Abandoning/pushing beginners

[AnnKH]

I had two experiences at Whitefish last week that made me sad. The first was a teenaged snowboarder on his butt, at the top of a blue run, asking me if I would help him up. Of course I did, and he told me it was only his third time on a board (not surprising, since he couldn't stand himself up). I told him he was not going to be very happy in the direction he was headed - he should stick to a green run. He replied "But my friends went this way!"

I told him his friends were jerks, and suggested he take off his board, walk a little way back up the hill, and head down on a green run (I gave him specific directions). The thought of this poor kid trying to struggle down a long run, far past his ability, boiled my blood. At least on a green run with more traffic, there would be someone else to help him up if necessary - he was headed into a quiet area.

The next day, I saw a woman struggling with a trail map, so I stopped to ask what she was looking for. She was on a green run traversing the mountain; a man who turned out to be her DH was partway down a steep blue, waiting for her. The conditions that day were lousy - icy and crusty, difficult enough for those of us accustomed to it, and terrifying for this woman making snowplow turns. When I asked what she was looking for, she said "The easiest way down!" she was on the verge of tears. She explained that her DH is very athletic and a good skier, and he kept telling her she could ski much harder runs than she was ready for. She had spent the morning in a lesson on the bunny hill.

I escorted her along the nice green trail, and showed her how to get where she was going. We ended up on a green run with my condo at the bottom - I was on my way in. We stopped a few times along the way, and she told me how much she did NOT want to ski with her husband on the blue runs - she was perfectly happy where she was, and she wanted to have fun, not be terrified. I felt so bad for her - instead of rejoice that she was out on the slopes at all, her DH was making her miserable.

I hope the "friends"/DH of the people I met are rare exceptions, and most people who introduce new folks to the sport they love give them a chance to get comfortable before leading them all over the mountain - or abandoning them without any direction. I think of all the years I spent skiing backwards until my kids (and my DH, for that matter) were comfortable on their own. I sacrificed some of my own skiing, but I eventually ended up creating my very best ski buddies.

 

[ski diva]

I know, stuff like this absolutely fries me. There's no better way to turn someone off to skiing/boarding than to scare the living daylights out of them by taking them on stuff they're in no way ready for. I've been in a similar situation myself -- escorting down someone who had no business being on a particular run. Both of those people are lucky they ran into you, Ann KH (well, not literally, though they could have). You treated them better than their "friends" did.

 

[SkiBilly]

I read somewhere that most ski accidents for beginners result from them trying to keep up with more experienced friends...(it might have been on Epic Ski...so I don't know if it's statistically true, haha).

I have skied with people (friends of friends) and been abandoned. I was very happy to be away from them actually. It was at Whistler and I kinda knew my way down and had a map in my pocket.

On the other hand, my DH is the best person for me to ski with. I am blessed. He is so patient and waits for me. I feel safe with him and not judged (unlike with some other ski friends, who btw, are not our friends anymore). He goes out early without me (he is mad about first tracks, while I like to sleep in) and then mid - late morning we go out together.

@AnnKH...it's the "cool dude" or a "ski snob" attitude that really sticks in my craw too.

 

[marzNC]

Unfortunately this happens everywhere. I've seen it every weekend at my little hill. One example was a young man who was obviously an advanced skier and wearing a large backpack. That was silly to start with when it takes an intermediate about 5 min to get to the lodge because the trails are so short. He had brought a young woman onto the hardest blue run, which is pretty steep at the very top for 30 feet. Presumably a GF. She couldn't make a turn without falling. Not there, and not on the rest of the harder section of that trail. Later I saw him trying to teach her very advanced skills . . . side slips, and even a kick turn! The way she would try to turn, she wasn't even doing parallel turns with any consistency. Once was not enough. I saw them up there again later on.

One of the new hosts at the lodge is a young man who hopefully learned his lesson. He's a college student. As an employee, he can ski for free and take lessons for free too. He's very athletic but a southerner. His first day on skis he and a friend did the first hour of the never-ever lesson package. After that they figured it was enough so they skipped the 2nd hour, which includes riding a lift and a couple runs on the long bunny trail. Bottom line is that his friend talked him into going up the "expert" lift. While the run he took would be a blue at a big mountain, it's still way more than anyone should try on their first day. He fell hard after going straight down way too fast since he doesn't know how to turn except with a wedge. Luckily just got a fat lip. We'll see if he's smart enough to take more lessons and work his way up to the easy blues and the harder blue before he goes up top again.

