-
Women skiers, this is the place for you -- an online community without the male-orientation you'll find in conventional ski magazines and internet ski forums. At TheSkiDiva.com, you can connect with other women to talk about skiing in a way that you can relate to, about things that you find of interest. Be sure to join our community to participate (women only, please!). Registration is fast and simple. Just be sure to add [email protected] to your address book so your registration activation emails won't be routed as spam. And please give careful consideration to your user name -- it will not be changed once your registration is confirmed.
Grizzly Bear Question. Also Idaho Question.
- Thread starter SallyCat
- Start date
sibhusky
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I saw my alert, so here I am. Yes, Whitefish is pretty far and no, I don't know anything about Ketchum.
I will say this. We lived in this house for 13 years and only saw black bears. I knew historically there had been grizzlies in this area, but the last in this part of the woods had been 25 years before we moved here. But, there is a closure at the resort for grizzlies and as the crow flies it's under five miles away. Plus there have been grizzlies in town. But like I said, even tho I have a wildlife surveillance camera up all the time and move it around, not once in 13 years had there been a grizzly. So, the attack was a total stunner from species perspective. But let's get one thing straight. Black bears can be just as dangerous. Especially in the fall and around their young. I guarantee you if you are being charged you don't have the time or the interest in determining the species. You can have SECONDS to react. You want to carry bear spray in bear country all the time. Guess what, there's bear scat in our yard right now. I never used to carry it on our property, now I do. But spent 13 years only taking it if I left the property. The attack, as the crow flies (not as was walked that day, they were following trails) was a mere 1600 feet from the house.
The bear specialists from the Forest Service that met with us told us that in their experience black bear attacks are more an aggression thing and grizzly attacks are more of a defensive thing. So, IF you get attacked by a black bear, your injuries could be more severe because when they attack they are not just trying to fend you off, they are trying to hurt you. Yes, in general, they just move away if you're making noise, but sometimes they could be stalking you with intent because they are hungry. Rare, though.
Neither is cute and cuddly unless there is a set of bars between you.
I will say this. We lived in this house for 13 years and only saw black bears. I knew historically there had been grizzlies in this area, but the last in this part of the woods had been 25 years before we moved here. But, there is a closure at the resort for grizzlies and as the crow flies it's under five miles away. Plus there have been grizzlies in town. But like I said, even tho I have a wildlife surveillance camera up all the time and move it around, not once in 13 years had there been a grizzly. So, the attack was a total stunner from species perspective. But let's get one thing straight. Black bears can be just as dangerous. Especially in the fall and around their young. I guarantee you if you are being charged you don't have the time or the interest in determining the species. You can have SECONDS to react. You want to carry bear spray in bear country all the time. Guess what, there's bear scat in our yard right now. I never used to carry it on our property, now I do. But spent 13 years only taking it if I left the property. The attack, as the crow flies (not as was walked that day, they were following trails) was a mere 1600 feet from the house.
The bear specialists from the Forest Service that met with us told us that in their experience black bear attacks are more an aggression thing and grizzly attacks are more of a defensive thing. So, IF you get attacked by a black bear, your injuries could be more severe because when they attack they are not just trying to fend you off, they are trying to hurt you. Yes, in general, they just move away if you're making noise, but sometimes they could be stalking you with intent because they are hungry. Rare, though.
Neither is cute and cuddly unless there is a set of bars between you.
SallyCat
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thank you for your thoughtful reply, @sibhusky, and thanks for answering the Bat Signal!
Your point about black bears is important and well taken. I've been told that if a black bear actually attacks you, you'd better fight back with everything you have, because it's going to try to kill you.
What sorts of critters do you see on the wildlife cam? That must be interesting!
