Go Big or Go Home.

[ski diva]

Anyone here know about the Go Bigger Coalition?

I found this interesting article about a group in Tahoe who are attempting to discredit the prevailing wisdom that flying through the air 200 feet on skis is a worthy goal no matter what the risks, and emphasize the importance of being alive at 70 and enjoying the simple beauty of skiing every day.

Here's a quote from the article:

Recently local adventurer Erik Roner died while skydiving as part of a presentation at an event in Squaw Valley. He crashed hard into a tree and died in front of many witnesses including Tahoe resident Renee Koijane.

“That was the final straw,” Koijane said. “We have lost so many people. I have compassion for the families who are left behind. We are trying to preserve the future generation. How do we break the cycle? My son is an amazing skier. I had to make the conscious decision to pretty much remove him from the sport until the culture shifted.”

I admit -- I lack that risk-taking gene that a lot of these extreme athletes have. If the choice is between go big or go home, I'd probably go home. I also think the glamorization of sports that offer outsized risks, like BASE jumping, encourages a lot of people to take chances they probably shouldn't.

What do you think?

 

[contesstant]

This last portion spoke to me the most:
"A true hero is the person with gray hair and sore muscles who on his 75th birthday is hiking to see that amazing sunrise over Lake Tahoe from the top of Rubicon Peak.

“When I think about the outdoors it’s about celebrating and respecting nature. And becoming a part of nature. Sports I think is about setting goals and learning values about life. How to be on a team, how to handle disappointment. How to handle winning and learning how to be humble. Something is really being lost today,” says Koijane. “We want our kids to live a long life.”

It does seem like glorifying high-risk extreme sports has become more of an issue in the past 10-15 years. I'm not going to lie, I'm grateful to have a cautious little girl I am raising.

 

[Christy]

I also agree that glorifying extreme sports is problematic. I like the idea of this group; I wonder if it will be able to counter the trend.

This is a tangent, but related. I'm also baffled by the trend to make "regular" sports more extreme. I mean, it used to be a big accomplishment to run a marathon. Now that's old hat, and people do 50 or 100 mile races. People used to go on 10 mile hikes, now they go on 20 mile trail runs. People don't mention their bike rides unless they've done a "century." The 2-day Seattle to Portland bike ride used to be considered an accomplishment, now the thing is to do it in one day. Etc etc.

 

[Powgirl]

I have given this thought over the years, as we have our fair share of thrill seekers out here in Colorado...

My SO is a ranger on Pikes Peak, which hosts the Hill Climb every summer. Its a very dangerous road. Last summer, during time trials, a young man went off the edge of the road on his motorcycle, killed instantly. He left behind a wife and young children...a good friend of mine lost her brother on a 14er, he also left behind a wife and young children....another friend lost her brother a few years back kayaking in white water, and he was nationally known for his skill...and then there's the pile of injuries my friends have sustained over the years with extreme activities...broken collar bones, pelvis, skill fracture, arms, legs, separated shoulders, etc.

My SO and I have taken risks, too...We have rafted thru class 4+ rapids...SO climbs 14ers with a group of guys every year, and we ladies are nervous wrecks during their climb weekends...but, at my age now, I'd rather go home than big...

 

[mustski]

I have always been perplexed by the move towards extreme risks in sports. I've always had a cautious nature so it's just something I can't wrap my brain around. I understand the adrenaline rush and the dopamine effect, however it seems that in most people there is a small voice of wisdom warning against certain actions. In fact, I believe adrenaline is your body warning you about a perceived danger. Don't get me wrong, I love that adrenaline rush as much as the next person. I get it skiing steeps, and riding roller coasters, and performing in front of a live audience. I wonder if some people stop getting the adrenaline rush and so push themselves harder and further towards greater extremes. As a parent I am just grateful that my DS doesn't seem to seek that.

 

[pinto]

"Scientists claim the existence of a risk-taking gene, a DNA variation in one of the brain’s receptors that restricts the production of dopamine – people who have it really need to raise the bar to experience excitement."

https://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/news/a7178/nik-wallenda-highwire/

I don't know too much about it, but it makes sense to me ... it goes along with liking spicy food and roller coasters and other more boring things. Some people just need more oomph to get a kick.

