Article: BOA - It's not just a closure system

[santacruz skier]

Getting into the boots is my biggest issue. I have solved it 2 ways in the past .... the best one is a heated bootleg for two hours before I need to put them on. The other is blast of a blow dryer into the boot first and on the tongue and forfeit second. That's why I had to carry that little backpack with the dryer at Northstart. Bob was in new boots and couldn't get back into them without heating but they weren't broken in enough to stay comfortable at lunch.

If you want to set up an appointment with Tricia, you are welcome to stay at our house in Reno. If we're not there, we can give you a code to get in.

So nice of you @mustski ! I do remember the little backpack at Northstar. My joke is I have to stay slope side or shuttle as I can't boot up in the car. I would never get into my boots standing at the tailgate. Seriously.

 

[SarahXC]

Another cyclist that has enjoyed boa closures for a decade on my cycling shoes. I’m looking forward to what might be available when I need my next pair of ski boots!

 

[SnowHot]

Also, since I've been skiing in tele boots for ages, I didn't even realize BOA wasn't a thing for basically all boots already! I've had that for like a decade. And on my cycling shoes too for a long time.

Anyway, big thumbs up from me!

Thank you. This is what we've been saying for several months now.

 

[SnowHot]

Getting into the boots is my biggest issue. I have solved it 2 ways in the past .... the best one is a heated bootleg for two hours before I need to put them on. The other is blast of a blow dryer into the boot first and on the tongue and forfeit second. That's why I had to carry that little backpack with the dryer at Northstart. Bob was in new boots and couldn't get back into them without heating but they weren't broken in enough to stay comfortable at lunch.

If you want to set up an appointment with Tricia, you are welcome to stay at our house in Reno. If we're not there, we can give you a code to get in.

Or she can come when you're there and we'll have a get together

 

[santacruz skier]

Or she can come when you're there and we'll have a get together

Or come to Steamboat !

 

[scandium]

I mean, I just assume anymore that Atomic is the penultimate "king" of low volume. I say this as a person who has only ever worn a boot out of the box in the form of an Atomic Redster 70 LC, but I also get that I doubt anyone is gonna bring Boa to junior boots (me). But Atomic really does a stellar job at low volume (and I have a high instep that works against the rest of my foot).

I think Matt Manser is on record (maybe on Blister?) saying that he specifically wants to make sure Atomic has good LV offerings due to his own issues with a narrow foot.

@MissySki I'm not sure if you've seen this IG Reel but it shows the uniform way the BOA adjusts around the forefoot.

ski.tech.review. on Instagram: "Demonstrating how the BOA system wraps the foot using a Salomon S/Pro Supra model #salomon #salomonfreeski #salomonski #boa #skiboots #spro #supra #dial #cables #skiing #ski #boots #freeski #allnew"

3,140 likes, 126 comments - ski.tech.review on March 15, 2023: "Demonstrating how the BOA system wraps the foot using a Salomon S/Pro Supra model #salomon #salomonfreeski #salomonski #boa #skiboots #s...".

www.instagram.com

Interesting - my thought from the point of view of having sensitive bunions/bunionettes is that this is not the closure system I want in my boot. The forefoot boa looks like it would make "dialling in" fit harder, I think, because I wouldn't be able to independently tighten the higher instep buckle and leave the one right over my metatarsal heads undone which is what I have done while fine tuning with my fitter how much space was needed. Lateral pressure from tightness on my metatarsal heads usually makes my 1st and 5th MTPJ red and swollen and then I have pain or occasionally numbness due to the pressure (the latter experienced only in snowboard boots which are a different kind of fit hell as there is no such thing as an adjustable shell). Equally, slopping around means they will bang the sides of the boot which is a different kind of pain, so it is a balance between not creating too much space for them to bang into and having enough space to not inflame them.

I do like the ease of use of boa in my snowboard boots but find even then I mostly leave the forefoot undone due to lack of bunion space, as even tightening is the opposite of what I want.

 

[SnowHot]

The forefoot boa looks like it would make "dialling in" fit harder, I think,

Thank you for taking the time to share your personal experience.

I do think some of the things that makes me a good bootfitter are:

I have my own issues with my feet including super low volume
High instep/surfer's knot
A bunion on my right foot that has been more than a little painful at times
I've expreienced bootfitters who act like gods and don't listen, so I make sure to listen

Because of all of this I try to address all of it in my gear reviews.
Its also because of this that the pressure on my bunion and instep are foremost in my analysis when I review a boot.

I hope I don't come across as a cheerleader for BOA. I am not. I am, however a cheerleader for new technology that can make certain things better for a segment of the market. This will do that.

So, I have the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD BOA Boot in my test fleet. It's a very narrow boot (the most narrow of the offerings at this time with BOA)
I did do a small bunion punch on it and skied it the most of any I've tried so far and had no issues with my bunion pressure. So you can do the same modifications on these that you can do on a traditional boot for specific issues.

For reference, here is a video we did on the Atomic Hawx Ultra

 

[SarahXC]

I think, because I wouldn't be able to independently tighten the higher instep buckle and leave the one right over my metatarsal heads undone

I wonder if the ski boot boa applications might evolve to include more than one independent boa system like some cycling and trail running shoes do…

 

[SnowHot]

There is a lot more to come with the R&D of this technology as it relates to ski boots and much much more.

