, at the completion of the turn you wind up pushing the downhill ski forward. Hence the confusion .

<breakdown>
If you think of a turn as being split into 2 halves - the first half being initiation to fall line and the second half being fall line to completion, the ski being moved forward changes from being the uphill ski in the first half to the downhill ski in the second half. More simply, in the turn as a whole, the ski being moved forward is always on the outside of the turn. This move is often taught more successfully as pulling the inside ski back - choose whichever floats your boat.
</breakdown>

Hope that clears up the confusion!!

 

[snow addict]

When I read the first post it seemed very clear, but the following discussion got a bit confusing, yet it appears that everyone means pretty much the same and the issue is mainly with terminology.

I can totally understand that the uphill ski would be ahead of the downhill one and it is at certain parts of the turn and physically cannot be anywhere else. If you place your feet on the floor totally parallel as if they are facing the fall line and then just turn your feet left or right with body still facing this imaginary line, the one that would have been uphill if it was on a real slope will always be ahead of the downhill one. And the wider the stance the more forward it will be. And what Perty said and Montainxtc clarified doesn't contradict it at all. I will be skiing by myself tomorrow so there will be time to look into it more closely without holding anyone back. But it seems that pulling this ski back under you is what you need to do to avoid ending your turn in the backseat, pushing tails etc., so it makes for more efficient turns.

Last year in Chamonix I was also made by instructor to ski across the hill on my uphill ski, and the idea being that this ski and it's outside edge should be playing more active role, and weight should be distributed more evenly between the skis, not all or almost all the weight on the downhill one as I saw on "Breakthrough on new skis I" DVD. New technic totally works, so I don't use this DVD anymore for reference as it doesn't seem to be relevant. Even "new" skis there look old, so I guess that technic was some sort of transitional one between old school and how people ski these days. But I kept Part II for moguls

What would be really great is having a separate thread by our Divas-instructors dedicated to this terminology to avoid everyone saying the same but without understanding. Like the threads in the Gearpedia section.

 

[tcarey]

Move the center of mass across the ski to initiate a turn,right to go right,left to go left!

 

[deannatoby]

it appears that everyone means pretty much the same and the issue is mainly with terminology.

I find that I understand much better with outside/inside ski. Only one ski can be on the outside of a turn, whether you are initiating or finishing. Downhill/uphill always makes me wonder if it's downhill before or after the turn unless the poster is very clear to say "downhill going into the turn," or something of the like.

Semantics. It fogs up everything, doesn't it?!

 

[mwendell]

This move is often taught more successfully as pulling the inside ski back - choose whichever floats your boat.

This is exactly what I was told to work on in my last lesson -- to help keep my skis under me. I have found it to be very helpful.

Thanks for coming back and breaking it down so well for us mountainxtc.