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Why can't you simply fill the toe of a boot that's too big?

Lilfoot1598

Certified Ski Diva
Okay, this is probably a newbie question, but I'm still struggling with my boot saga. It seems that the Lange WC 120 boots I recently bought are too big. Again. Other than the store I'm working with now, there isn't a single store in my area that carries a boot in my size. I went back to the store where I purchased the boots to explore my options. My salesperson was so exasperated with my feet after an hour and a half that he left to find sole inserts for my boots and just never came back. I left the store in tears and am now convinced that there is no boot out there that is a fit.

Sooo....that leads me to the question above. I understand that you can never make a too large boot smaller, but can someone please explain why? Why will creating a piece to fit inside the toe of the shell not work to keep the foot from sliding around? Why can't a custom liner with a padded toe piece not overcome large boot issues?

My husband thinks that making a toe piece will fix my boot, which otherwise fits very well.

My bootfitter is convinced that creating a custom liner is the only way to make an adult boot of any kind fit my foot.

I know that both are discouraged, but I don't know why! Please give me some ammo!
 

perma-grin

Instructor PSIA L 3, APD Alpine Ski training MHSP
I'm not familar with what your previous boot saga was, but in answer to can you simply fill the toe box . The answer is : that is exactly what a few of the manufactures already do with the smaller sizes. They build a smaller liner and put a toe dam on the footboard of the boot. It helps them avoid building smaller shell sizes in some models. Usually occuring in a 22 and a 23 shell size always look for the boot sole length on the side of the boot heel. For example a 22 or ladies 5 should roughly be around a 265mm and a 23 (or 6) will fall in the range of 275mm. Is it a good thing? NO IT SUCKS. The ball of your foot is not positioned in the correct place in the boot box. Nor is the ball of your foot where it should be ideally on the ski, reguardless if it's a boot center mark or a toe mount. Your toes and ball of the foot aren't where they are suppost to be in the boot. Why doesn't the store just order you the correct size in the boot that they sold you?:noidea:
 

Lilfoot1598

Certified Ski Diva
That makes a lot of sense. I didn't think about the pressure and the placement of the foot. I simply thought it was a matter of keeping the foot from moving around.

My shop won't order my size because my size doesn't really exist. I wear a size 21 (max 260mm sole), which doesn't exist in an adult boot. I'm looking for a junior boot in my size, but nobody in the Portland, OR area carries one for me to try on. I can't even find a decent bootfitter in the area to look at my foot and give me some good advice. It's been quite the nightmare, actually, and I'm now trying to keep my well-intentioned husband from taking matters into his own hands my creating a home-made toe piece.
 

michpc

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Do you have a ski trip planned in the near future? A ski town will probably have a lot of shops and might have more options for you. Sorry you're having such a hard time!
 

Lilfoot1598

Certified Ski Diva
No ski trips this year, unfortunately. My husband and I are just getting into snow sports, so we've spent a good deal of money this year on our gear. I've heard of other women who live near some of the major Colorado resorts who haven't been able to locate size 21 boots after several years of searching! It's a truly rare size. :(
 

bklyn

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
- Any padding that is put in the boot will eventually compress.
- The boot will become looser and looser with every use.
- A loose boot allows too much movement under the strong forces applied while skiing. It isn't like walking.
- Loose boots perform poorly.
- You will be subject to pain, may lose your toenails for a season along with a host of other potential problems (shin bang, blisters, etc).
- Add what perma-grin mentioned about your foot placement in the boot.

Before you do any modifications to a boot that is too big... return them and get your money back. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a junior race boot and they will be appropriate for your height and weight.

A 'custom' liner isn't going to perform well if it has to take up as much room as you have. They are designed to work with a proper shell fit, not to fill up inches of volume. This will be throwing good money after bad.

Take the advice of people who have been skiing for a long time (here and on epic) and have gone through the trial, error, pain, lost toenails, etc. caused by ill fitting equipment.

Return those boots and get a refund - run, don't walk. A shop that can't fit you properly may sell you the smallest size they have to get rid of it. It sounds like this is just what they did. Find a shop that carries a full line of junior and adult sizes and you'll probably get a better selection to choose from.

Boots are the one piece of equipment where there isn't much room for compromise. I don't think you'll find a woman on this site that will say it's okay to compromise on boot fit.
 

Lilfoot1598

Certified Ski Diva
-
Before you do any modifications to a boot that is too big... return them and get your money back. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a junior race boot and they will be appropriate for your height and weight.

A 'custom' liner isn't going to perform well if it has to take up as much room as you have. They are designed to work with a proper shell fit, not to fill up inches of volume. This will be throwing good money after bad.

