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Expert skis for intermediates? Good or bad - thoughts?

socalskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
They have the centuries in 156 and 166 at the REI in Tustin, CA on sale for $399. What a steal! I bought mine earlier this season and LOVE LOVE LOVE them. If you have an REI close, see if they'll ship to the store. It's the best deal around right now.

I can't wait to take my Centuries to Mammoth this weekend for the 6-8 feet of fresh pow they just got!
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Moved here 10 years ago with a much heavier set-up (yikes to carrying/hauling it :() - gradually went lighter over the years, as did body weight, made a huge difference in performance for me, also endurance, given that I've got +-30 years of wear and tear/life on my body/knees over you. :wink:

Hm....I dunno if it's that many years on me! :smile: Throw me in the "old habit die hard" camp - I just haven't found light skis that I like. But believe me, my backcountry/powder setup is for sure way lighter than my resort skis.
 

Appennini gal

Certified Ski Diva
Two years ago my daughter was a lower level skier than me, but she is very athletic - a former gymnast - so she's extremely well conditioned with good leg strength. She soon started to overpower the softer flexing novice Dynastar ski she had. We demoed some skis, and she loved the performance of the Nordica Firefox, classified as an advance/expert ski. So she bought them. A less athletic skier would have problems being able to flex the ski (me!), but other than flex they carve easily.

That's pretty much my experience, I switched from a soft Dynastar to the Firefox but, like Maggie's daughter, I have strong legs which definitely help flexing them. Do I think an easier ski would have helped me progress quicker? Probably, it took me a while to get used to the speed of the Firefox.
 

smartjingle

Certified Ski Diva
I think there's a difference between a skier's true ability and their ability on good equipment? Because if you put an advanced skier on beginner skis, they won't fall everywhere because they have experience already. So I think when a skier reaches that stage, they can ski whatever, and this debate of skis being too advanced becomes moot. But that's just my two cents. :P
 

mtngirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think there's a difference between a skier's true ability and their ability on good equipment? Because if you put an advanced skier on beginner skis, they won't fall everywhere because they have experience already. So I think when a skier reaches that stage, they can ski whatever, and this debate of skis being too advanced becomes moot. But that's just my two cents. :P

actually, an expert would most likely over ski beginner equipment, and have issues, and have to readjust their "style" for it...
 

mountainxtc

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Here's my $0.02....

Skis have ability ratings for a reason. There is absolutely no reason that a beginner can't ski on an expert ski and an expert can't ski on a beginner ski. But....

A beginner ski simply won't handle the forces encountered in expert skiing. An expert skier will not be able to ski as - well - expertly (for lack of a better term!) on that equipment for that reason.

As for being "over - skied", it is possible, if not probable that an intermediate will feel more stable on an advanced ski, especially on terrain that they are already comfortable on. But there's a huge but here. It will be much harder for them to improve upon their current skills on such a setup. For a more advanced ski to perform as intended it requires more forces, most notably more speed. To learn a new skill effectively you need to learn it at slower speeds on easier terrain before you build it up into your regular skiing, and more advanced skis just don't allow for this in the same way. Especially when learning things such as bumps or soft snow conditions.

So my advice is this: if you are an intermediate, go for an intermediate ski. Yes, you will outgrow it, but you will improve much much faster and that, IMHO, is worth the $$s alone.
 

litterbug

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The word on the Interwebs is that a truly good skier--one with great skills--can comfortably ski any kind of snow on any ski. Hey, in 1988 even I skied steep February Alta ice and crud on leather Asolo boots and 180 long, 55mm wide Fisher Europa Crown telemark skis (with fish scales!), which looked something like this:https://www.fischerskis.com/en/products_ski.php5?parent=60027&show=detail&id_product=18914. And oh, the steep blues were sweet then on soft snow. :p

Of course it's easier for even for a expert to do all that and more on shaped skis, to say nothing of the "correct" skis for the conditions. Whereas I had trouble with those lovely Kenjas because they're just not easy to ski moderately--they want to go fast, and I don't, yet. I didn't fall, but they were quite the handful!
 

Bumblebee

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I had a bad few days recently on my "expert" skis - bit the bullet and rented something easier for a few days - got my mojo back and all was good again.

