Wrong boots?

[liquidfeet]

I have buyer's remorse. I just bought new boots. After I got home I visited the mfgr's website and discovered more info about them, and fear I have bought boots that are too soft (forward flex wise) for skiing the way I ski on the terrain and snow I ski on. So I have the details below, and two questions for you divas.

I race in a night league. I'm zooming through the gates every night for 10-11 weeks. I race in another league that has 5 more races. I am a new racer, but I'm better than most women my age anyway, and I'm getting faster.
I ski in New England. Most of my skiing is on groomed and re-groomed man-made hard snow. Think icy. Very hard snow.
When I'm freeskiing, I like to go fast. I've gotten good at that, especially since I bought some very stiff Atomics that the guys said I couldn't bend, but evidently I do. Again, we're talking hard snow here.
New Hampshire where I ski has not been getting good powder lately, and since I've been here there hasn't been any off-piste skiing available where I ski all the time.

My previous boots were very stiff. While out on the snow I couldn't get them to bend at all. People advised me to get boots with more forward flex to see if my performance on snow might get even better. So when the liners wore out I went boot shopping, thinking more forward flex.
I told the guy in the store all this, and he showed me boots that I could bend forward. I wanted high performance boots with some forward flex. My previous boots (Atomics) were the top of the women's non-pro line. That's what I wanted this time, only with more flex. He assured me that this was what I was buying. I got Lange Exclusive Free-Ride boots.
But at home I got on the Lange website. They label skiers "occasional" "good" "excellent" for this line of boots. The ones I bought are for "good" skiers, which in this system clearly means intermediate. I am not an intermediate skier and I don't want boots for intermediates. Also, these boots are for powder as well as hard snow, and I'm not going to be in powder. I really think I have the wrong boot. And I don't think it's my fault. I think the guy just didn't inform me enough about the boot before I committed. I'm worried I won't get the performance on hard snow that I am used to from my previous boots.

1. Am I right? Are these boots wrong for me?
2. If yes, then how do I return the boots? They have been altered slightly. I have boot heaters attached to my footbeds; the store guy punched a hole down at the heel in each liner to allow the heater wire to go through it.

 

[SnowHot]

LF, I am wondering if you are over-thinking this a bit.

I know you have pondered this a lot since you went to stowe last year and have asked a tremendous amount of questions. I'm assuming that you went to a quality boot fitter and told him what you wanted, how you skied, what type of skiing you do, and the conditions you usually ski.

If this is the case, then I'm sure he set you up with the right boot for you. Have faith.

IF(big if) you decided you NEED to return the boot, then talk to the guy you had do you fitting and find out what his policy is. You may be able to exchange, but I doubt it, if/since you've had them altered.

Make no mistake, I am not a boot expert!!!
I'd suggest you go to Epic and Ask the Boot guys. They are more likely to know.

 

[Gloria]

2. If yes, then how do I return the boots? They have been altered slightly. I have boot heaters attached to my footbeds; the store guy punched a hole down at the heel in each liner to allow the heater wire to go through it.

My hope is that any reputable shop would take the boots back and resell them at a discount. If not, contact customer service for the boot company itself and explain the situation etc. The idea behind pro-deals is that those receiving them are suppose to provide feedback which most don't, it is my understanding that companies appreciate this type of feedback both about their outlets and products. I would be surprised if you weren't able to remedy the situation through one of these methods.

 

[IntheClouds]

Reputable bootfitter ? If so, think about Lange's marketing, the lovely Lange girls etc. Now, there is a larger population of Intermediates & aspiring Intermediates out there. If you name a boot to be for Intermediates, you will have a larger buyer pool than for advanced or beginners. Advanced women go to good bootfitters that actually know the boots real characteristics & able to match those up to the real needs of their real skiers regardless of marketing of the boot co. After all, these guys have to work on the boots & ought to know them inside & out. Better than the marketing types & website people who work on the pschology of the buyer/skiier to make those sales.

