Help Needed: Cheater skis and Nastar

[tinymoose]

So I ran Nastar for the first time a couple weeks back. I did not crash, I did not miss a gate, and I was less than 2 seconds from a bronze medal on my best run. I know that doesn't sound great, but I was pretty pleased with that! I've got low expectations for Nastar at this point. lol.

I ended up skiing my Kenjas, because frankly, I'm just not comfortable on the Racetiger Jr.'s yet. They're WAY softer than my Kenjas and I haven't gotten to a point where I trust them... like at all. The race skis are also 149, and I'm beginning to think I got them way too short, especially given how soft they feel. I'm actually able to get more speed and better edge angles on my Kenjas, I think mostly because I'm a head case.

Anyhow, given how much I don't like the softness of the Racetigers, I was thinking maybe I should swap them out at the end of this year for a pair of adult cheater skis. Any recs? Are any of the below even a true cheater ski?

Here are some I've been contemplating:

Elan Speed Magic (was there a predecessor to this ski I could find cheaper?)
Volkl Allura (I really, really liked the Charisma, but it's too wide for Nastar. ya think the Allura would be similar but narrower? They're 75 at the waist... still too wide? Was the Fuego the predecessor to the Allura?)
Dynastar Elite Pro (wonder if these will be stiff enough for my liking? was there a similar predecessor to these?)

I've also toyed with the idea of changing the Racetigers out for Atomic's D2 Jr. GS skis. Everyone says Atomic is way stiffer as far as Jr. race skis goes.

I'm still planning to take a "racing" private lesson on the Racetigers this season, before I throw in the towel. It's very likely I could be the problem. But something is just not clicking between the skis and I at this point. So I'm open to alternatives, as well. Preferably, cheap/used alternatives.

 

[Tammy]

I'm really happy with my Nordica Dobermann Jr. GS skis. They are 163 cm, have a 17m radius and might be a little less stiff than the Racetigers. They were cheap and if you can get a pair of 2013s or 2012s you might be able to use the same bindings from your racetigers on them (Guessing you're using Marker M12s or whatever on those). Good luck!!! Isn't it addicting?

 

[Jilly]

Dynastar elite Pro's .....I just demo'd those and if I didn't have the attraxion 12's...they would be in the quiver!!

 

[tinymoose]

I'm really happy with my Nordica Dobermann Jr. GS skis. They are 163 cm, have a 17m radius and might be a little less stiff than the Racetigers. They were cheap and if you can get a pair of 2013s or 2012s you might be able to use the same bindings from your racetigers on them (Guessing you're using Marker M12s or whatever on those). Good luck!!! Isn't it addicting?

Noooo... I'm looking for more stiff, not less stiff.

 

[Jilly]

Dynastar will be stiffer. I would call them a tuned down race ski actually. Another is the Rossi 8S oversize. It's the 9 without the metal.

 

[Tammy]

Noooo... I'm looking for more stiff, not less stiff.

This is what I get for posting before coffee . Sorry .

Anyhoo.

I also have the Elan Speed Magics from a few years ago in a 155. I used them last year when I started getting into racing and they're also quite lovely. If you give them a race tune and keep 'em sharp they perform quite admirably. There might be some sales on last year's models online.

I'd say that they're a tad less stiff than my Nordica Jr. GS boards, but your mileage may vary.

Do you have a chance to demo any race boards where you live?

Good luck in whatever race boards you choose .

 

[volklgirl]

You got the jr GS ski, not the SL, right? If so, I'd guess you went way too short (although make sure your boot is centered on the ski's mounting mark as mounting too far forward can cause them to feel too short and too soft). For NASTAR, you can typically run a longer ski than you'd normally ski (my carvers are 168, twins are 177, and GS boards are 180).

 

[jellyflake]

Wouldn't there be any rules that restrict ski dimensions?
Like minimum and maximum size/width/radius?

If there is a set of restrictions check these first to ensure your new skis will fit.

 

[tinymoose]

Wouldn't there be any rules that restrict ski dimensions?
Like minimum and maximum size/width/radius?

If there is a set of restrictions check these first to ensure your new skis will fit.

Nope! No rules on the skis you use. I've used my Kenjas the two times I've run Nastar.

 

[tinymoose]

You got the jr GS ski, not the SL, right? If so, I'd guess you went way too short (although make sure your boot is centered on the ski's mounting mark as mounting too far forward can cause them to feel too short and too soft). For NASTAR, you can typically run a longer ski than you'd normally ski (my carvers are 168, twins are 177, and GS boards are 180).

I did get the jr. GS in a 149, which is way short for a GS ski for someone of my height. I did that because I was worried about something longer feeling too uncontrollable as a newbie to racing. I think I'm beginning to regret that choice. Would a shorter SL ski feel stiffer since it's intended to be a shorter ski? I'm 5'1"... how long would be an appropriate length for me for a GS ski for Nastar? 149 is the length of my Kenjas. I feel weird that I don't trust the Racetigers, but they just feel so unstable to me at this point. I'll check the mounting point too.

 

[MissySki]

I did get the jr. GS in a 149, which is way short for a GS ski for someone of my height. I did that because I was worried about something longer feeling too uncontrollable as a newbie to racing. I think I'm beginning to regret that choice. Would a shorter SL ski feel stiffer since it's intended to be a shorter ski? I'm 5'1"... how long would be an appropriate length for me for a GS ski for Nastar? 149 is the length of my Kenjas. I feel weird that I don't trust the Racetigers, but they just feel so unstable to me at this point. I'll check the mounting point too.

