Winter clothes - layering in 2022?

[bluebluerose]

Hey again patient ladies. Cold weather gear has changed a lot since I was a teen in the 90s when I just wore cotton long johns under my jeans. I'm worried I'm doing this wrong. How do other people layer their clothes for the outdoors? Also, what on earth are softshells good for?

Currently I'm wearing the following:

Bottom layers -
Polyester underwear and sports bra (because cotton next to skin makes you clammy, correct?)
(Also is merino underwear really all that? If it is, great, just... not sure if it's necessary or gimmicky)
A synthetic fleecy-inside baselayer that I'm not sure is tight enough (How snug should it be? like a fitted t shirt, or second-skin, fetish latex body suit tight???)

Mid layers:
On top: a thicker wool sweater
On bottom: (please don't judge) sweatpants

Top layer:
Bibs cause waistbands drive me nuts
Coat: A softshell jacket zipped into a waterproof parka
Head: neck gaiter and a rental helmet.

I feel like a sweaty mess by the time I get through the rental line. I think I hate my softshell! Is it *really* necessary?

I have more than a sneaking suspicion that other people don't wear sweatpants inside their snowpants, but then... In my head I imagine stopping at the gas station on the way there and strutting into the bathroom in my skinny base layer pants and very GENEROUS middle aged booty and think 'nah just wear the sweats!'

What do other people wear on the mountain? Would love some other ideas!

 

[Jilly]

Depends on where you are skiing.....I ski in Quebec, which like most of the US Northeast is just plain COLD. And the other thing is how do you react to temperature.

So for me:
Base layers, synthetic both top and bottom. Bottoms are Columbia with the silver lining and top is HH-Lifa. I just wear my standard panties for the day.
Mid layer - top only, 1/4 zip turtleneck. Oh, yeah, Sport bra.
Insulating layer - either down sweater(EB) or fleece under jacket
Outer - insulated ski pants and full insulated jacket. Avalanche or Mountain Wearhouse are my go to/s.
Helmet with or without liner
Gloves - (can't stand mitts) either Swany or Karbon heated.
Neck - old tube made by Buff and like anything else I like, discontinued. It even had wind stopper. This Buff was made for runners.

As for the Merino - I cannot wear a top layer. Start scratching the minute it touches my skin. Bottoms I can wear though. Haven't found them to be any better than the Columbia's. Sweat pants, I think you have your answer. Get some bottom base layer instead. Fit should be tight as these are moving sweat away from your body. Sales should be on now. Or some of the ladies find good deals in the fall at outlet store.

If you're using a rental helmet, please get a helmet liner.....cooties!! Or get your own helmet would be better.

 

[bluebluerose]

"If you're using a rental helmet, please get a helmet liner.....cooties!!"

So true! I forgot to mention the liner.

 

[scandium]

Do your base layers breathe? Fleecy things feel nice, but if you're sweaty by the time you get to the lift then that suggests you are either wearing too many layers for your specific situation (especially since a bib effectively gives you an extra layer on top!), or whatever is directly on your skin is not breathable enough. I am the worst person to ask about how tight base layers should be, as I love compression wear, but the sweat pants are not a great idea especially if you're getting sweaty in them. Find a proper base layer legging, you can even use leggings designed as an outer layer for winter running if you want something that is a bit more "designed to be worn as pants" as they usually breathe as well.

With respect to softshell, usually softshell fabrics are wind/water resistant and work well as spring/warm weather jackets with the stretch and comfort being better than most "hard" shell fabrics that tend to be more crinkly, non stretch, but more technical (breathable, waterproof etc). If you hate the softshell you don't have to wear it as long as you are warm enough without it.

I routinely ski in 4-5 layers on my top half in most resorts because I run cold, freeze on the chairlift, and don't get that warm on the way down especially when it's windy. If it's rope tow or t-bars, like many of the smaller fields, I wear less. I'm currently trying to find a mid layer that works by itself rather than needing two, so am looking at acquiring a synthetic fleece and rationalizing some of my merino collection.

On a "cold" day (anything at or below 25F+/- wind), my layering is currently as follows:
Underwear: Uniqlo body shaper shorts (synthetic) or Mons Royale merino. Merino keeps my butt warmer.
Bra: Sports bra - usually synthetic

Base layer:
Top normally Skins
Bottoms CW-X tights (these were life-changing and have allowed me to ski more days in a row despite declining fitness in the last 2 years)

Second base layer/first mid layer:
Light-midweight merino top (180-250gsm)

Second mid layer:
Merino hoodie or half-zip (280-300gsm)

Insulator:
Top: Insulator merino jacket which has a mix of wool and synthetic insulation
Bottom: Insulated 3/4 leggings

Outer layer:
My ski jacket has 40gsm synthetic insulation with a high breathability/waterproofing rating.
I also have the option of both shell or uninsulated pants.