I find that in the east it's fashionable amongst backpackers to dismiss attention to bear safety as hyperbolic and unnecessary. Along the AT, food hygiene is absolutely slovenly; I never once stayed at a shelter that didn't have other people's food hanging from the eaves or sitting on a shelf. Nobody carries bear spray; to do so would be to invite derision. It feels like a weird sort of bravado; a contest to display bravery by showing who can ignore common sense and the advice of wildlife experts with the most nonchalance. Unsurprisingly, bear encounters along the AT are becoming a serious issue. So that's a human problem.
But sometimes you're just unlucky. The most scared I've ever been was on a MTB trail in northern Vermont, zipping along at a quick pace toward a U-shaped bend in the trail. There, just beyond the U, was a small-ish adult black bear staring at me. I kept going, because stopping would have put me very close to him/her. But Holy Maximum Heart Rate, when I rounded the turn I realized I was basically running away from a bear, which is the one thing you're not supposed to do in an encounter. My brain just screamed the "F" word at me for about 45 seconds, until it became clear the bear wasn't chasing.
So when I ask about bears, it's not because I'm home clutching my pearls and imagining a backcountry seething with malevolence, it's just that I know how to be cautious about black bears, but don't know anything about Grizzlies. And I do know that anyone can accidentally get into a dangerous situation once in a while with either species.
Thanks again for your insight!
Your point about black bears is important and well taken. I've been told that if a black bear actually attacks you, you'd better fight back with everything you have, because it's going to try to kill you.
What sorts of critters do you see on the wildlife cam? That must be interesting!
I find that in the east it's fashionable amongst backpackers to dismiss attention to bear safety as hyperbolic and unnecessary. Along the AT, food hygiene is absolutely slovenly; I never once stayed at a shelter that didn't have other people's food hanging from the eaves or sitting on a shelf. Nobody carries bear spray; to do so would be to invite derision. It feels like a weird sort of bravado; a contest to display bravery by showing who can ignore common sense and the advice of wildlife experts with the most nonchalance. Unsurprisingly, bear encounters along the AT are becoming a serious issue. So that's a human problem.
But sometimes you're just unlucky. The most scared I've ever been was on a MTB trail in northern Vermont, zipping along at a quick pace toward a U-shaped bend in the trail. There, just beyond the U, was a small-ish adult black bear staring at me. I kept going, because stopping would have put me very close to him/her. But Holy Maximum Heart Rate, when I rounded the turn I realized I was basically running away from a bear, which is the one thing you're not supposed to do in an encounter. My brain just screamed the "F" word at me for about 45 seconds, until it became clear the bear wasn't chasing.
So when I ask about bears, it's not because I'm home clutching my pearls and imagining a backcountry seething with malevolence, it's just that I know how to be cautious about black bears, but don't know anything about Grizzlies. And I do know that anyone can accidentally get into a dangerous situation once in a while with either species.
Thanks again for your insight!
SallyCat
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Isn't it just short-sighted stupidity, and lo, it creates a problem which makes it worse for everyone. Then, bears get a bad name, if not shot, for endangering humans.
Yes, absolutely. It's a sort of "ego-anarchism" that imagines nature as beyond the reach of social contracts.
Gloria
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Christy
Angel Diva
Come to think about it, I was wrong when I said it's only the sheepdogs you need to think about around Ketchum. Moose are the ornery critter around Ketchum. I took this photo at a trailhead about 5 minutes from downtown, in October. We have seen moose at the Sun Valley base--like, on the plaza, with babies. You can tell by the text that many people, in fact, do not believe the following.
SallyCat
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Moose, bears, wolves, snakes...meh. The scariest part of my job is administrators.
I find that when encountering an administrator in his or her natural habitat it is safest to appear submissive. If an administrator charges at you with a new idea for how to do your job, it is best to stand your ground while gently offering compliments and displaying acquiescence. If your administrator is tagged, you can predict the likelihood of a new-ideas attack by monitoring his or her conference attendance.
