should an instructor instruct a friend?

[liquidfeet]

I have to make a decision this winter. I'm an instructor in New England (one year of experience teaching skiing, many years teaching other stuff) and have a friend from down south coming up to visit me this winter to go skiing. She wants me to help her improve her skills. My first thought is no way, it is sure to go sour. She should take a lesson with someone else, then ski with me. But maybe I'm wrong. She's insistent, and assures me that of course we'll be able to do this easily. She may be right. Our friendship goes back a long time.

She skis one to two weeks a year, usually out west. She's an intermediate skier who skis the intermediate slopes, staying away from bumps, steeps, and anything ungroomed. She does not like to ski if it is snowing. Two years ago she bought her first pair of skis, and they are fatties (105 at the waist). She loves her new skis. I know she is not aware of the special nature of fat skis, and how a ski with a narrower waist and more sidecut would make a big difference in her potential to learn to carve on our usually hard snow. I'm sure there will be lots of other stuff we might work on instead. Should I decide to do this thing, I'll take my clue from her and help her with what she wants to learn.

I skied with her once about 6 years ago, and we had did great together. We avoided the bumps and the blacks. Back then I was skiing every week and working hard on improving my skills, but the differences in our skiing were not yet obvious, so we both were trying to figure out together how to do things. Today I am a much better skier than I was then, and I think I am fairly good at analyzing what people need to do to build new skills.

When she visits, I'd be happy to ski easy with her for the entire time, just enjoying the day, doing no real instructing. Maybe I could suggest some pointers, but no real teaching. But she insists that I should go ahead and really teach her.

What advice do people have? Am I nuts to worry?

 

[Jilly]

First off, she's asking, insisting, so try it. But keep it relaxed with little tips, not a full blown out 1 hour private.

I have friends that insist I ski in front of them because they think I'm assessing their skiing. I'll help with tips if they ask, but otherwise I'm there to ski with them. Just like I did with Lola and Lovebug in Colorado. We did some small bumps and some freshies (5"). I'll just guided them along with stuff they already knew how to do.

Have a great time with your friend.

 

[SkiBam]

Almost all the friends I ski with want tips, and I'm happy to oblige if I can (but only if they ask). I find that helping friends is a great way for me to practise my instructing (eg. new exercises or whatever) before using this stuff on paying customers.

I'd say, definitely, go for it.

 

[Swamp Dog]

Sue, I'd say go for it if it's what she wants to do. You have a great eye for seeing what a skier is doing and knowing what needs to be done for improvement. I had so much fun skiing with you last year and thoroughly enjoyed your technical love of the sport.

Just make sure she knows the door is always open and you won't be hurt if she decides she should be learning with someone else. I think you can do it without it harming the relationship though. You're just not that abrasive!

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Real common issue in our family, with 2 instructors (of a total of 3 of us!). I think you're able to switch in and out of instructor mode at this point and can read the cues as to level of intensity desired. Sometimes it's just going through some drills/skills and asking for feedback, waiting for the cues of "how do I _____" "Why is ____ not working for me?" With me (DH has been my instructor for, um, 36 years), he'll just make the "shift:" "Okay, let's try _____ here and see how it feels." Then a demo, then I follow, then give feedback.

 

[Skier31]

I have a good friend who in an instructor. When we go out to ski, he always asks, "what would you like today, full blown lesson, the occasional tip or for me to keep my mouth shut? It has become sort of a joke but we get it out of the way at the beginning. I feel very forutunate to have a great instructor give me his undivided attention for the day.

I am also an instructor and feel fortunate to be able to help others. I have a couple of friends who appreciate feedback and will speak up as to when they want it or when they don't.

It sounds like your friend wants the feedback. Use this as a chance to improve your teaching skills. In most situations like this, everybody learns.

 

[ski diva]

This brings up a good question: how do you instructors feel when you're skiing with friends, and they ask you for tips or feedback on their skiing? Do you feel like you're being taken advantage of, or are you happy to oblige?

 

[KatyPerrey]

This brings up a good question: how do you instructors feel when you're skiing with friends, and they ask you for tips or feedback on their skiing? Do you feel like you're being taken advantage of, or are you happy to oblige?

Interesting subject! I have been teaching full time for 20 years (level 3 for 16 of those 20) and I learned a long time ago to say nothing unless asked! Even when asked I might not say anything! I have skied with many from the forum and they can attest to this. When you ski with me in a lesson you get 100% of me as a instructor. When you ski with me as a friend you can get just about anything! (good or bad)

 

[pinto]

Interesting subject! I have been teaching full time for 20 years (level 3 for 16 of those 20) and I learned a long time ago to say nothing unless asked! Even when asked I might not say anything! I have skied with many from the forum and they can attest to this. When you ski with me in a lesson you get 100% of me as a instructor. When you ski with me as a friend you can get just about anything! (good or bad)

Do you find it somewhat useless to give a tip or two (in a friend environment), or is it usually effective?