So , is this boot a Lange Exclusive or a Freeride ? Go to Corty Lawrence's site - www.footloosesports.com , Look at what he has to say... From what I can tell , the Freeride is appropriate. 98mm shell on a WC last, snug close fit for power transmission.

 

[IntheClouds]

If you can't tell, I was totally disgusted by several manufacturers websites this year. Completely technically useless. All hype & verbal description , but no real tech info, just some tech sounding words, pretty pictures, snow, & no real beef. Gave my feedback whenever there was a feedback spot. Some of the others give great tech info. List the last width of each & every model, more descriptive of the real features etc etc.

 

[tcarey]

Hey Liquidfeet,
If I recall correctly when we skied together last year I think Crystel was asking you to stand up. I think I can remember you skiing in a very bent over position.This is a classic effect of a bit that is too stiff or an ankle that doesn't bend.If you can't bend in the ankle then something else must bend,which means we bend to much from our other joints particularly the hips and knees.This will really affect your skis performance.What is the flex of the boot 100 120? You are a woman with a smaller frame so this could have affected the fitter's choice of boots.Just because a boot is label high performance doesn't mean that we can perform high with them! Does this make sense?
T

 

[Jilly]

Well I'd have to agree with tcarey about too stiff boots. Been there done that. I can't see where you've gone wrong liquidfeet. Intheclouds - Oh I couldn't agree with you more on the websites. I've been looking for boots this year and want to go in armed. Rossi boots have always fitted me best. There is limited info on their site. I got more out of Skiing's boot test! And that's not saying much is it!

 

[Lori_K]

LF-- I understand your situation, and think there is some misleading information on the Lange website.

If you look at the Exclusive series (not FR) , it breaks down as follows:

Exclusive 100 = Expert
Exclusive 90 = Good
Exclusive 80 = Advanced
Exclusive 70 = Intermediate
Exclusive 60 = Intermediate
...etc.

Seems kind of odd that they put the "Good" description over the "Advanced" description.

But if the FreeRide 80 is closest to the Exclusive 80 (as they claim on the website), then I'd suspect you have an advanced level boot, just a bit softer than what you had before.

Are you happy with the overall boot fit? That's what counts the most. I'd rather ski in a lower level boot with perfect fit than in a high end boot that was a bit sloppy. :p

 

[SnowHot]

To reiterate what Tcarey said, .............remember this thread on Epic?
Read post #3
https://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=42315

This one about your boot canting is another one that emphasizes Tcareys point.
https://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=54573

The boot you have may be okay. Take it back to the guy you got it from and make sure it is the right boot for you. (assuming that he is a good bootfitter)

 

[liquidfeet]

So , is this boot a Lange Exclusive or a Freeride ? Go to Corty Lawrence's site - www.footloosesports.com , Look at what he has to say... From what I can tell , the Freeride is appropriate. 98mm shell on a WC last, snug close fit for power transmission.

This is an Exclusiv FR, which means it's the Exclusiv version of the FreeRide.
I went to footloosesports and could not find anything specific about this boot. Where did you get the specifics? I don't belong to RealSkiers, so can't get access to specific boot reviews there. But if there is another source, or if footloosesports has it and I'm just missing it, I'd like to go there.
Thanks.

 

[liquidfeet]

LF, I am wondering if you are over-thinking this a bit.

I overthink everything. That's just me. (For instance, the skiing banana....) However, my overthinking does me pretty good service often. And now lots of people are thinking it through with me. That's good! I can't wait to work my way through all the replies, and somewhere either get final reassurance or advice for further action. I hope and trust that the divas will help make this happen.