I don't usually wear a balaclava under my helmet as I have the hood(s) from my layers. I wear an airhole mask and only pull it down to eat and drink.

 

[bluebluerose]

It's clear the sweat pants must be ditched. Leggings should fit the bill instead, with so many activewear choices now.

It's also odd feeling my mindset shift. When I was a kid I we skied in jeans - if we fell, we brushed the snow off ourselves fast because we didn't want it to melt, get our legs wet, and make us colder. We were also only able to stay out a couple hours at a time because we were so cold!!! Lots of trips back to the lodge back then. Now I'm totally windproof and only go inside when my legs get too tired.

 

[marzNC]

When I started skiing more regularly about 15 years ago, I needed to wear insulated pants. Even when skiing in northern VA. As I collected new fangled outerwear and base layers, and improved my skiing ability I found that high-quality shell pants were better for temps over 15. I usually have base layer "long johns" and yoga pants underneath the shell pants. Long underwear come in different weights: light, medium, heavy. Most of the time I fly to ski, I usually bring light and medium. But if the temps are likely to be in the single digits, I bring along heavy weight long underwear.

I use a variety of combinations under a ski jacket. Most of the time that includes a vest of some type. When shopping for a ski jacket, I check for pit zips and a zipper pocket on the sleeve for an RFID card for lift access.

I got a nice soft-shell jacket on sale a few years ago. Haven't really figured out when to use it. Partially because it's a tighter fitting design with few pockets.

 

[Amie H]

I switched from leggings to "knicker" length base layer bottoms. Game changer! No more squishing up the legging legs so they didn't go into my boot. Only my ski sock goes in the boot. I have both thin merino-blend and insulated versions at knicker length that I got from backcountry.com on sale. Sizing runs true to size, not junior-sized, thankfully. I just recently got the second pair of merino blend ones on sale there at a reasonable price.

I usually wear a synthetic zipneck or mockneck top. If in very cold temps, with a "cuddl duds" long undershirt first over my sports bra (it's silky on the outside so your next layer glides right over it.)

Both my hardshell and insulated ski jacket have pit zips and it's the feature I would not do without! No more having a damp jacket at the end of the day. And like @marzNC noted, an RFID/pass card pocket on the sleeve is surprisingly helpful. I have also made use of the helmet-compatible hoods on both of my jackets while skiing in blustery/blizzardy/rainy conditions. Most helmet-compatible hoods are adjustable so you can then use the jacket and hood for everyday wear.

If in warmer temps, I wear what is basically a thin down vest with synthetic sleeves (breathable in the pits) and the hardshell over that. In deep winter and/or in the Midwest, I wear the heavier insulated ski jacket over my long undershirt and midlayer.

Get your own helmet! Worth it and it keeps your ears warm!! Way better than the hats/headbands of the 90s!

Also, as far as looking goofy popping int the gas station, rest stop, etc on the drive to/from, my sister wears an insulated "apres ski" skirt over her leggings and it's really cute. Me, I either leave my ski pants on or leave a loose pair of sweats in the car to discreetly pull over my baselayer bottoms if I have a long drive. The insulated baselayer knickers I can wear alone as they are totally opaque. I do look a tad goofy in them alone with knee socks, but they are really comfortable so...eh.

 

[marzNC]

Get your own helmet! Worth it and it keeps your ears warm!! Way better than the hats/headbands of the 90s!

Good point! I didn't get a helmet until my daughter was 6 and it was clear we'd be skiing pretty regularly. So much more comfortable than a wool hat. Especially when snowguns are on.

Helmets always go on sale during late season and over the summer. But if you haven't tried any on in a shop to know which brand/model fits best, then be prepared to send a few back if they don't fit comfortably.

When buying goggles, need to test them out with the helmet they will be used with. The advantage of sticking with the same brand for helmet and goggles is that the combination is more likely to match up well in the forehead area.

 

[VickiK]

Outer: Mostly an insulated jacket (soft-shell or any other ski jacket), sometimes a non-insulated hard shell jacket. Insulated ski pants.
Mid-layer: Synthetic 'technical' hoodie with full zipper or a synthetic vest or even both. I skip the mid-layers when it's warmer.
Next to body layer: Wool base layers for top and bottom.

This year I wore the hand-knit cowl that's shown in my picture; it's wool so it adds a lot of warmth. Other accessories for adding warmth: face-saver mask, balaclava.

I used to wear wool undies, but ordinary ones are just fine too.

