Question: Whistler vs. LL/Sunshine the week before U.S. President's day long weekend [Adv. beginners]

[alison wong]

1st of all thanks everyone responded to my previous thread on LL ski trip from DC in Feb. (President's long weekend). There is a slight twist in my planning. It turns out my 14 year old nephew (from Hong Kong) would like to join me for the Feb. Ski trip. Now we are looking at the week before President's day weekend (i.e. Feb. 4th till Feb. 13th) because that's his school break for Chinese New Year. He would fly from HK to Canada. Reason we decided on Canada (instead of U.S.) is because Canada does not require visa for HK residents.

With that said, the 14-year-old will be traveling alone (parents don't ski) and it'd be better if he can get a direct flight (no transfers), so we thought about Vancouver, Whistler Blackcomb. Alternatively, we also thought about if my father can accompany him, we can consider Calgary (LL/Sunshine).

I consider myself as an adv. beginner at best (skied only in the east coast, VT, WV, and PA) and can manage easy blues at Killington, VT. For my 14 year-old nephew, he's skied in Zurich, Switzerland (school org. ski trip) twice past 2 years. He claimed he can do the intermediate runs in Switzerland (he can do the red runs in Swiss, which is equiv. of blues here per my nephew).

But realizing every resort has their own "definition" on the difficulty of terrains, I am a bit "skeptical" about his ability. After all, he's only skied twice in the same resort in Switzerland.



I read few reviews on both places and my main concern is the icy, rainy and unpredictable conditions in Whistler. Also it can get foggy there. Per a guy from a local ski club, the way Whistler is situated (in relations to the sun), it gets icy in lower half of the mtn. and good condition in the upper part. I can only speak for myself, with my ability, I am not sure if I can manage to go all the way to top and ski down.... If I stay in the lower part of the mtn., it is no fun to ski on icy conditions. So, it might be a waste to not able to experience the entire terrains?

As for LL/Sunshine, I thought it would be more reliable in terms of snow conditions and snow quality. However, I read few forums here and it seems not to be the case.



Here is my million $$ question:

Where do you recommend we shall go? If we go to LL/Banff, how many days do you recommend we shall ski? 2 days each for the tri area + kicking horse? Or only stick w/ LL and Sunshine because of our ability?



With our limited ability, can we take full adv. of what WB can offer if we go there?



Thank you in advance for your thoughts and suggestions!

 

[Jilly]

I've never skied WB in any form of ice. And I'm an East coast skier. Rain, yes....that can happen. BC has a holiday Monday the week before President's week, but it's only the one day. There is lots of on hill accommodations at WB. As for your skiing ability, WB has it down pat. There is always an easy way from the top of both mountains. For example last time out, Lizzy went down a central trail, while I took the mogul field right beside it. So lots of variety. This is really bad for a Canadian skier, but I've never skied Sunshine, Lake Louise or been to Banff besides a quick stop on the bus to Panorama. So I'll leave that up to the Alberta's Diva's.

 

[DanniAB]

If you're skeptical on his ability, I'd highly suggest Sunshine.
There's lots of gentle stuff there & the terrain is wide open so you can always pick a mellow line.

Lake Louise is quite steep for the less experienced --- It also tends to have icy days.

At Sunshine, you can always "follow the sun" and avoid ice. Start your morning at Wawa, then move to Standish, then move to the Great Divide, then finish your day at Goat's Eye. That's how you avoid ice at Sunshine.

Mt. Norquay is 20 minutes from Sunshine and offers fun groomed runs of intermediate ability. It's really small compared to the other 2 places, but the lift tickets are much cheaper. I think Norquay has "charm". The other 2 places seem so "big & corporate", Norquay has a "small-town" kinda feel.

 

[alison wong]

Hi Thanks for all your replies. Much appreciated. We decided on WB. Because he will be flying alone from Hong Kong and does not feel comfortable about doing transfers. With that said, Vancouver is the only choice (direct flight). We will be staying at WB 1 week. He leaves the following Friday and once I drop him off at the airport, I will be going to LL/Sunshine myself and spend the long weekend there. I only can ski for 2 days there - has to fly back on Feb. 15th.
I know I am crazy for 2 good reasons: 1) I really want to visit LL /Sunshine in winter time (heard the scenery is incredible); 2) since I bought the Mtn Collective Pass, it covers LL/Sunshine, I might as well utilize it since I am near that "neck of the woods.".
Having said that, yes DanniAB - I will follow your advice, I will hit Sunshine Day 1 and plan out my route to "chase the sun" (per your advice). Much appreciated. As for Day 2, I may hit LL (?) - undecided. I will avoid Norquay as I heard it is quite "steep".

