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Why ski resorts are dying

Simygirl

Certified Ski Diva
Welcome! Where else have you skied locally? There are ski areas without all the resort amenities of Camelback in the region that are not as expensive when it comes to lift tickets.
Thank you! I tried Shawnee but Camelback is way better. And I was inspired to buy the triple pass in December so it a great deal. What other resorts do you recommend that are a day trip from NYC?
 

Simygirl

Certified Ski Diva
Yeah I have to say the coverage they have given the lack of natural snow so far has been amazing. We have had mostly great days so far as long as you can get there before everything gets skied off.
True! Conditions were great this past Sunday considering it rained all day Saturday. But after 11am the snow got slushy. Got there early and left early.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Thank you! I tried Shawnee but Camelback is way better. And I was inspired to buy the triple pass in December so it a great deal. What other resorts do you recommend that are a day trip from NYC?
I grew up in NYC but didn't do a lot of skiing until long after my mother decided central NC was a better place to be retired. If I were still in NYC, I would be driving up to the Catskills or the Berkshires. Or perhaps to Montage or Elk.

I've stayed at the Shawnee timeshare resort and wandered over to take a look at the base. Looks like a great place for kids to learn. Also took a quick look at the Camelback base, which is clearly more of a 4-season resort with slopeside lodging. In comparison, Belleayre, Hunter, and Windham have more interesting terrain. Also crowded on weekends though. To avoid lift lines, need to drive a little farther to ski at Plattekill.

I've skied a day or two at Montage, Elk, Plattekill, Belleayre, and Hunter in recent years. Plattekill, Belleayre, and Hunter have added terrain and/or lifts since I was in the area.

Here's the Catskills thread for 2019-20:
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/catskills-ny-2019-20.24034/
 

Simygirl

Certified Ski Diva
Thank you! I’m new to skiing so this site is amazing! So much support and information! I’ll slowly try all the mountains you mentioned. I’ve been to Hunter as well, but as you mentioned is very crowded in the weekends. I’ll skip work and go during the week sometime.
 

sibhusky

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
If you don't mind fog, things are still reasonable here, parking is free. Walk up tickets are $83, but online is under $60/day.

But I have yet to ski a sunny day this season. I guess Mother Nature is trying to keep the crowds away.
 

Like2Ski

Angel Diva
Welcome to the Forum! Catamount is also a day trip from NYC with short lines and terrain for everyone. It’s a friendly mountain with discounted lift tickets on their website.
 

Peaheartsmama

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Most mountains in the area have pretty decent three pack tickets for 100-120 each if you watch out for deals in the fall. They usually stop selling them by dec/ early Jan. Shawnee, Mountain Creek and Camelback all do. Cant remember if Jack Frost does. I’ve tried lots of the resorts within about 2 hrs of NYC and so far CBK has the best progression of terrain for beginners/ early intermediates. You don’t go from bunny hill to top of the mountain - lots of trails to build confidence on for kids especially. But most of all, cheap ($10/hr) onsite daycare made it possible for me to take lessons and juggle two kids of varying abilities in the early years. One thing to note is they have a 199 three pack that gives you 3 lift tickets and three rentals. Pretty decent deal.
 

Fluffy Kitty

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
But I have yet to ski a sunny day this season. I guess Mother Nature is trying to keep the crowds away.

:smile:

The old "no sun" trick doesn't keep the crowds away here. Snow's the thing.

Totally. I have a pet peeve, about the fact that the crowd is always larger on powder days. Those are the worst days for beginners to learn or for intermediates to really get the appetite to come more often. I see all these people struggling in tracked-out Cascade Concrete Crud, the kind of snow that even experts struggle to glide through, abandoned all over the hill by their psyched-up buddies who were absolutely sure that one or two back-side first-chair runs would make a believer out of anyone. Nope. Spouses looking at spouses resentfully at each other. Children complaining about the travails of life. Advanced skiers realizing that they've bitten off a bit too much to chew, realizing that they haven't gotten their ski legs back for the season, realizing that they should have gone in for a cup of hot cocoa when the rest of the crew gave up...