 

[just jane]

I think there is a sub-culture that springs up around a lot of these sports, and people's ideas of what is "extreme" and what is "safe" gets skewed. I don't think of climbing a 14-er as extreme, depending on which ones you are doing. Some of them, with high levels of exposure (oh how I hate exposure), and that require advanced skills and mountaineering equipment - sure. Others - as long as you take reasonable precautions to be off the peak before afternoon thunderstorms roll in, and keep an eye on the weather - are no more extreme than your standard everyday hike. I know a woman who summitted all of Colorado's 14ers in winter - she was only the 4th or 5th person to accomplish it - that's extreme. She doesn't come across as an adrenaline junkie at all though, and she doesn't brag about her achievements much, either.

I've also paddled class III whitewater (I've always portaged anything IV or higher) and sure, there is some risk. Honestly, rivers scare the crap out of me, but at the same time, some of the most amazing memories I have are from multi-day river trips. DH and I have also done technical canyoneering, which I love like a big lovey thing, and people routinely think of it as "extreme." It can be, but it doesn't have to be. Of course there is risk anytime you put a rope onto a natural anchor and rappel down a cliff. Yes, people have died doing it. Most of those deaths can be attributed to tragic, grave errors in human judgment, or inadequate skill. But it isn't inherently "extreme," and I don't really do it for the adrenaline rush - I do it because that's the only way to see some of the most beautiful, inspired, unique, landscapes on the planet - places that make so happy to be in them, that I literally cry. There are canyons and rivers that I will never see because I will never develop the skill level necessary to minimize my risk sufficiently, and that's okay.

I don't think I'm an "extreme" athlete, but there are definitely people in my world (like my mother, who got vertigo just looking at the Grand Canyon), who would disagree with me. To me, the idea of me being extreme - someone who is scared of heights on chairlifts, who would like a bicycle jersey with "chickenshit descender" on it - that's laughable.

I think within the subcultures of these activities, some people get used to a higher level of risk and don't necessarily think that what they're doing is extreme. People who have a lot of experience, and a lot of skill, can rightfully assess an activity and decide that it isn't such a huge risk given their backgrounds. However, the margin for error gets increasingly small, and the consequences of one tiny mistake, increasingly large.

 

[Pequenita]

I don't know too much about it, but it makes sense to me ... it goes along with liking spicy food and roller coasters and other more boring things. Some people just need more oomph to get a kick.

Ooooh, I love rollercoasters, but not the ones that spin and do loops. Love wooden rollercoasters with drops.

 

[pinto]

Yes, there are levels, and people who think climbing Mt Bierstadt is a big deal. It's really not, as you said, unless you do it at the wrong time/weather or get altitude sickness or something. But I don't think that's what this coalition is addressing -- I think it's the absolutely-no-margin-for-error stuff. You can flip a raft in whitewater and 99% of the time you will be wet but fine. That's not the case with the screw-ups they are talking about.

I had a long talk with my brother about this, he said there is definitely a changing culture with a lot of the younger (20something) backcountry skiers where he is, in a pretty demanding and dangerous environment. They don't really give a ####. They just roll the dice, don't bother with making good decisions or getting much education. It's changed in the past few years. There are also a lot skiers who have spent decades, mostly safely, in the same areas, and that's what he aspires to.

I have noticed it, too, the big lines people want to hit immediately after storms, when it used to be that skiers didn't even go there until spring, much less 12 hr after a big snow in January. Not sure what to attribute it to -- I'm sure movies play a part, because they aren't skiing that stuff in warm corn conditions. Competitions, yeah, because that's the only way to win, to go big and "advance the sport." In the past I have been a bit laissez-faire about it all, because if you are an adult, you know what you're getting yourself into. But ... there is no longer any margin for error. I think it's probably a good time that people are speaking out.

 

[deannatoby]

Nobody's mentioned what it's like to see this stuff done on film. With good editing and an exciting score, almost anyone who watches the extreme movies in any sport wishes they could do the same thing. I've been mesmerized by the stupid Go Pro promotional film at their display in a sports store!

I watched an extreme competition in person at Taos with girls going down a chute and "hucking" (where did that word come from?!) off cliffs. Absolutely NOT that interesting my when they are little specks in the chute and their "air" can barely be seen, and they look, from afar,like they are going 5 mph. But put it on film, and my heart yearns to feel so free and connected to the wild that I could fly down a snowy path only taken by mountain goats and only seen by eagles in flight. With inspiring music to back me up.

There's something about those films that connects to a part of us that wants to shed traffic and temperature controlled stuffy air and plastic everything.

 

[ski diva]

Nobody's mentioned what it's like to see this stuff done on film. With good editing and an exciting score, almost anyone who watches the extreme movies in any sport wishes they could do the same thing. I've been mesmerized by the stupid Go Pro promotional film at their display in a sports store!

