Question: Whats your set up? AT/ Backcountry

[DeweySki]

i've got the shift binding on the 2018-19 93 nordica santa ana's. i'm really looking forward to skiing with them and touring with them. there is snow at Killington already i'm sure we will start getting snow at Hunter, NY next month sometime and i will get to test it then and come back here and review it!

Keep us posted on the Shifts, I have been waiting to hear someone's first-experience, esp from non-pro, normal skiers like us

 

[echo_VT]

totally! will do -

 

[echo_VT]

So I’m still waiting on the shift bindings :( ... the rep says mid to late December. Not happy as I planned to take them touring in Canada the first week of January. :/ I hope they are worth the wait...!

 

[TeleChica]

Late to the party--how did I miss this? Bit of a tele dirtbag, but here goes:

Backpack - Osprey Camber 32, just started using this--big upgrade from old unisex backpack. So far very happy, nice fit, and plenty of room. Inside: Ditty bag with blister stuff, gobstopper, repair kit, ski scraper in case of ice ups, headlamp, compass, map, pee/poop bag with TP and hand sanitizer, splint, ace bandage, extra batteries, small insulated pad to sit on, emergency bivy, extra layers and gloves and warm hat. Reminds me I need a new multi tool.
Skis - Volie Vectors (no fishscales). These skis are my absolute favorite--so light, super turny, just funfunfun!
Beacon: NA, don't really need it for the BC we do here. Need to get one for a Western trip.
Bindings: Voile CRBs. Not made anymore, but I am hanging on to them for now. Not really relevant for most here.
Skins: Q3--they work fine.
Boots: Garmont Electras with new Intuition liners--why did I wait so long to replace my old liners?! These are great. If you need new boot liners, DO NOT WAIT.
Poles: Old Black Diamond poles with the front cutout in the basket so it's easier to plant on a steeper uphill. I wish they still made these.
Pants: Men's BD Dawn patrol. Wonderful softshell and THEY FIT. Layer with wool long johns and it's comfy.
Jackets: Arc Teryx Atom LT Hoody or Patagucci Nano puff, Arc Teryx Beta AR (really need something that fits better--the new one is smaller than previous :( ) Will bring a super warm down layer (Marmot 800 fill jacket that packs small) if it's really cold out for lunch stops/emergencies.
Gloves: Wool liner gloves work great for the up--I bring a couple of pairs so I always have a dry pair. For the down I have a pair of softshell climbing gloves, single layer, I got at EMS years ago and lost until last year. They are the best--keep my hands really warm. If it's super cold (below 15-20 F), I have the Hestra trigger finger gloves. Nothing warmer.
Helmet/hats: Smith Variance for the down, very thin Skuda hat for skinning or thin smartwool hat if it's cold. Thick wooly Norweigan hat or LL Bean Bomber hat for bitter cold days as backup/emergency.
Eye protection: sunglasses or Smith goggles for really cold days.

Note that I ski BC in New England, so most times we are in the woods, although it can get blustery there too.

 

[echo_VT]

updated for new gear!

Skis: Moment Balance 161 - light rocker, 2019 Nordica Santa Ana 93 in 161, 2018 DPS Zelda A106 in 158
Boots: Scarpa Gea 24.5, molded, with intuition liners
Bindings: Dynafit (don't know model), Atomic Shift bindings, Dynafit ST 2.0
Skins: G3 for all 3. the first 2 share the same skins.
Poles: Black Diamond (don't know model)
Pants: Arc'teryx Beta SV bib pants
Jacket: MEC shell (don't know model), Arc'teryx Sentinel LT
Puffys: Arc'teryx LT Atom hoody, Patagonia down sweater
Body Layers: Icebreaker 200 and 260 wool weights, Patagonia Better Sweater Hoody (not recommended for touring, so removing it from the rotation)
Gloves: a variety of Head gloves I buy from CostCo each year - they're my uphill, cycling, driving and running gloves for the winter; downhill i use my Hestras mitts
Misc Face Layers: wool buff, MEC skullcap
Backpack: Mystery Ranch women's Patrol 35
Avalanche Beacon: Arva Neo
Shovel: Camp model
Probe: Camp model
Helmet: Giro
Goggles: Giro, Oakley
Sunglasses and ball cap: whatever I have available
Headlamp: petzl