 

[BlueSkies]

Normally I wear a wool or synthetic base layer (top and bottom), fleece, down or synthectic mid layer (unless it's warm) and an insulated jacket and pants for my outer layer.
But then there are reasons to wear sweatpants too. I ski in northern VT and at times the temperature is single digits or lower. If I don't keep my legs warm, my knees complain. Since I wear a hard leg brace for skiing, multiple layers of leggings under it don't work. I wear either a pair of non-cotton, fleece sweatpants or a wool sport pant (temperature dependent) over the brace and my 3/4 length base layer. (The cuff of these pants are wide enough to go over the boot)
Dress for the conditions (but remove the jacket when standing in that rental line).

 

[Chuyi]

Please buy yourself a MIPS helmet since u r skiing trees. Helmets r designed to take 1 hit only & u don't know what the previous renter did with the helmet. Costco sold an affordable mips spy helmet for less than $100. Bunch of helmets on sale right now. Treat ur helmet like ur head was in it at all times. Don't drop it, don't kick it... Bring it inside with ur boots. Ur brain is worth more than the $100 spent on helmet.

 

[newboots]

I bought a pair of "ankle length" (a little short) sweatpants that I wore when it was below zero (F.) and they sure made me happy. Almost all my lower baselayers are capri-length wool; it took me some time to change over as I owned a lot of full-length ones. It's really important that nothing goes inside your boots except your feet and socks. That's why the shorter sweatpants were acceptable. I disliked folding or bunching up longer baselayers.

I heat up quickly carrying my equipment, or skating on skis toward the lift. Also putting on my boots! I keep my jacket unzipped until I'm at the front of the liftline. My pit zips are almost always open. Walking around in snow on ski boots, or skating on the flats or uphill seem to require a whole lot of energy.

 

[Iwannaski]

I wear only leggings under my pants, but I have a pair of fairly warm LL Bean pants that do quite well, and I’m not a good enough skier to just glide effortlessly, so my legs generate a fair bit of heat. LOL. The only time I’ve been cold is when they had not removed the snow from the seat of the lift and I had to sit on a fixed grip lift up the mountain IN SNOW. I was clenching everything so tight there was no blood flow.

I wear generally the same type of synthetic REI base layer that I love (mid weight) and then an insulated Patagonia jacket. my ONLY variation is my mid layer. Super cold = Patagonia or North Face full zip sweater (car key goes in here usually, with pocket zipped) moderate (20s) = lighter mid layer; warm (30s) = no mid layer - but I hate mashed potato skiing, so it’s usually not a long day in these conditions.

I have different weights of gaiter, and then my furry hood that I wear if it’s below 25. Good helmets are pretty warm. I do have vents on mine to open when it gets toasty.

if you find yourself getting hot, a jacket with pit zips is ESSENTIAL.

My comfort point for temperature IRL is about 78… for reference.

 

[bluebluerose]

@Amie H An apres ski skirt? I love that idea!

These are such great ideas. Truly there is so much information and gear available, it's a big help to get ideas about different configurations. Aaaaaaaaand getting my own helmet just jumped up the priority chain. Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[chasinghorizons]

Hey again patient ladies. Cold weather gear has changed a lot since I was a teen in the 90s when I just wore cotton long johns under my jeans. I'm worried I'm doing this wrong. How do other people layer their clothes for the outdoors? Also, what on earth are softshells good for?

Currently I'm wearing the following:

Bottom layers -
Polyester underwear and sports bra (because cotton next to skin makes you clammy, correct?)
(Also is merino underwear really all that? If it is, great, just... not sure if it's necessary or gimmicky)
A synthetic fleecy-inside baselayer that I'm not sure is tight enough (How snug should it be? like a fitted t shirt, or second-skin, fetish latex body suit tight???)

Mid layers:
On top: a thicker wool sweater
On bottom: (please don't judge) sweatpants

Top layer:
Bibs cause waistbands drive me nuts
Coat: A softshell jacket zipped into a waterproof parka
Head: neck gaiter and a rental helmet.

I feel like a sweaty mess by the time I get through the rental line. I think I hate my softshell! Is it *really* necessary?

I have more than a sneaking suspicion that other people don't wear sweatpants inside their snowpants, but then... In my head I imagine stopping at the gas station on the way there and strutting into the bathroom in my skinny base layer pants and very GENEROUS middle aged booty and think 'nah just wear the sweats!'

What do other people wear on the mountain? Would love some other ideas!

Okay so having been lectured on this more times than I can count by DH who used to help design mountaineering gear for Patagonia, let me take a crack at this...

- Yes polyester is more quick-drying than cotton, so better for sweaty exercise activities.

- Base layer tightness - I'd say personal preference as long as it's not hanging off you like a bag. I personally go nuts if my base layers are too tight, especially if they bunch up in my armpits *shudders*

- A wool sweater is warm but not breathable. Good for cozying up around the house, not good for sweaty exercise. Same goes for sweatpants. Both will turn you into a sweaty mess once you start moving.