I watched an extreme competition in person at Taos with girls going down a chute and "hucking" (where did that word come from?!) off cliffs. Absolutely NOT that interesting my when they are little specks in the chute and their "air" can barely be seen, and they look, from afar,like they are going 5 mph. But put it on film, and my heart yearns to feel so free and connected to the wild that I could fly down a snowy path only taken by mountain goats and only seen by eagles in flight. With inspiring music to back me up.

There's something about those films that connects to a part of us that wants to shed traffic and temperature controlled stuffy air and plastic everything.

That's just it, @deannatoby . Everyone feels that way when they watch those films, and that's why the impulse is so huge for the average, untrained person to try that stuff. That, plus the prevalence of Go-Pros. Anyone can make their own ski movie.

What a lot of people don't see in those films is the amazing amount of training, time, and effort that go into working up to doing those extreme activities, and how much of that stuff is carefully edited. They just see the end result -- a nice, smooth, perfectly executed 200-foot jump/spin/backflip -- and figure, hey, I can do that stuff. And that's where they get into trouble.

 

[deannatoby]

That's just it, @deannatoby . Everyone feels that way when they watch those films, and that's why the impulse is so huge for the average, untrained person to try that stuff.

There's something about those films that can make us feel like we've been cheated at life. At least I've felt that way. Those guys are the ones REALLY living. But you're right. You don't see the hours of training, HIKING to get to those places before a production company pays for a helicopter, and what life is like when cameras aren't rolling. I watched the documentary on the life of Shane mcconkey. He did amazing things, but, as with all of us, his life had pain. In the end I felt very blessed to have my own life. I'm not skiing with the wolves or flying with the birds, but I have been blessed.

I should walk around with inspiring music blaring around me. Maybe it will make doing laundry more ...more.... something.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Perspective.
@deannatoby, you’re raising four great kids, all great skiers(/riders!) now, home-schooling, hauling them on western trips of a lifetime.
I’d say you’ve GONE BIG. (And then some!)

I hauled DH through a very unexpected, urgent open heart surgery last December, RN’d him every step of the way, made him exhale, made him cough, pushed him out the door to walk. He skied 11+ weeks later.
We’ve both GONE BIG.
Hats off to US!

 

[pinto]

Nobody's mentioned what it's like to see this stuff done on film. With good editing and an exciting score, almost anyone who watches the extreme movies in any sport wishes they could do the same thing. I've been mesmerized by the stupid Go Pro promotional film at their display in a sports store!

I watched an extreme competition in person at Taos with girls going down a chute and "hucking" (where did that word come from?!) off cliffs. Absolutely NOT that interesting my when they are little specks in the chute and their "air" can barely be seen, and they look, from afar,like they are going 5 mph. But put it on film, and my heart yearns to feel so free and connected to the wild that I could fly down a snowy path only taken by mountain goats and only seen by eagles in flight. With inspiring music to back me up.

There's something about those films that connects to a part of us that wants to shed traffic and temperature controlled stuffy air and plastic everything.

This is all true, but I will add the caveat that (as you know) Taos was undergoing very firm and fast (ie dangerous) conditions at the time, therefore the comp saw very conservative skiing. The finals were supposed to be on Kachina, but they were moved over to Stauffenberg for safety reasons. So ... I was there and saw some, and watched some more on the live feed, and it wasn't exactly scintillating stuff, no. If you watch live feed from other comps, it's still pretty cool, even on little computer screens, w/o music and close-ups and editing.

But to the point of the thread, this was the case because the skiers and event staff (and patrol) were being conservative and not throwing caution to the wind, not going too big.

Also, we shouldn't blame Red Bull et al too much. People jump off stuff and ski dangerous terrain all the time without Go-Pros. Always have. As I said in my first post, that funky rush in your tummy takes a different stimulus for everyone. Being weightless in the air is FUN. It's why there are swingsets, for goodness sake.

 

[geargrrl]

Here's my take. Yes, there is more media exposure than ever before. But, I think the drive has always been there with a certain subset, movies or no movies. Yosemite climbers have been pushing the limits of "extreme" for decades. So have kayakers. I'm sure other sports have too. I think it's a genetic component of some people's make up that makes them seek it out. Heck, DH has been a class 5 boater for 30 years. Only now in his mid fifties is he starting to dial it back.

I'm certainly not in the "wish it was me" category when watching sports movies.