@DeweySki i reviewed the shifts on another thread. if you'd like to know what i think of them i can answer again here if you want, or you can search what i said. feel free to ask me anything about them i didn't talk about yet -

 

[aliwill]

What a fun thread! I'm loving reading these. Will add my gear and highlight my favorites. I am a bit of a gear hoarder! I do alpine touring in the PNW—some volcanoes, mostly day tours. These are my touring setups; I also have a pair of Camox Birdies that probably won't venture out of the resort.

Skis: Armada Trace 98s in 164 (like, don't love) / Soul 7 HD W in 172 (great in pow)
Boots: La Sportiva Sparkle / Lange XT 110 LV Freetour (mostly inbounds)
Bindings: Old Dynafits...ST 2s? / Fritschi Techtons
Skins: BD Ascension STS / G3 Alpinist
Poles: BD Compactor (bent two pairs already!)
Pack: Deuter Rise 32 (love the back entry, wish it had a helmet sling)
Pants: OR Hemispheres bibs (These are **amazing**—great in any temp, super comfy, beacon pocket)
Top layers: Arcteryx Atom LT / Patagonia Nano / Eddie Bauer Evertherm / Feathered Friends Ellia
Top base: Lots of Ibex / Costco wool tops (as cheap as $10!)
Bottom base: Ibex / awesome full-zip Northern Playground Ziplongs <--Game-changer.
Hardshell: Arcteryx Beta LT / Patagona Triolet
Helmet: Smith Valence (want to get a Vantage for the weight)
Goggles: Older Smiths
Beacon: Tracker 3 (so noisy! but slim)
Gloves: Various OR, including Baker mitts / POW Empress GTX (loving these leather guys)
Doggles: RexSpecs (for my favorite ski buddy, my dog)

 

[laine]

Hi All! I took an Intro to Backcountry class yesterday and am considering some gear. I bought boots after the class because I was swimming (width-wise) in the rentals and there's no way I could do a 3-day Avy 1 class in them.

I was on the 2019 Armada Trace 98 (size 156) for the Intro class, but it was tough to tell how they skied because the boots were so big that I wasn't really getting a good connection to the ski. So I definitely want to check them out again, as well as demo other skis.

So today, I went to the four shops I know in Tahoe (North Lake) that rent backcountry gear, and these are my options for demo. I'm thinking of something in the 100-ish range to be a one-ski quiver.

• Armada Trace 98, 156
• Elan Ripstick 102, 156
• DPS Ushi A94, 157
• DPS Yvette A100, 163 - too long?
• Armada Trace 88, 156 - too narrow for a one-quiver?
• G3 Seeker Elle 100, 154 - too light for Sierra cement?
• Icelantic Mystic 97, 155

That's just what I can demo locally in my size. I'm 5'1", 115-120-ish lbs, depending.... This will be a specific touring setup for the Tahoe area. I have separate boots and skis for the resorts. I will likley not be a storm chaser. Since my husband isn't interested in touring, I'd have to plan/sign up for tours in advance.

Thoughts on the list? Other skis I should research that I might not be able to demo?

Anyway, this is what I currently have - which is quite a bit, since I've been skiing for a long time, and I'm a pack rat. Suggestions welcome for the blank spaces. :-)

Boots: Dynafit Hoji PX
Skis:
Bindings:
Skins:
Poles:
Pack: Osprey Kresta 30 XS/S - love that they make packs for short torsos
Puffies: Patagonia Nano Air / Patagonia Nano Puff / Arcteryx Cerium LT
Top layers/fleece: SmartWool Smartloft Hoodie / various fleece options
Top base: various SmartWool
Bottom base: various SmartWool / Patagonia capilene
Softshell: Mountain Hardware - it's 5+ years old, don't remember the model, but it's an awesome purple, Marmot biking wind jacket (6+ years old, don't remember the model)
Hardshell: Outdoor Research - about 4 years old, don't remember the model, Arcteryx hard shell (discontinued model and I can't remember the name, I want to say it started with an L) / Haglofs Roc Spirit
Pants: Marmot Tour Pant (softshell) / Arcteryx Sentinel (hardshell) / Marmot Cheeky pants (hardshell with insulated, removable shorts)
Helmet: Pret
Goggles: Smith I/Os
Gloves: Various Hestra including Heli Glove, Heli Lobster/3-finger, Ergo Grip, Kobolt Czone (their work glove), and Dakine glove liners
Beacon: Mammut Barryvox
Shovel: Mammut Alugator Light - it's pink!
Probe: BD QuickDraw Probe Tour 280