- The whole point of a uninsulated soft shell is to be breathable & wind resistant. You want your sweat to evaporate quickly, which is why you have breathable base, mid and outer layers - it all flows outwards. If you put a waterproof parka on top of all that, it is no longer going to evaporate well, nor block any wind, and you've just negated its whole purpose.

- Insulated soft shells are different from uninsulated soft shells. It's okay to wear an insulated soft shell as a mid-layer under a hardshell (good combo of warmth & some breathability - I'll do this on cold/windy days when I'm not sweating a lot). But uninsulated soft shells should only be used as an outer layer on warm days. If it's nippy in the morning, I may use a fleece mid-layer under an uninsulated soft shell. I also wear a small backpack to carry water and snacks, and I may take off my mid-layer if temperatures warm up a lot. It's nice to be able to take layers off if you get too warm.

- In general, you should pick which layers you wear according to the weather/temperature of the day. You never want non-breathable material on when you're exercising because it will be hot & wet when you're moving, and then turn cold & wet when you stop moving.

- Avoid down jackets when skiing. They are not durable and are much more likely to rip if you crash.

- Pit zips and an arm pocket for your ski pass are life.

 

[VickiK]

^ many great points, @chasinghorizons .

+1 for pit zips for personal climate control
Re: down ... breathability can be an issue if using down as an insulating layer.

 

[Jilly]

- Avoid down jackets when skiing. They are not durable and are much more likely to rip if you crash.

Couldn't live without a down jacket. A down jacket like the Lay-d-down from Columbia has a durable outer layer. At -20C you need down!

What you're talking about I feel is a "down sweater". Insulation only, no wind stop, no waterproofing either.

 

[chasinghorizons]

Couldn't live without a down jacket. A down jacket like the Lay-d-down from Columbia has a durable outer layer. At -20C you need down!

Very fair point, if you're in -20C then down is the way to go. Even though its more expensive, it will also last many many years, whereas synthetic loses most of its insulation after 2-3 years. Only thing is it's a pain to wash, you technically should use special detergent to wash it - regular detergent clumps and sometimes ruins the feathers so it doesn't provide as much insulation anymore. And only air-dry, no heat - sometimes we've had to run our down sleeping bags in the dryer for like 10 hours (they're really thick, heavy-duty ones since we winter backpack as well).

What you're talking about I feel is a "down sweater". Insulation only, no wind stop, no waterproofing either.

I haven't heard them referred to as down sweaters before but yes, generally jackets without a more durable outer layer.

 

[santacruz skier]

Patagonia calls them down sweaters. I have two (don’t ski in them) and one Patagonia down shirt. My storm outfit is Patagonia refugitive jacket and Stio Sweetwater fleece .

 

[geargrrl]

Agree on the down. I save it for when it's bitterly cold. Down will not insulate if it gets damp and I've been there: working hard powder skiing or hiking, sweating, down sweater gets damp and then I get chilled. If you like the insulated feel of a down sweater get a insulated sweater that is one of the synthetic down like replacements

Only thing is it's a pain to wash, you technically should use special detergent to wash it - regular detergent clumps and sometimes ruins the feathers so it doesn't provide as much insulation anymore. And only air-dry, no heat - sometimes we've had to run our down sleeping bags in the dryer for like 10 hours (they're really thick, heavy-duty ones since we winter backpack as well)

You are correct that air dry is the right way to dry down. What causes clumping has nothing to do with the detergent. Clumping is all about moisture still in the down; not air drying it long enough. You either have to break up the clumps by hand (sometimes over and over again) and/ or use tennis balls or clean sneakers to help break it up. When I had my business, I insisted people wash their stuff and it was not unusual to get down sweaters that people thought were dry because they fell dry initially when pulled from the dryer, but by the time they got to me they would be full of damp clumps of down as they weren't dried long enough.

The detergent thing is gentle is suggested because it won't strip the natural oils in the down. Down wash is basically baby shampoo without any added conditioners. Again, the detergent you use will not affect clumping as that's a drying issue, but detergent choice can affect overall longevity.


And then back to layering --- good descriptions esp. about the use of a wool sweater and softshells under other things. (tho as a knitter now I might have to beg to differ on sweaters)

I wear merino sports bra and undies... It's so nice not to have damp chilly bum or boobs.
My bottom layer is usually 200 wt stretch fleece under a shell pant with a second lighter layer under the fleece if it's really cold.
On top, merino sports bra, silkweight uniqlo followed by a 260 wt wool shirt and then either a 200 wt power wool or power stretch top, maybe a vest, Gore-tex shell. I revised some of my layers last season -got some new stuff - and I'm still working it out. Top with balaclava, neck gaiter and helmet and I'm good to go.