I think resorts would do well to hype up the groomer days and cloudy-chilly days, rather than powder days; those are the best days for skiing, IMHO, for skiers of all levels, but especially for beginners. (Conversely, it really annoys me when Bachelor hypes up "fast snow". Way to scare off the beginners!)

And long-haul trips to large resorts are also not the best idea for beginners. Smaller, access-friendly, uncrowded hills can build confidence much faster. Someone should organize "never ever" tours to these humble mountains. (I've mentioned that I can often park a few dozen yards away from the lift, haven't I?)

That said, I second @Christy's observation that the Cascades are doing fine this season. Global warming has definitely cut down on the season (Bachelor was "early season" a whole week after Christmas! Everyone had scratched-out bases! Unheard of!) but I am not as worried about the interest among the old, the young, and the in between. What the Millennials forsake, Gen Z will embrace! :smile:
 

HikenSki

Angel Diva
Totally. I have a pet peeve, about the fact that the crowd is always larger on powder days. Those are the worst days for beginners to learn or for intermediates to really get the appetite to come more often.
I think resorts would do well to hype up the groomer days and cloudy-chilly days, rather than powder days; those are the best days for skiing, IMHO, for skiers of all levels, but especially for beginners.
I see the hype about powder and great soft spring conditions from some of our local mid-Atlantic resorts. Some of those conditions are very tough for beginners to learn on. I see struggles and yard sales all over, lots of crying and frustrated folks. There's something to be said about nice packed groomers that are easy to learn on. Thick bumped up snow is tough until you know how to ski it. Heck, even just the other day was a bit tough with piles of soft granular that you sunk into right next to hard, crusty slick snow. It took concentration to stay centered and balanced to avoid sliding out or catching a ski in the piles. There's something to be said about smooth groomers to cruise on and work on drills.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
Mission Ridge in WA (near Wenatchee--out of day trip distance for the Seattle/Tacoma/Everett area) is trying to hugely expand--to turn their 2000 acre day use ski area into a destination with almost 1000 condos or townhouses, a hotel, a large expansion of downhill skiing, a new nordic area, new day lodges, new parking, etc etc. They say both that skiing is growing and they want to capitalize that, and that they can't handle the crowds that come some days...and also, that they don't make a profit and won't unless they upgrade and expand. I thought this was interesting in terms of the whole "skiing is dying/skiing is too crowded" debate as they are saying, skiing is really popular but we still can't make money. (Of course we have to take them at their word there). I suppose it's really about the real estate. This is actually a big deal since in WA we don't have ski "resorts" just ski areas.

From the Environmental Assessment:

Use at Mission Ridge has grown steadily since opening in 1966; from 68,000 visits in 1966-67 to 114,000 visits in 2016-17. The projection for the 2019-2020 season is 127,000 visits, an increase of 11% (RRC Associates, 2018). In the Pacific Northwest, snow sports visits during 2015 -2018 were 20% higher than visits during 1995-1998 (US Ski Area Association, 2019). There is increasing interest and demand for developed alpine skiing and associated recreational opportunities on the Forest and near population centers. For example, from 2000-2009, recreation across the nation increased by 7% (Cordell 2012). In general, skiing is anticipated to be one of the top five activities to experience growth (Cordell 2012), while user-days at developed ski areas are estimated to increase by 40% from 2008-2030 (White et al. 2014). The Forest Plan anticipated growth in the alpine ski industry, and subsequently, an increase in winter sports and snow-related recreation on the forest, and specifically increased visitor use at developed alpine skiing sites.

Even in a good year for skier visits, Mission Ridge is not profitable. There are no funds available for capital facility improvement. Mission Ridge has not been able to substantially infiltrate the Puget Sound market because of tough competition from closer Washington ski areas and British Columbia ski-in/ski-out areas. Mission Ridge cannot continue to operate as a hometown day-use ski area with outdated facilities. Continuing changes in the recreation industry, an increasingly sophisticated user, improved ski equipment, and competition from other ski areas demand continual upgrades, diversification, and improvements. Areas that fail to upgrade and remain competitive in the marketplace suffer declining visits and eventual loss of capital for maintaining a quality recreation experience. In order to continue to operate as a successful enterprise and provide quality developed recreation opportunities to the public, the facilities need to be diversified and improved.
 

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