 

[Christy]

Whistler has good group lesson programs-I'd highly recommend doing those. WB is so big, especially if you have limited abilities it will be hard to know where to go otherwise. The instructor will know where conditions are good. And, you get to skip lines in a lesson, and lines they'd can be awful. And yes, you're right that you won't be able to take full advantage of what the area offers, but that's going to be true of anywhere until you're an advanced skier. And even advanced skiers can't ski a lot of what's at WB-there's a ton of expert stuff I know I'll never be able to ski.

The thing about the bottom of the mountain is, it's more prone to freeze/thaw cycles due to it's low elevation, so you can encounter some truly abysmal conditions. The last couple years it's been so bad I don't even ski down anymore-I download on the gondola. In really cold years it's not as much of an issue. One cool thing about WB is that there's a green called Burnt Stew that starts at the top of the mountain, and shows you gorgeous scenery. It's a crowded cat track, but worth dealing with on a beautiful day for the view. The main green area is of the Emerald chair, and this is high enough to be out of the lower freeze/ thaw zone. It's very crowded here though.

Thinking about BC resorts that are more accommodating for an advanced beginner or lower intermediate, I'd say Sun Peaks. But SP definitely lacks the amenities that Whistler has (it also lacks the crowds). It's a very small remote purpose built resort, where Whistler is an international destination with lots to do. You can drive to SP from Vancouver. But, I can see went you might want to go to Whistler, even if there isn't as much terrain for you.

 

[Jilly]

I agree with Christy....snow school for sure. The website is quite complete about the school. And if you have any questions, I've friends that are instructors there.

Sun Peaks or Panorama too.

 

[alison wong]

My nephew signed up for a youth whole day group lesson already. it will be on Feb. 7th (Sunday). I told him, he can consider doing more lessons if he wants (first to see how his 1st lesson goes). Jilly, is there anyway you can tell me who is good instructor for youth group lesson? (PM me if not appropriate to post name here)? I can try to request that person on the day of his lesson.

As for me, I am not sure. Because we will be at WB 6 days, the kid plans to ski for 6 days straight. I don't think my knees can handle 6 days of skiing. So I plan to break for 1 day. The only day I can rest will be the day he takes his lesson. Other days (if he does not sign up for additional lessons), I will have to ski (accompany) with him the whole time. It is a huge responsibility to take care of someone else's kid.... (he is the only child, the baby of our family).

Christy: Thanks for the tip. Actually while we are on this topic, can you advise/ recommend where we can start, where to visit subsequent days? WB is so huge and we are a bit lost as where to go first..... We plan to take the 11:30 a.m tour the 1st day there... We will stay at Crystal Lodge. My nephew asked if we can manage to ski on the 1st day from peak to peak? Do you know?

The only big resort I've skied before was at Killington, VT. My plan of "attack" at Killington was: divided the area up and planned to hit certain area the morning, afternoon, next day..... Once I covered all the areas, then I went back to the areas / trials I liked the most, tried to visit few more times... for WB, will this work? i.e. divide and conquer?

 

[Christy]

Since he's only there because you offered to be there too, and since he's still a kid, can't you tell him that he NEEDS to take more lessons because you can't ski 6 days straight (I also would take a break)? If you get hurt because your legs are tired, that's not going to be good for either of you!

I've never skied in the east so I don't know that I can be very helpful in figuring out what is like the easy blues at Killington. I think it's better to take a lesson then ask the instructor where they'd point you. In terms of easier runs--I already mentioned the Emerald area for greens and easy blues, and if conditions are good on the lower mountain, you can ski all the way down from the Emerald area to the village via greens. The Symphony area has some of the easier blues at W-B (Jeff's Ode to Joy is one), and it's beautiful up there.

 

[Jilly]

I think he means - ride Peak to Peak. It's the gondola that connects the 2 mountain tops. As for lessons, I'll contact a few instructors and see who's back this year. I would think about morning lessons most days and then the 2 of you ski together in the afternoon.

I've never skied K-ton either, but @Lizzy has done both WB and K-ton. Lizzy ideas?