Maybe I should back up: what I mean is, you most likely wouldn't want to spend all day drilling someone if you aren't getting paid, so it seems like you would make an observation or two (if asked) and/or a suggestion or two (if asked), and that's about it. Is that enough to help?

I guess where I'm coming from, the couple of times I've had a clinic or done drills for 45 min, I'm not sure it was effective at all (probably screwed me up further) because I'm an almost completely unschooled skier. I don't speak the language. Putting words to what I'm doing messes me up at this point.

Now, I know that if I decided to do an ESA or some other concerted effort of a series of lessons with the same instructor, it would help a lot. But I'm definitely at the place where I have skied long enough and have so much muscle memory that I would need to tear it all down and start over for professional instruction to be effective for me. Does that make sense, or do I have some faulty ideas?

I keep thinking I need to go figure out what I'm doing, but I never do it. Definitely one of those "what I can do already gets me where I want to go" types, but maybe there's more awaiting me....

 

[BackCountryGirl]

I don't have this problem too often -- most of my friends are either great skiers who need no help from me or fellow instructors. The only time I do "instruct" when I'm skiing with friends is when I'm skiing with friends and their kids. Parents who aren't kids instructors tend to deliver tips poorly and parents who are instructors tend to blow it with their own kids. I'll usually ask the friend ("Mind if I pipe in?") and try to turn a dry drill into a fun experience.

 

[KatyPerrey]

Do you find it somewhat useless to give a tip or two (in a friend environment), or is it usually effective?

Maybe I should back up: what I mean is, you most likely wouldn't want to spend all day drilling someone if you aren't getting paid, so it seems like you would make an observation or two (if asked) and/or a suggestion or two (if asked), and that's about it. Is that enough to help?

I guess where I'm coming from, the couple of times I've had a clinic or done drills for 45 min, I'm not sure it was effective at all (probably screwed me up further) because I'm an almost completely unschooled skier. I don't speak the language. Putting words to what I'm doing messes me up at this point.

Now, I know that if I decided to do an ESA or some other concerted effort of a series of lessons with the same instructor, it would help a lot. But I'm definitely at the place where I have skied long enough and have so much muscle memory that I would need to tear it all down and start over for professional instruction to be effective for me. Does that make sense, or do I have some faulty ideas?

I keep thinking I need to go figure out what I'm doing, but I never do it. Definitely one of those "what I can do already gets me where I want to go" types, but maybe there's more awaiting me....

"But I'm definitely at the place where I have skied long enough and have so much muscle memory that I would need to tear it all down and start over for professional instruction to be effective for me."


Really good instructors will not "tear you down and rebuild" IMO!!! If they are doing this they are looking at keeping you as a student and making money. This is BS in my mind! I work with what is bought to me. I have skied with you and there are loads of good things happening in your skiing!!! Keep in mind I also don't waste my free day of skiing looking for faults in my friends skiing!! If asked I will start paying a bit more attention to your skiing and figure out what is happening. Both good and bad!!

"you most likely wouldn't want to spend all day drilling someone if you aren't getting paid"


:ROTF: Only if it is a powder day!!! I most likely won't go skiing with friends if they can't ski the powder! But if by some chance I am with friends and they are having a hard time skiing the terrian/conditions I might speak up, give them a tip or two to keep them safe! (asked by them or not) Nothing like having someone hurt themselves in condtions they can't handle.

 

[SnowHot]

Interesting subject! I have been teaching full time for 20 years (level 3 for 16 of those 20) and I learned a long time ago to say nothing unless asked! Even when asked I might not say anything! I have skied with many from the forum and they can attest to this. When you ski with me in a lesson you get 100% of me as a instructor. When you ski with me as a friend you can get just about anything! (good or bad)

I can attest to this.

But all of this brings up another topic, as Katy can attest to...
When mere mortals (example=me) ski with instructors (example = Katy and/or tcarey) do you/we tend to bring the A game or freeze up?

Seriously, I've skied with some great coaches, Katy and Tcarey are just two (naming all of them would be too difficult). I've had some great moments with great mojo while skiing with these folks, but I've also had some weird funk moments set in. I don't think the presence of these people have caused the weird funk, but I think there can be an element of pressure where you hear that little voice in the back of your head "oh great, now you look like a total schmuck in front of "name coach"."

Lesson one: Don't let it get to you. Chances are the coach just wants to ski and could care less if you're having a weird funk.
Lesson two: If you let it go, chances are you'll have a great day of skiing with "amazing coach"

Now, .....get......out........of.......my......head......

 

[lovebug]

First off, she's asking, insisting, so try it. But keep it relaxed with little tips, not a full blown out 1 hour private.