I find that when encountering an administrator in his or her natural habitat it is safest to appear submissive. If an administrator charges at you with a new idea for how to do your job, it is best to stand your ground while gently offering compliments and displaying acquiescence. If your administrator is tagged, you can predict the likelihood of a new-ideas attack by monitoring his or her conference attendance.
)OMG ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS X 20 MILLION
When I lived in the UP one of my co-workers had a black bear decide to start hanging out in her backyard for a week. So........................
SallyCat
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My 83-year-old mother found a bear enjoying bird feeder that she forgot to take down from the side of the house (in Vermont). So she opened the door and told it to "shoo."
Which evidently it did.
When we looked at her in alarm, she said "oh, it wasn't a very big bear...".
sibhusky
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
In case you're wondering, how does my family feel about the Forest Service decision NOT to shoot the bear... They are totally fine with it. Really. She was doing what bears do, defending a deer carcass (taken down by a mountain lion), and her babies, during the fall when bears are stocking up on their food intake enormously in preparation for winter. Neither my husband nor my daughter at any point have been mad at the bear.Isn't it just short-sighted stupidity, and lo, it creates a problem which makes it worse for everyone. Then, bears get a bad name, if not shot, for endangering humans.
Now, separate question, do we think the grizzly should be deleted as an endangered species in this area, as is now under discussion. None of us is sure. They are back up in numbers to a just barely sustainable level, but the increased presence of people has meant there are a growing number of bear-human conflicts, so the bears are being put down in many of these cases, and I don't know if hunting is needed to hold down the bear population. And clearly the bears are doing their part to keep US in check. I don't think this year was quite as bad as last year in terms of attacks, but it was still probably a weekly headline again this fall. Some of the victims are in damn bad shape. A guy near here last year died just a few days before my family's incident. Not sure about this year. So I'm feeling like a bit of a hunting season might be needed. We now know there are at least six griz in our woods. Makes looking for our Christmas tree a little nerve-racking.
Ringrat
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I live in black bear and grizzly country, and have never let it stop me from doing any recreating. I hike a lot alone, so I'm constantly cautious and I make noise (not bear bells, they don't make enough noise to be useful, just annoying). I carry bear spray, know how to use it, and never have needed to, and I'm careful with my food when out overnight alone (or with others). I've never had a negative encounter, but I'm familiar with signs of both defensive and predatory behaviour just in case. Sometimes in the fall if it's been a particularly active season with multiple food-protective encounters in the area I'll modify my plans to suit.
I'm more scared of meeting a cow moose with a calf than a bear. Moose are unpredictable and single-minded. Bears I know more about their behaviours.
I'm more scared of meeting a cow moose with a calf than a bear. Moose are unpredictable and single-minded. Bears I know more about their behaviours.
2bjenny
Certified Ski Diva
I live in eastern Idaho and hike in grizzly territory. I carry bear spray all of the time but I worry more about moose and black bears than brown bears. Bear spray can also help with a charging moose, though I wouldn't depend on it. Most people I know that hike and hunt around here have never seen a grizzly, but have been charged at least once by a surprised moose. I've not been charged by a bear. I have been charged by a moose, but in NH.
I try to not hike alone in some of the more remote bear territory, though their range is expanding more and more. I had my first grizzly bear encounter this summer. A friend of mine and I were hiking a very popular trail in the Tetons, but we headed up early to beat the crowds. I reminded her to make sure she brought bear spray too, though the chances of seeing a grizzly were almost zero. Of course, on our way down, there's a young grizzly about 10 feet from us making his way to the trail. The good thing was he was happy and unconcerned about us and we were not blocking his path. He was probably 3 or 4, so not huge and no longer with a sow. However, he was big enough to really hurt if he wanted and too close for my comfort. It will not keep me from hiking, but just made me aware of how unaware we were of our surroundings. What shocks me is just how many people are out in prime bear territory with no spray. I've started to do more trail runs in the area that are in grizzly habitat and I am surprised at how many runners are not carrying spray with them. A group of us did a race in Harriman Park in August and there was a big boar that was known to be hanging around. I think my friends and I were the only runners that had spray on them.