Take the advice of people who have been skiing for a long time (here and on epic) and have gone through the trial, error, pain, lost toenails, etc. caused by ill fitting equipment.

Return those boots and get a refund - run, don't walk. A shop that can't fit you properly may sell you the smallest size they have to get rid of it. It sounds like this is just what they did. Find a shop that carries a full line of junior and adult sizes and you'll probably get a better selection to choose from.

Boots are the one piece of equipment where there isn't much room for compromise. I don't think you'll find a woman on this site that will say it's okay to compromise on boot fit.

The problem has been magnified by the fact that no store in my area carries a full line of boots. There just isn't anything for me to try on. I've been avoiding junior boots because that means I'll have to replace my bindings (with every junior race boot except the Tecnica Diablo, which isn't small enough for me). If I replace my bindings, I also have to return my skis (I bought a binding/ski package at REI) and start completely from scratch.

I've pretty much decided on a junior boot/binding combo. Now the trick is finding a bootfitter who is worth my hard-earned money! :eyebrows:

I'm glad you mentioned the problem with a custom liner. The ski shop was convinced that was my only option, but I argued that new liners would not solve the problem. The salespeople didn't appreciate me questioning their authority and ended up just walking out on me. Now I have to get them to take my boots back :faint:

It's been a long road....
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Yes, you're right about the bindings too. The toe and heel piece are a different height than adult boots. But if the boot fits, and the skis/bindings aren't a rail system, then get the junior bindings, remount and sell the original bindings.
 

Lilfoot1598

Certified Ski Diva
Yes, you're right about the bindings too. The toe and heel piece are a different height than adult boots. But if the boot fits, and the skis/bindings aren't a rail system, then get the junior bindings, remount and sell the original bindings.

I just called REI and the ski/bindings are a rail system. Nothing I can do but return them and start again. All I can do is laugh at this point. :ROTF:
 

snowday

Certified Ski Diva
I have narrow, low volume size 6 foot and I had very hard time in finding boots. I found that many online sites have better selection, better prices, no taxes for out of state, low shipping and returning costs. I bought from:

https://www.bahnhof.com/sports/prod...froogle&key_id=NordicaAggressor100SkiBoot0708

These are in uk size, I bought size 4 for my size 6 us. I'm not sure if size uk 3 for these particular boot would fit...but maybe it's worth a try if you need high performance boots, as the Lange you have.
I still needed my local bootfitter to adjust the boots. And I added custom footbeds.
 

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ooooohhh....good call on Bahnhof. That's were I get all my fitting done. Unfortunately, "my" fitter left for a "real" job, but the Petoskey location still has 2 other fitters with tons of experience (including working in manufacturer's boot room and World Cup fitting). They have really stood behind their merchandise and work.
 

Little Lightning

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I also have a little foot, size 5 shoe. I've gone through the jr race boot, boots too big, boots with the shell toe filled in, got black toe nails from those.

Outdoor Divas has the the Head Dream Thangs in a size 22, 220 shell size. https://www.outdoordivas.com/outdoo...ts+(2009)&pf_id=PAAAAAMCIIKLDEFP&dept_id=5636

I wear these and love them. I've skied over 80 days in them which is a record for me and ski boots. My foot is very thin and the only adjustment I had to have was a shim put underneath the footbed which is a Superfeet Berry. I'm 5'2" and 105 lbs. I love the way they still hold my heel which is something that I could not say for any of my prior boots including Lange's. My bootfitter says I have a "classic" Lange foot and recommended an old model the L8 which I still have.

You are best with skis that are not on a rail. Binding systems are placed for an average woman's foot, size 24-25, I don't remember which. So with your small foot the railed system does not put you in the best position on the ski. With a flat ski the shop can customize your boot at the center boot marking of the ski or where it works best for you. Also, because of the small foot your bindings need to be forward, again because your foot is not large enough to pressure the ski from the traditional position.

Goodluck, I've been dealing with this issue for many years so I understand your frustration.
 

canski

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I understand the frustrations - I wear a size 6 1/2 - 7 shoe and squeeze into a 22 boot (the 23's just seem too long and I ski 40 or so days/year, so they pack out quickly). My shop will order anything, but early (fall or the year before when they are putting in orders) is better. It is tough not being able to try on first, but I don't have to buy them if I don't like them.
As far as bindings go - make sure you can adjust them small enough - some only go down to 270 sole length (mine are 265) - problem with demoing skis, as well - particularly unisex! Because of the short boot sole, try to like the skis that come with bindings that adjust fore and aft (Fischer - which also does go small enough) so you can try them centered or forward. Plus, if deciding on ski length, the smaller boot size is a good reason to go with the shorter ski option.
Good luck in your quest - it will be worth it in the end.
 

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