 

[scandium]

Thank you for taking the time to share your personal experience.

I do think some of the things that makes me a good bootfitter are:

I have my own issues with my feet including super low volume
High instep/surfer's knot
A bunion on my right foot that has been more than a little painful at times
I've expreienced bootfitters who act like gods and don't listen, so I make sure to listen

Because of all of this I try to address all of it in my gear reviews.
Its also because of this that the pressure on my bunion and instep are foremost in my analysis when I review a boot.

I hope I don't come across as a cheerleader for BOA. I am not. I am, however a cheerleader for new technology that can make certain things better for a segment of the market. This will do that.

So, I have the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD BOA Boot in my test fleet. It's a very narrow boot (the most narrow of the offerings at this time with BOA)
I did do a small bunion punch on it and skied it the most of any I've tried so far and had no issues with my bunion pressure. So you can do the same modifications on these that you can do on a traditional boot for specific issues.

For reference, here is a video we did on the Atomic Hawx Ultra

Yup, I like the movement to introduce Boa to ski boots for sure - but a system that adjusts the entire "foot" area at once seems likely to make my life worse rather than better (not the fact that it is a Boa vs buckles). I would also avoid a boot with single lower buckles for the same reasoning, that I can't loosen at a specific point without loosening off my whole foot.
I am interested to see how this evolves and have been following some of the articles/podcasts - in my mind the big one will be Boa replacing upper buckles in a way that doesn't make the ski boot impossible to put on!

I wonder if the ski boot boa applications might evolve to include more than one independent boa system like some cycling and trail running shoes do… View attachment 21710

I need this in my snowboard boots as well!

 

[mustski]

Or she can come when you're there and we'll have a get together

Or I can make a point of being in Reno when she wants to come. We could try to get @WaterGirl there at the same time!

 

[SnowHot]

Yup, I like the movement to introduce Boa to ski boots for sure - but a system that adjusts the entire "foot" area at once seems likely to make my life worse rather than better (not the fact that it is a Boa vs buckles). I would also avoid a boot with single lower buckles for the same reasoning, that I can't loosen at a specific point without loosening off my whole foot.
I am interested to see how this evolves and have been following some of the articles/podcasts - in my mind the big one will be Boa replacing upper buckles in a way that doesn't make the ski boot impossible to put on!


I need this in my snowboard boots as well!

I respect your thought process and you can do whatever you think is best for you.
As a woman who has a large bunion and has tested this with BOA, I will still say it is not a concern in this application because I've done put it through the testing process on myself.

 

[altagirl]

I respect your thought process and you can do whatever you think is best for you.
As a woman who has a large bunion and has tested this with BOA, I will still say it is not a concern in this application because I've done put it through the testing process on myself.

I think the main thing is the boot or shoe still has to FIT.

Sure, my cycling shoes have the double adjusters and while yes, it's nice to have that option, so did my last pair that fit terribly and went in the donation bin. I had to search for an eternity to find a road shoe with an extra extra wide last and then heat mold them and go figure... now I can tighten both BOA segments without forefoot pain. But no amount of adjustable buckles fixes something being the wrong shape to start with.

Also amazingly, my fancy new road shoes are metallic teal and match my bike. And at that point in my search they could have looked like literally anything, LOL.

 

[SnowHot]

I think the main thing is the boot or shoe still has to FIT.

Sure, my cycling shoes have the double adjusters and while yes, it's nice to have that option, so did my last pair that fit terribly and went in the donation bin. I had to search for an eternity to find a road shoe with an extra extra wide last and then heat mold them and go figure... now I can tighten both BOA segments without forefoot pain.

Also amazingly, my fancy new road shoes are metallic teal and match my bike. And at that point in my search they could have looked like literally anything, LOL.

Exactly!
If a boot (or shoe) doesn't fit, then you're still chasing issues and hot spots, no matter they type of closure.

I've always had to do a bunion punch and press the tongue of my right boot due to bunion and high instep, and with a skinny foot otherwise, I'm always in a low volume boot.
In my testing, I have only about 5 days in the Salomon because its a medium last and I couldn't keep my foot stable in the boot after just a few days.

The Atomic XTD Ultra works for me a lot better because its narrower, but I needed to bunion punch it.
@scandium may or may not find a good fit in a BOA option to try on, but that is entirely up to her and her fitter.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

Interesting. As a very, very low volume foot-have, I’m really curious to see where this tech goes. I’d love to have separate boa closures for different zones, maybe something that could snug up a crazy low instep.

A bit of a side question - is it impossible to do canting on a boot like the Hawks XTD, or just more complicated?

 

[SnowHot]

Interesting. As a very, very low volume foot-have, I’m really curious to see where this tech goes. I’d love to have separate boa closures for different zones, maybe something that could snug up a crazy low instep.

A bit of a side question - is it impossible to do canting on a boot like the Hawks XTD, or just more complicated?

The sole on the XTD is integrated and can not be canted. I do, however, believe that new offerings in low volume boots will be coming tha can be canted.

For reference check the video in post #47