 

[Lilywhite]

I squirm every time I hear people say they can ice skate or skateboard therefore skiing or boarding will be easy.

As one of the organisers of a yearly ever changing group ski outing we have made it a condition that if newbies with no experience want to join our group they must book lessons up front or they can't come. It's just not fair on anyone any other way.

 

[Serafina]

Our WROD is extremely visible from the base, runs right under a non-usually-crowded lift, and draws noobs like honey draws flies - even though that lift clearly states that it does NOT serve any novice terrain. I've had to stop and teach at least three people to make pizza turns in the last four months of skiing, just so that they'd have a prayer of getting down the run without injuring themselves or other people. It's only a moderately challenging blue, but it is definitely a blue, and pizza-turners have no business being on it at all...let alone snowplowers. Sometimes they're out there because a boyfriend/husband has told them they should, sometimes they're out there because the part of the run you can see from the base is easy, and they think that's all there is to it.

 

[Tvan]

We once made the decision to go night skiing at our local hill. I should have been clued in when we arrived and the parking lot was full of school buses, but we geared up and got out on the hill.

Big mistake. The entire hill was crawling with never-ever teenagers on every run: green, blue and black. Supervision wasn't just inadequate, it was nonexistent. It was wall to wall yard sales. I can't understand why school-sponsored ski clubs would allow this, especially given insurance and liability concerns, let alone why parents would allow their kids to go on these trips.

We made one run and called it quits. I never felt so unsafe in my life.

 

[contesstant]

I've BEEN that person who was taken on something way over her head, more than once. I finally learned I was better off skiing alone on stuff that was fun for me. I still do that regularly

 

[abc]

I don't share the same emotion like most of you. I don't feel it's my duty to help them out!

If their friend/partner take them there and abandon them, yes, it'll turn that person against skiing. I just don't feel it's my duty to "grow the sport". Heck, I don't even encourage my family to take up skiing.

That said, if they want to learn to ski and ask my opinion on how to proceed, I'll steer them to proper lessons. I just talked two relatively inexperienced skiers into taking the instructor training clinic. They both felt they had gotten a lot of training as a result. They're both now committed to their very first skiing-filled winter.

I'm a firm believer of "God help those who help themselves". That "help themselves" includes trusting the person with the RIGHT experience, not just anyone who happens to have a car or a condo at the hill!

As for woman being pushed by their husbands, I feel differently. He (whoever "he" is) just plain forgot how difficult learning to ski is! Not ideal, but most are not intentional. It's up to her to speak up about not enjoying being scared.

 

[Dianna]

I see it all the time. People yelling "it's easy, just do this" and it's there first time and they took them way up and no way down easier than blue. A young girl died of head trauma 2 years ago at Mt High early in the season because her friends took her up top her first day and she couldn't stop or turn til she crashed. I think she was wearing a helmet but died at the hospital.

 

[gardenmary]

With the passing of years, I can appreciate how caring my late husband was to refuse absolutely to teach either me or our son. He had skied for so long he could tell what he could take me down, given what my coach and I worked on in a lesson. He knew what was safe, but he also knew when to push. Honestly, I think he and my coach had some kind of secret communication - I swear they were working in tandem.

My coach and I have helped more than one person down the hill when their jerk friends abandoned them on a difficult run. We've always told them to find new friends.

 

[mustski]

I don't share the same emotion like most of you. I don't feel it's my duty to help them out!

If their friend/partner take them there and abandon them, yes, it'll turn that person against skiing. I just don't feel it's my duty to "grow the sport".

It's not about growing the sport! It's about helping somebody survive a dangerous situation. I have encountered a few over the years; I have always been more than happy to stop and teach them what they need to know to survive the circumstances and safely navigate the run. BTW - taking someone to the top and leaving them is definitely a "guy" thing. I have never encountered someone who was abandoned by a woman.

 

[abc]

I feel that's ski patrol's job.

 

[ski diva]

I feel that's ski patrol's job.

In a perfect world, yes. But ski patrol isn't always around when someone like this is having trouble. And since there's no physical injury involved, I see nothing wrong with stepping in to help someone in this situation.

 

[2ski2moro]

A beginner who followed her friends to a (blue) run, ran into my husband from behind, tearing the meniscus in BOTH of his knees.

If you see something, say something!