When I'm skiing great they're a fantastic ride - but if my game is off then an easier ski brings the pleasure (and confidence) back.
 

valli

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I demoed the Century's on Monday and loved them. So much so that I bought the last pair at the local REI yesterday. I am 5'2 and felt the 156 was perfect. It skied longer than the Rossi 110's in a 159.
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
Skis have ability ratings for a reason.
...an intermediate will feel more stable on an advanced ski, especially on terrain that they are already comfortable on. But there's a huge but here. It will be much harder for them to improve upon their current skills on such a setup. For a more advanced ski to perform as intended it requires more forces, most notably more speed. To learn a new skill effectively you need to learn it at slower speeds on easier terrain before you build it up into your regular skiing, and more advanced skis just don't allow for this in the same way. Especially when learning things such as bumps or soft snow conditions.

So my advice is this: if you are an intermediate, go for an intermediate ski. Yes, you will outgrow it, but you will improve much much faster and that, IMHO, is worth the $$s alone.

From our resident super instructor.
Thanks for that.
 

badger

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
When a relatively new skier is ready to purchase skis, my belief is that those skier ability ratings should be regarded. As for "just for fun" demo days , maybe not so much.

I would like to think that most ski shops are reputable, where sales match the needs/attributes of the skier, before the dreams of the skier. With some latitude.

Last fall I happened to overhear a salesman chatting up a lady who was buying her first pair of skis. In this case the buyer's newfound enthusiasm was mistaken for ability. The spiel went something like this : "Now here's a great ski you can grow into and keep for years. This way you'll be saving dollars in the long run. Don't worry that magazines might say it's for an advanced skier; most of them say that because the testers ARE experts. You'll quickly move from those green slopes to the black runs in no time at all." TA-CHING!!!

In my own experience I have had a couple of demos that provided some measurable insights into the realm of higher-spectrum skis. (above my level, shall I say)
The first demo I had was from a tent slopeside. I was an advancing beginner and was handed a pair of Burnin' Luvs...probably too long.(K2 sizing) My knowledge of this ski yelled, "NO."
My acquiescing brain fart said, "He-Knows-Better-Than-You. Take it."

The second foray into demoland was on a ski I selected myself. I was a middling intermediate and chose a ski labeled advanced-expert. This ski boosted my confidence via the assets that come built into this level and drove me to terrain I'd have passed by otherwise.
An incredible experience. BUT....and it's a BIG one… just because the ski took me to a refreshing level of confidence, it did not come equipped with the skills to manage these new slopes for long. Now the very ski that got me there is punishing me for struggling to stay there.

The advanced- expert ski might be able to stretch us, but only so far. A beginner or intermediate cannot truly---if they are honest with themselves---handle the demands of a top ski. Most of them are simply Too Stiff, Too Stiff, and often Too Long for the skiing ability. Which brings me to a parallel isssue…

I am somewhat bemused by the senseless rush to ski Black slopes. Is this a Medal of Honor thing or what?
How many times do we see folks slowly navigating their snowplows across and down the hill, while the experienced skiers are halting so abruptly they risk injury to themselves and others? A beginner or low intermediate is not suddenly and advanced skier because he completed a higher-level run. Employing steeper terrain for development and honing of basic tools is game improvement, but refusing to return to easier slopes until those skills are coming together, is just plain stupid.

To the original thread question----sorry for the vent---: If a newer or lower level skier is using advanced-expert skis that they have found to be “not so hard” on the slopes of their comfort zone, they will be SOL when suddenly they find themselves losing control and discovering that the only tool left in the box is the How-To-Conquer-Panic while side-slipping all the way to the nearest restroom…next to the bar.

I figure if the equipment starts to work against you from the get-go, better to dial down to a ski that will help you become so skillful that you NEED to move up. And what could be better than that?
 

badger

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Too Stiff, Too Fast, and often Too Long for the skiing ability. ( Had to fix this sentence from the previous post.)
 

maggie198

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The spiel went something like this : "Now here's a great ski you can grow into and keep for years. This way you'll be saving dollars in the long run. Don't worry that magazines might say it's for an advanced skier; most of them say that because the testers ARE experts. You'll quickly move from those green slopes to the black runs in no time at all."

Oh my word! That oughta be illegal!


I am somewhat bemused by the senseless rush to ski Black slopes. Is this a Medal of Honor thing or what?
How many times do we see folks slowly navigating their snowplows across and down the hill, while the experienced skiers are halting so abruptly they risk injury to themselves and others? A beginner or low intermediate is not suddenly and advanced skier because he completed a higher-level run.

This is one of my pet peeves. Seeing snowplowers crawling their way down a black diamond slope. The trail becomes clogged with new skiers in over their heads, and what skills are going to be learned by this? It's better to go to a slope you can handle and work on developing those skills. Going down a black diamond tail does not make one an advanced skier!