 

[alison wong]

Thanks Christy and Jilly. Yes, probably he meant riding peak to peak. For youth lesson, it is a whole day only, there is no half day offered. Only adult lesson offers half day. The date of his lesson will be Feb. 7th (Sunday), youth group 12 - 17 yrs. old (I think).

 

[marzNC]

Thanks Christy and Jilly. Yes, probably he meant riding peak to peak. For youth lesson, it is a whole day only, there is no half day offered. Only adult lesson offers half day. The date of his lesson will be Feb. 7th (Sunday), youth group 12 - 17 yrs. old (I think).

Looks to me like booking 2 days of lessons in the teen group is a much better deal than just one day, especially if on a weekend.

If you are lucky, he may make a friend who has compatible parents you could ski with for a few hours later in the ski vacation. Or at least meet up with for lunch or dinner. Spending an entire week with a teen 1-1 is not that easy, regardless how good a relationship you have.

 

[alison wong]

Ha! Great minds think alike! That's what I thought also. I tried to instill the idea that he can add onto few more days of lesson if he wants to. If he can do 2 more days of lesson, I can at least do a full day lesson myself and also can have a rest day. Yes, I also hope he can make some friends from this trip. But I won't feel comfortable of turning them loose to ski on their own, I will prefer to follow them and keep a close eye on the kid. (Like I said, taking care of someone else's kid is a big responsibility.)

 

[marzNC]

Ha! Great minds think alike! That's what I thought also. I tried to instill the idea that he can add onto few more days of lesson if he wants to. If he can do 2 more days of lesson, I can at least do a full day lesson myself and also can have a rest day. Yes, I also hope he can make some friends from this trip. But I won't feel comfortable of turning them loose to ski on their own, I will prefer to follow them and keep a close eye on the kid. (Like I said, taking care of someone else's kid is a big responsibility.)

Agree you do not send off a couple of kids who just met to ski on their own. What I was talking about is skiing together with another family who also had a teen in the youth lesson. Takes a lot of luck and requires being very out-going with strangers but can be a way to find ski buddies for at least an hour or two.

 

[alison wong]

Hi Just want to thank you all for the great advice. I just returned from WB and Banff (Sunshine and LL) today, 6 days at WB, 2 days in Banff. My nephew enjoyed so much and he said, this is the best ski trip he's ever had. He is very good at directions and maps. Also he favors the blues and blacks. Basically I followed him to different trails and explored couple blacks (Ravens and Dave Murray downhill) and many blues at WB. He clearly is a stronger skier than me (even though this is his 3rd ski trip, prior 2 were at Verbier in Switzerland).

He skied 6 days straight at WB without a break day and he is not tired. He did 3 day youth group lessons and I did 2 day adult lessons. The kid is smart, because he knows with my ability, he would not be able to visit many blues / blacks if he was stuck with me. So he asked me to sign him up for more day lessons so he can ski with the kids that are at his level.

Our 1st day was the first time I experienced powder snow, they got 67 cm overnight and that morning, it was so crowded because everyone wanted to hit the fresh track. The subsequent several days, we experienced various conditions within one day in one mtn: i) warm temperature and it felt like spring skiing, ii) some rains in mid mtn and we were soaked inside out; iii) icy condition in the morning and I felt like I was skiing on ice, iv) foggy condition with poor visibility but luckily i was at a group lesson and the instructor knew exactly where we should be headed (that was the most scary day). Then the last day afternoon at WB, we had another powder dump, so we finished the WB trip on a high note. We covered most non-black trails in Whistler, my favorite ones are: Burnt Stew and Ode to joy (Thanks Christy!).

I then travelled solo to LL and Sunshine, I enjoyed it also. They have more "local" feel and it makes me feel rather "homey" (esp. at Sunshine). I enjoyed the terrains at Sunshine because it was gentler and the views remind me of WB. Also, the snow is powdery. LL is icier and steeper, I felt the blues at LL is equivalent to solid black at WB. I only got to visit the front side of LL because one chair lift to the back mtn was broken. I could have accessed it from another chair, but that requires me to go through a blue, so I decided to avoid it....

Overall, after this trip, I felt more confident in my levels as I conquered my first blacks at WB (Ravens and Dave Murray downhill), did few moguls, jumped on a box (fell because I was doing a wedge). I think I am more comfortable to ski on blues and even blacks if the snow condition is good. Definitely it was a productive trip and thank you all again for your great advice. Much appreciated.