 

[liquidfeet]

Hey Liquidfeet,
If I recall correctly when we skied together last year I think Crystel was asking you to stand up. I think I can remember you skiing in a very bent over position.This is a classic effect of a bit that is too stiff or an ankle that doesn't bend.If you can't bend in the ankle then something else must bend,which means we bend to much from our other joints particularly the hips and knees.This will really affect your skis performance.What is the flex of the boot 100 120? You are a woman with a smaller frame so this could have affected the fitter's choice of boots.Just because a boot is label high performance doesn't mean that we can perform high with them! Does this make sense?
T

Yes, Crystel was one of the voices that sent me to the store looking for more flex. The old boot was 80 flex, but for whatever reason I couldn't flex it. The new boot is 80 flex, but in the store I can.

 

[liquidfeet]

LF-- I understand your situation, and think there is some misleading information on the Lange website.

If you look at the Exclusive series (not FR) , it breaks down as follows:

Exclusive 100 = Expert
Exclusive 90 = Good
Exclusive 80 = Advanced
Exclusive 70 = Intermediate
Exclusive 60 = Intermediate
...etc.

Seems kind of odd that they put the "Good" description over the "Advanced" description.

But if the FreeRide 80 is closest to the Exclusive 80 (as they claim on the website), then I'd suspect you have an advanced level boot, just a bit softer than what you had before.

Are you happy with the overall boot fit? That's what counts the most. I'd rather ski in a lower level boot with perfect fit than in a high end boot that was a bit sloppy. :p

Just visited the Lange website again. For the Exclusive (women's) FreeRide boots, there are three categories: "expert" skiers (110), "excellent" skiers (100), and "good" skiers (80). I bought number three.
I am happy with the fit. But I am worried that my old boot did not function as an 80 flex boot at all, but more like 120 or something like that. And that the jump to so much softness at 80 flex for me skiing on hard snow with stiff skis, instead of smoothing around in soft snow like this boot is made for, will decrease my performance. The skis may not respond as I'm used to, and I might just lose response time, which matters to me. I don't know how a boot is different when Lange makes it for powder as opposed to hard snow.
I do know this boot's graphics are made to match some dynastar skis. I learned that as I left the store. It really stung me. I would never buy boots to match my skis. Who does that? Women not like me. I am so worried. Help me out here.

 

[tcarey]

Companies have their own spec's for flex-An Atomic 80 may be way different than a Lange-Don't sweat that!

If you are completly unhappy with the boots performance that all you need to do is gripe-they will work with you!

Remmeber if you cant flex the boot you will have trouble getting that ski to perform.

On another note-I am totally opposite from you-I am overflexed in the boot.Does it affect my performance? absolutley! It's something I am working on.

Try them out and see how it goes!

T

 

[ski diva]

Companies have their own spec's for flex-An Atomic 80 may be way different than a Lange-Don't sweat that!

Tcarey is right -- you can't get hung up on the numbers. Most companies have their own flex scales; sometimes they're comparable, but more often they're not. The only way to see if a boot is right for you is to try it on. To make it even more confusing, what feels too soft in a warm ski shop might be perfect in cold weather.

 

[abc]

This may sound harsh. But I believe you should have done the research BEFORE the purchase, not AFTER.

You either trust the boot fitter, ot NOT. You can't do BOTH.

If you trust the boot fitter. Then forget about the website and marketing BS. Ski it to see if it work for you. The fact being you HAD a stiff boot and it did NOT work well for you.

If you didn't trust the boot fitter, you shouldn't have bought on his advice. Not trying to send it back AFTER it's been altered, and without even skiing on it ONCE!

I can just see the face of the boot fitter when you walk in with the new boot and wanted a refund...

 

[liquidfeet]

This may sound harsh. But I believe you should have done the research BEFORE the purchase, not AFTER.
You either trust the boot fitter, ot NOT. You can't do BOTH.
If you trust the boot fitter. Then forget about the website and marketing BS. Ski it to see if it work for you. The fact being you HAD a stiff boot and it did NOT work well for you.
If you didn't trust the boot fitter, you shouldn't have bought on his advice. Not trying to send it back AFTER it's been altered, and without even skiing on it ONCE!
I can just see the face of the boot fitter when you walk in with the new boot and wanted a refund...