 

[pinto]

Here's my take. Yes, there is more media exposure than ever before. But, I think the drive has always been there with a certain subset, movies or no movies. Yosemite climbers have been pushing the limits of "extreme" for decades. So have kayakers. I'm sure other sports have too. I think it's a genetic component of some people's make up that makes them seek it out. Heck, DH has been a class 5 boater for 30 years. Only now in his mid fifties is he starting to dial it back.

I'm certainly not in the "wish it was me" category when watching sports movies.

I am in some of them, but only the stuff I can actually do, not straightlining a 700-ft chute or catching 100-ft cliffs (heck, even 20-ft cliffs). I get bitter and jealous watching pow skiing, though . Really, I do. I hate it, I don't watch a ton of ski films because of this.

 

[just jane]

I think the emergence of social media has played a huge role. There is so much more focus now on showing everyone how awesome you are, getting the great video or photo - and that might encourage more reckless decision-making.

Also, it's biology, with young people. We know now that brains don't fully develop until age 24-25 or so, and it is the frontal cortex that develops last - that's where our ability to exercise good judgment and reason, even when we're emotional, come in. That's why teenagers are so susceptible to peer pressure. They *do* know better, except when they don't. So you get an atmosphere with young people where they're encouraging each other to do crazy stuff, and the need for peer approval far outweighs the brain's ability at that point to exercise good judgment. (Granted, that can happen with adults, too, but they really should know better!)

 

[Albertan ski girl]

I realize that what Go Bigger Coalition et al are talking about is really the over-the-top extreme risk taking that happens. But I feel that much of this comes from cultivating risk when kids are very young. We live in Calgary - a city with lots of outdoor opportunities and a lot of money. In Canada, it's very similar to Tahoe, or Colorado, in that everyone is into the outdoors in really big ways. Every time we go out to do something with the kids we see kids with the most expensive gear, most expensive helmets etc doing crazy things. We had DS enrolled in a mountain biking summer camp last year - and I think he is quite a good mountain biker, can handle a lot of trails, go all day etc. But what some of the kids in the camp were doing was crazy. There was one kid in particular, expensive Kona bike, expensive safety gear, big helmet, taking all the risks. On the second to last day of the camp, he hit a roller wrong, went flying and broke his collarbone. There have been a lot of advances in safety gear, especially for kids, but they can't be a replacement for teaching kids how to respect nature, but also know the limits of their bodies and their equipment. It's a big part of the reason we've really focused on spending time with the kids outdoors rather than putting them into freeskiing programs, or bike clinics etc. There is a part of me that is a little uncomfortable about the kinds of attitudes to sport that they can be exposed to in those kinds of programs. I totally agree with @contesstant that the last part of the article was the one that really hit home for me. I'd rather have a lifetime of happiness in the mountains than one 12 second burst.

 

[ling]

Teenagers and young adults have been doing risky things for ages. they egg each other on, pulling the biggest stunt they can think of. Mothers just didn't hear much about them until the phone call from the hospital.

What's changed is the internet. Now the peer group is HUGE! The biggest stunt locally isn't half as big as the one the kid half way across the country at Tahoe pulled off! So what to do next? Let's try that big stunt! In effect, you have MORE kids trying bigger stunts as a whole. Of course, more injuries.

Now to the top tier of that risk embracing group, the 20 something pro or hope-to-be-pro athletes. They too, gets to share bigger and riskier stunt with other top tier athletes half way across the globe. Has any of you seen that youtube clip of a kid doing some crazy BMX stunt across the rooftop of Greece, with a final summersault into the sea? If you're the risk taking kind and have had quite a bit of skill and success, won't you want to try to create something even crazier to top that?

 

[cornysnow]

Teenagers and young adults have been doing risky things for ages. they egg each other on, pulling the biggest stunt they can think of. Mothers just didn't hear much about them until the phone call from the hospital.

What's changed is the internet. Now the peer group is HUGE! The biggest stunt locally isn't half as big as the one the kid half way across the country at Tahoe pulled off! So what to do next? Let's try that big stunt! In effect, you have MORE kids trying bigger stunts as a whole. Of course, more injuries.

I couldn't agree more. Like the snowboarder that tumbled down a cliff at the Palisades at Squaw-- in the video you can hear his friends egging him on in the background, even though he's clearly not mentally prepared to make that jump. After he falls, you hear cheering and clapping like he just accomplished a good thing instead of doing something foolish that easily could have killed him. With all the videos on the internet of expert skiers making jumps from the Palisades, it almost looks attainable and easy, only because those skiers have the skill and grace to make it look easy.