 

[Analisa]

That's just what I can demo locally in my size. I'm 5'1", 115-120-ish lbs, depending.... This will be a specific touring setup for the Tahoe area. I have separate boots and skis for the resorts. I will likley not be a storm chaser. Since my husband isn't interested in touring, I'd have to plan/sign up for tours in advance.

Thoughts on the list? Other skis I should research that I might not be able to demo?

Pandora 94/104 and Backland 102 are the only ones I see often that aren't on your list. (I've quite enjoyed both and the $499 pricepoint is extra appealing.) @aliwill and 4-5 of our friends all swiped them up last spring, and with the 102 getting phased out, it might be really sharply priced once MAP price policies end in March.

100ish underfoot is usually a really sweet spot, and I try to keep weight around 6-6.5lbs for the high 160s. I've found it's a nice spot where I can knock out 7k of vert in a day, but that it's also heavy enough not to get taken for a ride in cascade concrete. (However, it is hella heavy for carries with glacier or overnight gear in tow. If you plan to make a significant number of tours long - like Shasta or trips to Europe for the Haute Route, I'd skew lighter like the G3s or the Talkback series. Oh, and Voile has hands down, the best coverage of waist widths for skis in the 150s. (My brother demoed the Superchargers and had good things to say about them).

The Trace 88s aren't crazy - might be a touch narrow for big storms, but the shape has pretty deep rocker lines and noticeable tip splay - it'll definitely ski wider than the number on the waist.

 

[laine]

Pandora 94/104 and Backland 102 are the only ones I see often that aren't on your list. (I've quite enjoyed both and the $499 pricepoint is extra appealing.) @aliwill and 4-5 of our friends all swiped them up last spring, and with the 102 getting phased out, it might be really sharply priced once MAP price policies end in March.

100ish underfoot is usually a really sweet spot, and I try to keep weight around 6-6.5lbs for the high 160s. I've found it's a nice spot where I can knock out 7k of vert in a day, but that it's also heavy enough not to get taken for a ride in cascade concrete. (However, it is hella heavy for carries with glacier or overnight gear in tow. If you plan to make a significant number of tours long - like Shasta or trips to Europe for the Haute Route, I'd skew lighter like the G3s or the Talkback series. Oh, and Voile has hands down, the best coverage of waist widths for skis in the 150s. (My brother demoed the Superchargers and had good things to say about them).

The Trace 88s aren't crazy - might be a touch narrow for big storms, but the shape has pretty deep rocker lines and noticeable tip splay - it'll definitely ski wider than the number on the waist.

Thanks @Analisa! I'll take a look online at the Pandoras and Backland. I'm not planning on any overnights or long-term trips (I love the outdoors, but I love my bed and hot shower more). But my fitness isn't totally awesome, as I definitely needed some breaks on the climb, so I don't want to go too heavy. Your Cascade concrete is similar to our Sierra cement, so that's why I'm a little concerned about something like the G3s - have you or any of your crew skied those/that type of ski in your snow?

I took a look online and last year's Trace 98 can be found for just over $500, which is appealing. I know the DPS options are spendy, and I believe the Elans are new construction (?), so likely full price. I don't know anything about the G3s or Icelantic. But I'd also be fine with used or demo skis depending on the condition.

 

[slyfox4]

Thoughts on the list? Other skis I should research that I might not be able to demo?