Maybe you need the next size up? I really like my 163 and feel very stable on them. I know I could go longer, but for my purposes they do well. . Is there a 150 something size? Could it also be an issue of being an older very used ski that's making it feel soft too? I've had that experience on demo skis before where they are noodle like and then I bought new and they were more stable than the demo. I don't find my Racetigers excessively soft or stiff for whatever that's worth.

 

[tinymoose]

I think they also come in a 156, as far as the next size up. I probably should have gone with that. We did talk to the Volkl rep at the demo day we went to, and he did say I'd find the jr. race skis to be softer than my Kenjas.

@volklgirl - posting pics from my phone of the boots in the binding. the race plate doesn't seem to have an idiot proof boot center mark on it, unless that's what those lines under the boot center are for?

 

[Tammy]

You got the jr GS ski, not the SL, right? If so, I'd guess you went way too short (although make sure your boot is centered on the ski's mounting mark as mounting too far forward can cause them to feel too short and too soft). For NASTAR, you can typically run a longer ski than you'd normally ski (my carvers are 168, twins are 177, and GS boards are 180).

^^^What Volklgirl said. ^^^

Tinymoose, I'm the same height as you (5'1") and, ahem, built like a dwarf. The main reason that I have Nordica 163 Jr. GS skis is because of my very small boot sole length (260 mm) not fitting an adult race plate. I wouldn't shy away from a longer ski. In my own experience, a longer race ski that's been freshly tuned, waxed, sharpened has more stability at speed within a course. It took some getting used to though, so if you do get a longer GS ski I'd practice with them first so you can get a feel for them. I find with mine that they have a tiny bit of forgiveness to them but not much. They perform best when I make sure I'm pressuring both of them throughout each turn. If I get in the back seat or don't give the tips the pressure they need to carve, they will throw me!

Oh, also in my experience, if you go to a ski shop and start looking at the longer skis, sometimes the staff will try to steer you away from them. Just tell them you're looking for race skis. Good luck.

 

[volklgirl]

There should be a tiny "I" shaped mark on the sidewall of the ski and the raised center mark of the boot should sit right over that.

156 would likely be the right length for you for Nastar. I know you just got those, but I'd either go with a longer GS or an even longer SL if the race crew tends to give you tight sets.

I've been racing on DH's World Cup SLs in a 165, but we have a really short, flat hill and they're setting fairly wide gates with tight turns so racing on my GS skis would require using skills that I've lost after 5 years of just freeskiing. If they do set straight gates at the end, those SLs feel waaaaay short and squirelly - fortunately I've freeskied them enough to be able to deal with that feeling on the race course.

 

[BitchHound]

I use Fischer RC4 Superrace RC skies @ 165 cm for my racing. We do GS style courses with a pitch typical of blue or blue/black runs (the Superrace comes in an SC version with shorter radii for more slalom like courses). The Superrace is more forgiving than I expected. I could have gone to 170 cm or even 175 cm. I am 5'6" and way too heavy (210 ouch!). I have seen reviews which suggest this ski is fairly woman friendly for a stronger skier. I think the Fischer RC4 Superior Pro is the 2014 replacement for the Superrace, but this is speculation on my part.

 

[BitchHound]

I use Fischer RC4 Superrace RC skies @ 165 cm for my racing. We do GS style courses with a pitch typical of blue or blue/black runs (the Superrace comes in an SC version with shorter radii for more slalom like courses). The Superrace is more forgiving than I expected. I could have gone to 170 cm or even 175 cm. I am 5'6" and way too heavy (210 ouch!). I have seen reviews which suggest this ski is fairly woman friendly for a stronger skier. I think the Fischer RC4 Superior Pro is the 2014 replacement for the Superrace, but this is speculation on my part.

Correction! I got the SC variant. Could not find the RC variant at a good price/size so I settled for the SC.

 

[volklgirl]

Hehe....funny that we're very close in weight and racing on very similar skis.

 

[BitchHound]

Hehe....funny that we're very close in weight and racing on very similar skis.

I need to stretch my length and go to a more challenging ski. I thought getting something race like would present enough challenge, but I have progressed quicker than expected last year and this. If I do the same next year I may be chattering all the way down the course. However, my DH would kill me if new skis show up on the doorstep! I am already going to get "that look" when my new helmet and goggles arrives tomorrow. Doh!

 

[tinymoose]

UPDATE: So we think we may have a guess on what is up/wrong with the Racetigers. I skied them during our racing semi-private (DH and me) this past week, and after the lesson we just kept lapping the same blue run over and over. I was determined to figure out how the Racetigers wanted to be skied, since obviously the skis and I weren't gelling. First run down DH made the comment that I wasn't carving on them at all, which was a major head-scratcher since I can get the Kenjas on edge and they're much wider (87 vs 68). So 2nd run down I pinched every inch of my side that I could and laid the skis over as far as I could until I found the edge. And I carved (yay!) and felt the edges bite (FINALLY!), but it was insane how difficult it was to get them on edge. A lot more work than my Kenjas. Then DH mentioned that Dieter had said that he thought the base angle might be over 1 when he adjusted the bindings for my boots, and that I should ski them a couple times before having them tuned. So if the base angle is really over 1, that may be why I feel like it's so hard to get them on edge. So we're going to take them in to be tuned and see how they ski after that.

 

[MissySki]

Interesting! Hope this is a simple fix, my base edge is at 0.75 degrees.

I'm curious though what the instructor had to say overall in the lesson, since it seems you guys were still trying to figure out the problem yourselves after the lesson?? Was it a good lesson in general?