I try to not hike alone in some of the more remote bear territory, though their range is expanding more and more. I had my first grizzly bear encounter this summer. A friend of mine and I were hiking a very popular trail in the Tetons, but we headed up early to beat the crowds. I reminded her to make sure she brought bear spray too, though the chances of seeing a grizzly were almost zero. Of course, on our way down, there's a young grizzly about 10 feet from us making his way to the trail. The good thing was he was happy and unconcerned about us and we were not blocking his path. He was probably 3 or 4, so not huge and no longer with a sow. However, he was big enough to really hurt if he wanted and too close for my comfort. It will not keep me from hiking, but just made me aware of how unaware we were of our surroundings. What shocks me is just how many people are out in prime bear territory with no spray. I've started to do more trail runs in the area that are in grizzly habitat and I am surprised at how many runners are not carrying spray with them. A group of us did a race in Harriman Park in August and there was a big boar that was known to be hanging around. I think my friends and I were the only runners that had spray on them.
va_deb
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thanks for sharing everyone, and for all the education. In our immediate area bear sightings are extremely rare, but not unheard of a few hours away where we ski in WV and in Central VA.
The first time we went to North Lake Tahoe I was fascinated by the bear info and warnings. I still kinda wanted to see one in person from a safe distance though — preferably from a lift high above an area well away from a ski run or not where anyone would be off piste — or in the woods between our rental house and the lake, and far away from people.
True story: on my first visit to Northstar I was really excited that they had a mid-mountain demo shop since I loooove demoing and rarely get a chance to since we don’t have demo shops at our small local hills.
I was so didappointed to ride up to mid-mountain and see that the demo shop was closed. I asked a lifty why they weren’t open during a peak part of the season and he said, “It’s because a bear family made its home under there.” First I thought he was kidding.
Then he explained that the bear family had chewed through the wires and the resort couldn’t operate cash registers, manage inventory, or turn on their baseboard heater.
After I got over being mad about my expected demo nirvana being a lot less convenient, things shifted. Every time I passed what was now in my mind “the bear hut” (aka the closed demo shop) I kept having giggle fits.
In my head I was picturing the mama bear wanting try the new Santa Ana and being mad about not seeing a pair in her size, or not being sure which Head Joy ski would be right for the conditions, or telling the papa bear that he should try the Bonafides instead of the Mantras.
And then I wondered if mama bears attempted to teach their own cubs to ski, or whether they were smart and enrolled the cubs in ski school for the day.
The first time we went to North Lake Tahoe I was fascinated by the bear info and warnings. I still kinda wanted to see one in person from a safe distance though — preferably from a lift high above an area well away from a ski run or not where anyone would be off piste — or in the woods between our rental house and the lake, and far away from people.
True story: on my first visit to Northstar I was really excited that they had a mid-mountain demo shop since I loooove demoing and rarely get a chance to since we don’t have demo shops at our small local hills.
I was so didappointed to ride up to mid-mountain and see that the demo shop was closed. I asked a lifty why they weren’t open during a peak part of the season and he said, “It’s because a bear family made its home under there.” First I thought he was kidding.
Then he explained that the bear family had chewed through the wires and the resort couldn’t operate cash registers, manage inventory, or turn on their baseboard heater.
After I got over being mad about my expected demo nirvana being a lot less convenient, things shifted. Every time I passed what was now in my mind “the bear hut” (aka the closed demo shop) I kept having giggle fits.
In my head I was picturing the mama bear wanting try the new Santa Ana and being mad about not seeing a pair in her size, or not being sure which Head Joy ski would be right for the conditions, or telling the papa bear that he should try the Bonafides instead of the Mantras.
And then I wondered if mama bears attempted to teach their own cubs to ski, or whether they were smart and enrolled the cubs in ski school for the day.