I am a HUGE fan of Black Crows. My backcountry ski is the Atris which is a 108, so it's a bit wider than what you're looking for. However, it crushes on groomers, and cuts through crud in the spring. If you want a smaller waisted ski you could check out the Camox. Black Crows also has a whole dedicated touring line of skis (Navis, Orb, other ones). I don't know much about that line of skis, but I'd say they are worth looking into!

I have Pandora 95s. They're great for the price point like @Analisa said, but I've found they just are not the best quality ski. They also changed the wood core in the new Pandora 94s and I believe it's a lighter wood. I had the 2017 and now 2018, and BOTH of them are delaminating/top sheet coming up. With that said, I do love them and I was grateful that my first pair was warrantied, but I'm betting I might get another season out of them before I use them as my rock skis ; )

 

[WaterGirl]

@laine I wouldn't focus on "cement' as the key factor for the skis. Its more likely that you will encounter many 'other' types of surfaces - Wind board, sastrugi, breakable crust, ice, soft snow, corn and light powder. If its a cement day, Im not touring. Also who will be your partners? that will dictate your comfort level of where you are going and under what conditions.

I understand its harder to find the shorter skis to demo, but you could also try to demo lighter 'all mountain' skis alpine/on mountain. I have demo'd the black crows free bird camox 2 years ago, looks like it comes in a 160 now. Out of your list I would pick the Ripsticks - but also try in a 94 - thats what use for my set up so I'm partial. The Trace is also a great ski that handles crud etc. You kind of need a jack of all trades ski for the sierras, I would also look at what other sierra divas are using.

 

[laine]

Thanks @WaterGirl. I did just have to google "sastrugi". I don't really have (m)any partners for this. I have some friends who did the Intro and Avy class a few years ago, but they haven't gone back out for a few years, so I wouldn't go alone with them based on their experience. I figure I'll likely sign up for a tour or two at the local shop to start. My husband isn't really interested in backcountry - and I do love the resort skiing - so I need to balance my time.

I joined a FB group for SF Backcountry skiers, but they all seem really advanced, so it's a bit intimidating.

I'd love to try the Ripstick 94s - the shop that demos the 102 also carries the 94, but they don't have any in their demo fleet.

@slyfox4 - I looked online at the Black Crow touring skis, but they're all for taller people. I'd have to investigate one of their all mountain skis. The last time I skied a Line Pandora was at least 6+ years ago and I think it was a 2012 model. So I don't have any recent experience on those, but Squaw does demo the 94 at the mountain, so I can at least see how it feels.

Tahoe Backcountry Ladies - what do you ski and what do you see out there? Recommendations on skis? Or widths?

 

[WaterGirl]

My husband isn't really interested in backcountry -

well.... when you start touring with groups of other men..... he just might be a bit more interested just saying..... says she who's DH now has avy 1, rescue and a split board quiver.....

 

[DeweySki]

Thanks @WaterGirl. I did just have to google "sastrugi". I don't really have (m)any partners for this. I have some friends who did the Intro and Avy class a few years ago, but they haven't gone back out for a few years, so I wouldn't go alone with them based on their experience. I figure I'll likely sign up for a tour or two at the local shop to start. My husband isn't really interested in backcountry - and I do love the resort skiing - so I need to balance my time.

I joined a FB group for SF Backcountry skiers, but they all seem really advanced, so it's a bit intimidating.

I'd love to try the Ripstick 94s - the shop that demos the 102 also carries the 94, but they don't have any in their demo fleet.

@slyfox4 - I looked online at the Black Crow touring skis, but they're all for taller people. I'd have to investigate one of their all mountain skis. The last time I skied a Line Pandora was at least 6+ years ago and I think it was a 2012 model. So I don't have any recent experience on those, but Squaw does demo the 94 at the mountain, so I can at least see how it feels.

Tahoe Backcountry Ladies - what do you ski and what do you see out there? Recommendations on skis? Or widths?

I am only an occasional Tahoe BC skier and mostly in the spring when we can time our tours on a good corn cycle. I'm on DPS Yvettes (112 mm) and just picked up a used pair of Armada Kufos (103 mm), for a smaller waist option, but of course these are not made anymore.