What really makes me angry, though, is when I've seen dads take their young kids down steep expert mogul runs, yelling, pushing and bullying the crying terrified youngster into making their way down. I've seen this a lot. It strikes me as extremely abusive. What lesson of any value is the kid going to learn, since they obviously can't ski the slope?
 

litterbug

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Badger, being a bit of a ranter myself, I think you do it well. That poor woman--I've had the enthusiasm-must-mean-skill problem myself, and people encouraged me to find the toughest ski I could stay, which just activated my residual tough-girl thinking. Now I know with my skiing level and abilities I need a ski that won't yell at me. I don't need to be babied, but I need a ski that I can ski, rather than it skiing me. Yes, I'll demo the Aura, but that's just for kicks and comparison--yes, dear, here's the end of your spectrum; now let's find something you can grow on now, instead of being so anxious to go beyond your limits. Life is too short to waste time inflating my ego.

On the other hand I've gotten off on ski and snowboard porn filmed with a helmet cam. I guess I just like to watch...
 

smartjingle

Certified Ski Diva
actually, an expert would most likely over ski beginner equipment, and have issues, and have to readjust their "style" for it...

Most likely over? Sorry I don't think I understood that...
and yes, of course everyone would need to adjust to a new pair of skis :smile: but I'm talking relatively, an advanced skier on any skis would still ski better than a beginner skier.
 

litterbug

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think she meant to say "over-ski" the equipment.

I doubt that an expert would over-ski beginner equipment for more than half a minute, at which point she'd simply dial things back. But the expert would know the gear's characteristics long before she finished putting it on and wonder what possesses her to use it. That's my ski-anywhere-on-anything friend.

That's the kind of thing that makes for an expert in any discipline--reading the situation and adjusting yourself accordingly. And I'm sure that expert would still be able to do things with that equipment that I couldn't imagine.
 

vanhoskier

Angel Diva
To the original thread question----sorry for the vent---: If a newer or lower level skier is using advanced-expert skis that they have found to be “not so hard” on the slopes of their comfort zone, they will be SOL when suddenly they find themselves losing control and discovering that the only tool left in the box is the How-To-Conquer-Panic while side-slipping all the way to the nearest restroom…next to the bar.

I figure if the equipment starts to work against you from the get-go, better to dial down to a ski that will help you become so skillful that you NEED to move up. And what could be better than that?

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
B

B.E.G.

Guest
Thank you all for responding! I've had a great time reading this thread - I knew it would generate a really good discussion.

Obviously, I have a personal stake in this as I ski on advanced/expert skis (Volkl Kenjas) and when I got them I was at an intermediate level (though according to my instructors I really understate my ability level). I get comments from the instructors in the beginning that I drive a really big ski (width and length) but at the end of the lesson they also tell me that I ski them really well (not being skied by them).

I do realize, as many of you have said, that there's a much steeper learning curve sometimes. I learned to carve on the Kenjas. It was kind of hard, with the wider waist. I learned it, I can do it, and then I went and demoed frontside skis today and wow, while it was tougher learning all of this on the Kenjas, it translated VERY easily to a skinnier ski. My Kenjas are definitely more work to ski, as I realized when I bought them (and I realized it even more strongly today) and thank goodness I like challenges! I know this type of approach won't work for everyone.

Honestly, I TOTALLY got lucky that I've been able to push myself up closer to the level my skis need to be skied at and that I was able to do it relatively quickly after getting them. Total luck but it works for me, but in 99% of cases, I would definitely agree with everyone else that it's important to get the ski that fits your level.

So thank you all and if anyone else has more thoughts please keep the discussion going!
 

lynseyf

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Actually looking at the Volkl website the Kenjas are rated for mid to higher intermediates

https://www.volkl.com/ski/ski_WM_kenja.php

I was looking at this as I bought a pair of Auras at Christmas after skiing the Unisex Bridges for a year. I really liked the Bridges but the shape of the 2 skis is similar so I was thinking of selling one. My boyfriend has been skiing my Bridges as he broke a binding so I have skied the Auras the last 4 times I've been skiing soft snow. I went out yesterday on the Bridges for the first time since I got the Auras and they are a LOT stiffer. I quite often like stiff skis and am strong enough and heavy enough that what is stiff for a lighter skier is often not as stiff for me. However skiing the Auras for a while has made me appreciate a softer ski (relative to the Bridges and for my weight). The conditons yesterday were nice but quite hard going, very soft, wet snow with some harder chunks on top and lots of bumps. I was fine on shallower slopes but skiing a steeper black at the end of the day my legs got tired and I was aware of how heavy and stiff my skis felt. The Bridges and Auras are both rated the same of Volkls website, high intermediate by my reading of the scale, but the Bridge is a unisex stiff and much stiffer.
 

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