 

[Elangirl]

I have to admit that I agree with abc on this one. I skied the Lange Free ride in a 100 flex for two years and I absolutely loved the boot. I am a ski instructor and an expert skier--but did not worry about what my boot was called on a website. The boot really helped me refine my skiing and I thought it was awesome.

The Free Ride 80 is softer than my boot---but didn't I hear someone say that you are very small? If so, there are three reasons why that boot is good for you. One, it has a lower cuff and does not come up high on the leg---for smaller women. Two, that flex is going to be just fine for you---remember that larger women need more stiffness since their leg is a longer lever. And Three---Lange boots are worn by more ski racers in the world than any other brand. The boot is made for a smaller woman with a narrower foot.

Personally, I think you should stop obsessing about the boot---it is a boot that I would have recommended to you and start visualizing yourself getting into a balanced position by flexing your ankles and knees. Stand up in an athletic position with the boots and see yourself stacking up more. You will have to get used to a boot that flexes for you.

So, relax. You went to a bootfitter who thought this boot would work for you. I also, agree that this boot will be awesome for you this winter. Ps, my new boots Kryzma are chocolate brown and black and match my new skis, Mag Spice which are brown and tan with an accent of turquoise. I love it that Kryzma is written in turquose on boot---thus matchine us up quite nicely. I just got a brown jacket too!!! But, don't worry, I ski quite well too.


We are women, we have choices---we can match our skis and boots---manufacturers make skis and boots in the same color family each year. I get new skis and boots every year--so, they usually match since I am the Elan Rep and always ski Elan skis and Dalbello boots----but, this stuff does not matter---we don't have to prove anything or dress like men to be taken seriously!!!

The Dynastar Exclusive Carve is an absolutely amazing carving ski---so, if you got them and they matched your boots you would be the star of the team!!! I hope you have fun in your boots, I think they are the right boot---the rest is up to you!!!

 

[IntheClouds]

This is an Exclusiv FR, which means it's the Exclusiv version of the FreeRide.
I went to footloosesports and could not find anything specific about this boot. Where did you get the specifics? I don't belong to RealSkiers, so can't get access to specific boot reviews there. But if there is another source, or if footloosesports has it and I'm just missing it, I'd like to go there.
Thanks.

https://footloosesports.com/reviews/article.php?prid=375

If you aren't aware , Corty Lawrence is nationaly respected as a bootfitter & was one of the innovators of Superfeet & the kork footbed for ski boots. If it weren't an overnighter to go there for the boots & any needed adjustments, I'd have gone to him. You may also enjoy some of his articles. I'm also going to look up a link I saw earlier today on epic. Back in a few

 

[IntheClouds]

https://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles/RMalm-2001-01-Speed101.pdf

Saw this on epic today. Boot ref is on page 6. Short & sweet.

In my opinion, there is no way I would wear ski boots that I could not flex well. My new ones are pushing it. But then I have yet to get them on snow to really know. And 1 of the biggest things I told my bootfitter was I refuse to get in a boot with too much forward lean built in. I like my knees & joints & do not want to be forced to stress them by some boot (designed & manufactured by men). If I want the boot forward, by golly I'll put it there on my own power. As it is, it has 2 forward lean adjustments. & if I want, I can get a 3rd by removing the adjusters altogether. Love having flexibility & choices.

You couldn't flex your old boots. You had no options of changing your position from foot to knee thereby forcing you to make any changes through your body position above the knee. YUUKKKKK!!.

If those boots prove to fit well & ski well, but you find that you absolutely must have them stiffer, then have them made stiffer. It can be done. & if you have the same boot fitter do it, he may do it for cost of materials only. But my intuition tells me you will really like them. Wear them around the house a few days & get to know them. If you end up not liking the zeppa because it might be softer (unless the bootfitter changed it for you already ) you can change it to a firmer one also. I would ski in them before making any changes. Good luck. p.s. Atomic flex rating does not match up with Lange flex rating according to the boot fitters, no consistency whatsoever. You need to flex girlfriend.