I feel like I see a lot of DPS and Moments out there? I don't see many women on Black Crows. Even though the Atris is my inbounds ski and I LOVE them, when I looked at their touring skis I felt like they all had these huge turning radius' that would not be appropriate for me. I also have the Pandora 95 for inbounds (the year they used a heaver Poplar construction) and would find them too heavy for BC.

I would add a pair of Moment touring skis to your list as well as the Atomic Backlands, both not from personal experience but skis that always make the lists like Blister's 1-ski Quivers and 2-ski Quivers.

 

[laine]

I realized I can rent the new Line Pandora 94 at Squaw (with my alpine boots), so at least I can see how they ski. The Yvette 112 is definitely wider than I want to go, though I will look to demo some DPS skis from Alpenglow. (I just hope I don't like them, since they are so expensive - though they do have a Nina 99 at 40% off, since it's been discontinued.)

The Moments are a little long for me at 162. I am curious about the Atomic Backland 102 - but am not sure if it's too wide, and I haven't found a place to demo it. I do like the Blister reviews - but I feel they always skew wider - like it's the snow they want to ski rather than the snow they actually ski day-to-day. And they're all advanced backcountry skiers. I'm a beginner, so I want to look at something that won't be too tough to manage.

 

[Analisa]

@laine - the only thing I'd keep in mind for DPS is that the Alchemist, Tour1, and Foundation lines will vary a lot on weight (and price). Tour1s are super light (and super pricey), Alchemists fit with other "50/50" weight skis, and the Foundations are 8.5lbs for a 176, so not insane, but most of the people I know who tour in them are taller guys with the aerobic capacity to not care. (Must be nice).

The Backlands are also changing next year to a 98 & 107. It's such a bummer they're hard to find to demo - I imagine the sharp price point moves a lot of units as-is, where the customer doesn't insist as much on demoing first. I was really pleased with the 102 - turned easily in the trees, held composure at speed, but the powder performance really stood out. I skied the 164s and usually gravitate towards something longer & wider, but I didn't have any issues with tip dive and never found myself wishing I had the 172s. And being able to go shorter definitely makes a difference with the weight.

The Pandoras have gotten a bit of a haircut with the carbon layup, but pretty minor (1500g @ 162 for the old 95, 1491 @ 165 for the new) - and overall 30grams heavier than the Backlands. The Pandora 104s come out to be heavier, especially since they ski shorter with the more exaggerated rocker (I liked the 104s in a 172 and felt more between sizes with the 165/172 on the 94).

 

[angelaskis]

Thanks @WaterGirl. I did just have to google "sastrugi". I don't really have (m)any partners for this. I have some friends who did the Intro and Avy class a few years ago, but they haven't gone back out for a few years, so I wouldn't go alone with them based on their experience. I figure I'll likely sign up for a tour or two at the local shop to start. My husband isn't really interested in backcountry - and I do love the resort skiing - so I need to balance my time.

I joined a FB group for SF Backcountry skiers, but they all seem really advanced, so it's a bit intimidating.

I'd love to try the Ripstick 94s - the shop that demos the 102 also carries the 94, but they don't have any in their demo fleet.

Tahoe Backcountry Ladies - what do you ski and what do you see out there? Recommendations on skis? Or widths?

Hi! I'm a Tahoe skier and own the Ripstick 163s with a demo binding. If these are in your length sweet spot and you ski Squaw/Alpine, DM me and I'd be happy to let you take a few runs on them I'll probably be there President's Day or the last weekend in Feb. I'm also curious to try backcountry skiing and would love to hear your experience with the intro tour classes (which shop/how'd it go/good use of time?)

 

[laine]

Hi! I'm a Tahoe skier and own the Ripstick 163s with a demo binding. If these are in your length sweet spot and you ski Squaw/Alpine, DM me and I'd be happy to let you take a few runs on them I'll probably be there President's Day or the last weekend in Feb. I'm also curious to try backcountry skiing and would love to hear your experience with the intro tour classes (which shop/how'd it go/good use of time?)