 

[Jilly]

This past weekend I was teaching on the beginner run at our local bump. There was a group of 4 in brand new equipment. The man had obviously skied before. He was trying to teach the rest. There was also another group that had rented equipment and were trying to figure it out themselves. You have no idea how many times I had to look away, ski away during that hour!! They could see we have a professional snow school. We had 4 instructors teaching that moment. I know that some people just don't have the money for lessons, but some people are just too cheap! At least these people were on our bunny slope and not trying to go down one of the other runs.

As for friends - I have problems with this depending on everyone's attitude. If the person left behind was "lied too", then I'm ready to help.

As for ski patrol - as least any that I've seen here in eastern Canada, will tell you they are not the hill police. They are there to help injured people.

 

[altagirl]

This past weekend I was teaching on the beginner run at our local bump. There was a group of 4 in brand new equipment. The man had obviously skied before. He was trying to teach the rest. There was also another group that had rented equipment and were trying to figure it out themselves. You have no idea how many times I had to look away, ski away during that hour!! They could see we have a professional snow school. We had 4 instructors teaching that moment. I know that some people just don't have the money for lessons, but some people are just too cheap! At least these people were on our bunny slope and not trying to go down one of the other runs.

As for friends - I have problems with this depending on everyone's attitude. If the person left behind was "lied too", then I'm ready to help.

As for ski patrol - as least any that I've seen here in eastern Canada, will tell you they are not the hill police. They are there to help injured people.

Agreed. It depends on the beginner. The person who was dragged to the top by a friend or spouse and is clearly lost or terrified and alone? Yes, I'd go help. That said, there are also people who do that to themselves.

Some of us have the common sense to say "I'm a beginner, I'm going to stay on the beginner slopes and maybe even TAKE A LESSON!" Others are in the delusional "I'm athletic and I can ice skate so this will be easy, I'm going right to the top!" Still others are more afraid of being "alone" in a lesson or on a green slope than following their friends wherever they are going and wind up where they don't belong. It's not necessarily the friends fault for not evaluating their skiing or forcing them to stay where they belong. I remember going on a trip years ago in Europe with some people I worked with in Germany. They claimed to be experts "we live in Colorado!" so I took them at their word. Not so much - they were barely out of a snowplow. I don't feel like it's my job to tell adults who have been skiing before where they should ski. I don't have the legal right to remove them from a slope anyway. If someone is THAT dangerous, I'd need to find ski patrol to really accomplish anything anyway - it's not like you can go around forcing people onto slopes you think are more appropriate for them. And half the time, the people who are really reckless don't think they are reckless - they're just having fun and aren't going to listen to you anyway.

If someone is truly lost or appears to WANT help - I'll go help, call ski patrol for them, whatever. People who are struggling their way through because they won't take a lesson, choose to ski inappropriate terrain, etc? No. Not my problem.

 

[altagirl]

A beginner who followed her friends to a (blue) run, ran into my husband from behind, tearing the meniscus in BOTH of his knees.

If you see something, say something!

But what are you going to say that will accomplish anything? "Hey, you shouldn't be on this slope!" Most people don't want to hear about how you think they are dangerous and unskilled (even if you're trying to be tactful about it and it's obviously the truth).... I think most likely you're just going to get an earful about minding your own business. No?

 

[geargrrl]

To add to altagirl's comments, most people don't want to hear that their friends are jerks, that they don't know what they are doing, or that bad decisions are being made. Our patrol will occasionally give courtesy rides down in the toboggan, and I've seen a patroller patiently trying to get someone down an inappropriate slope in snowplow turns. That is probably a patrol policy. It doesn't happen a lot, but it has been done on our hill.

Minding my own business has saved me a lot of mental and emotional energy over the years. Not that it doesn't frost me as SD put it, but unless I want to start telling other how to run their lives, or its a truly life threatening situation, I'm staying out of it.

 

[AnnKH]

In the situations I described, both people wanted help. I certainly don't go around telling people where they should or should not ski - though in both situations I directed the people to green runs. I don't know what happened to the young man, but the woman was grateful for my help. After I approached her, we saw only one other skier (not ski patrol).

I don't mind helping folks gather up gear after a yard sale, or ask if someone needs help. It might not be my "job", but if I can give someone a hand I will. If I was the one struggling to get up, or crawling up the hill to recover a ski or pole, I'd hate to watch 50 people ski past me (and my gear) because they thought it was the ski patrol's job. It's no hardship for me to slow down and ask "Do you need a hand?" If the answer is no, I move on.