I have friends that insist I ski in front of them because they think I'm assessing their skiing. I'll help with tips if they ask, but otherwise I'm there to ski with them. Just like I did with Lola and Lovebug in Colorado. We did some small bumps and some freshies (5"). I'll just guided them along with stuff they already knew how to do.

Have a great time with your friend.

Yeah - the help was awesome!! Its fun to ski with someone who can help you out with the hardparts, helps you challenges some new terrain, and then sits back and chill when you ski (not that well) while working on your smiles It was definatly a great experience, lots of help, but i left feeling most improved and smiling, not nitpicked to death!

 

[Jilly]

And you did improve. But alll I did was emphazied what you already knew. And then challenged you to do something a little harder.

I can say the same thing about KatyPerry. You don't call me girly-girl and expect me to stay behind! Now I wish I had gone back up Pali again. I still don't think the legs and lungs would have held out. But it was the challenge.

 

[tcarey]

I can attest to this.

But all of this brings up another topic, as Katy can attest to...
When mere mortals (example=me) ski with instructors (example = Katy and/or tcarey) do you/we tend to bring the A game or freeze up?

Seriously, I've skied with some great coaches, Katy and Tcarey are just two (naming all of them would be too difficult). I've had some great moments with great mojo while skiing with these folks, but I've also had some weird funk moments set in. I don't think the presence of these people have caused the weird funk, but I think there can be an element of pressure where you hear that little voice in the back of your head "oh great, now you look like a total schmuck in front of "name coach"."

Lesson one: Don't let it get to you. Chances are the coach just wants to ski and could care less if you're having a weird funk.
Lesson two: If you let it go, chances are you'll have a great day of skiing with "amazing coach"

Now, .....get......out........of.......my......head......

Well said Snowhot and thanks for the kudos!I can say as an insructor when I go out with examiners I feel the same way! I call it performance anxiety! Last year at Sugarloaf Crystel and I were invited out by Peter Howard who pretty much writes the exams here in the East.I was pretty nervous to say the least until I realized we really were all out to ski the amazing conditions.He did give feedback which for me is always welcome! Once I relaxed I skied far better! So we have the same feelings you do!

T

 

[jessie.says.that]

I'll have to agree with the gals who say not to offer verbal tips.

I remember when I was first learning (from an adult age) and I skied with a girlfriend who inadvertently instilled my current love of skiing. She was PSIA level 3, an ex-racer, and nationally ranked at one point. But all she ever did was laugh and enjoy herself and encourage (despite me asking for tips...she'd always say, "you're doing great," or "that was fun!" that sort of thing). In some ways, I think this is the best way to keep your friendship sane and encourage someone to improve their technique. She essentially taught me by example and taught me that skiing is a TON OF FUN.

I am instructor now too, and am finally comfortable accessing the terrain that allows said gf and I to both get our adreneline pumping...But still I always think of that first season and I try to always remember how important a positive, fun attitude is to the learning process. I firmly believe that I learned to ski by laughing, goofing off, and singing with a good friend on the lift, and by skiing behind her and watching how she did things...not by anything she ever said.

 

[KatyPerrey]

I can attest to this.

But all of this brings up another topic, as Katy can attest to...
When mere mortals (example=me) ski with instructors (example = Katy and/or tcarey) do you/we tend to bring the A game or freeze up?

Seriously, I've skied with some great coaches, Katy and Tcarey are just two (naming all of them would be too difficult). I've had some great moments with great mojo while skiing with these folks, but I've also had some weird funk moments set in. I don't think the presence of these people have caused the weird funk, but I think there can be an element of pressure where you hear that little voice in the back of your head "oh great, now you look like a total schmuck in front of "name coach"."

Lesson one: Don't let it get to you. Chances are the coach just wants to ski and could care less if you're having a weird funk.
Lesson two: If you let it go, chances are you'll have a great day of skiing with "amazing coach"

Now, .....get......out........of.......my......head......

We all get into that "weird funk" and we all get intimated skiing with "certain people"! I never think I ski well (but that is me being very hard on myself)and I tend to be a perfectionist in my skiing! I have told many of my friends and students to just have fun!! If we can't have fun then go home!! That is the best tip I can give anyone!!!:D

 

[SkiBam]

I firmly believe that I learned to ski by laughing, goofing off, and singing with a good friend on the lift, and by skiing behind her and watching how she did things...not by anything she ever said.

I'm convinced that following a good skier is one of the best ways to learn (and I've had many students and friends say the same thing). Few words need be spoken. So if your friend is following, she's probably learning - and having a great time in the process.

 

[liquidfeet]

I feel much better now. This is great advice. I'll give it a try, but not in my all-out-instructor-mode. I'll just play it by ear from there on, keeping it nice and easy, only responding to prompts from my friend. Thanks!