Wow, @angelaskis - that's so kind! Sending you a DM. I took the Intro class through Alpine Sports International (ASI) which is run out of The Backcountry in Truckee. Because I was the only person in the class, I'm not sure my experience was indicative of a regular class, but I really enjoyed it. Alex was my guide and he was super patient in teaching me the skinning technique, kick turns, and everything else. I definitely thought it was a good use of my time - way better than learning from a friend. I'm planning on taking Avy Level 1 through them later this season.

As for the shop, I did call ahead to make sure they had rental gear in my size - 22.5 boots, skis in the 153-160 range - and they did. I did end up buying boots there afterwards and they had a pretty decent selection in my small size, which is not that common. I got a 10% discount on them for doing the rental/lesson. I'd recommend them.

For the record, I also considered taking the class/renting from Tahoe Mountain Sports (in Truckee in the Safeway shopping center) and Alpenglow in Tahoe City. Both of those shops are reputable, provide rentals, and have partner guiding/intro programs.

 

[laine]

Depends a bit on how far you're taking them. Kingpins, Vipecs, and Dynafit ST/FT 2s (which are becoming the Dynafit Rotation line starting next year) are great places to start. Kingpins have arguably the best downhill performance, Vipecs are the safest (toe prongs work independently and has the highest amount of elastic travel of all tech bindings) but are hell to get in and out of, Dynas are a little lighter & more user friendly to get on and off. None are as safe as an inbound binding, so if you plan on skiing them hard inbounds, I'd consider a frame binding or quiver killers so you can swap out bindings. Maybe the Salomon Shift (but I'm really wary about getting a freshly designed binding right off the bat - many tech bindings have had issues show up in their first release wave that they didn't catch in limited pre-market testing).

If you're going ultra-light, I've heard good things about the Salomon MTN Lab.

@Analisa - this post is two years old - do your thoughts on bindings still stand? Anyone else have thoughts on bindings? (Not buying anything yet, just researching.)

Not interested in the track or Shift bindings - these will be touring-only skis. I was looking at the Dynafit ST Radical and the Rotation 10 as they seem quite popular - but the latter is quite a bit spendier.

Are there other bindings I should look at? I'm not planning on racing - is there a benefit (aside from weight) or a downside (aside from having to buy a brake) in looking at a light & fast binding? Any specific recommendations here?

Also, the demo skis I used in the intro class interestingly had mohair skins. The woman at Alpenglow (touring-focused shop in Tahoe) said that most people use the BD Ascension. How do you select? Any specific recommendations here?

 

[Analisa]

@Analisa - this post is two years old - do your thoughts on bindings still stand? Anyone else have thoughts on bindings? (Not buying anything yet, just researching.)

Not interested in the track or Shift bindings - these will be touring-only skis. I was looking at the Dynafit ST Radical and the Rotation 10 as they seem quite popular - but the latter is quite a bit spendier.

Are there other bindings I should look at? I'm not planning on racing - is there a benefit (aside from weight) or a downside (aside from having to buy a brake) in looking at a light & fast binding? Any specific recommendations here?

Also, the demo skis I used in the intro class interestingly had mohair skins. The woman at Alpenglow (touring-focused shop in Tahoe) said that most people use the BD Ascension. How do you select? Any specific recommendations here?

Compatibility is going to be the biggest concern with the Hoji boot - it doesn't have the lip in the toe/heel to pair with a Shift, Tecton, or Kingpin (any of the ones with an alpine style heel).

I have to put in a big endorsement of Dynafit's 10 year return policy. I sheared a spring in my heelpiece last spring and even though the warranty was 2 years when I purchased (and the break happened 3-4 years and 200+ ski days later), they sent me a new heel tower. I thought I was going to have to get all new bindings, but with a garage repair job, it ended up being free.

In terms of the benefits of weight, elastic travel is the biggest benefit (or the micromovements your foot can make and not pre-release). It's about the distance your foot moves vs. the DIN is the force. Many people get bindings with low elastic travel, pop out often, and crank their DIN. In those cases, if they fall, they need to wipe out hard to release. An awkward low-speed fall requires a lower DIN to release. For example, the Shift has 47mm in the toe/9 in the heel, the Rotation has 10mm in the heel, and several lighter bindings have basically 0 elastic travel.