What's so "bad" about system bindings?

[Jilly]

I mentioned that system bindings incorporate the plate. The plate is to move the boot up higher so when the skis are on edge your boot doesn't end up touching the snow. FIS has a limit on how high you can make "risers". This is used on all narrow skis somehow. Either through a plate/riser or the system binding. Last pair of "flat" skis I had (Rossi Vipers) I put the riser plates on. "Boot out" didn't happen after that.

All my present skis have a system bindings, so no plates.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Rossi Vipers, Jilly, remember them well - last ski my son ever rented (at Tahoe years ago, he was dark side exclusively by then). He rocked ‘em, too, like he’d never been off skis : ) Good ski.

However, I did have risers on K2 Fours, with Markers, and the weight was EXCRUCIATING. And I don’t think I EVER came close to boot-out anyway, probably wouldn't have w/o riser. This is more of a narrow-waist race ski thing now, where it once extended to recreational as well.

On the subject of “what if you’re on expert ski...” etc: Well, who’s defining expert here?
Basically, IMO, it boils down to these ski traits:
1. Ski is inherently stiffer. This might be a problem for anyone lighter in weight or without the skills to bend them.
2. Ski performs better at speed. Which might translate to them being a bit more sluggish at lower speeds.
3. Smaller “sweet spot.” Easier to get pitched into the back seat.
5. Livelier (but not always). Rebound sometimes is unexpected, as the skier doesn’t have the pressure control skills yet.

What I’ve seen: Even if good, advancing intermediates, if the ski is too stiff and prefers higher speeds, intermediates will tend to get thrown about a bit (if not more) in irregular terrain or bumps. If the ski wants to go faster, it might invite the skier to really crank it up, but without the proper skills and technique, which could invite some bad habits. I’ve seen skis get ahead of skiers, leading to back-seat emergency recovery tactics (heck, it happens to us all). But when or if this is happening - any of this - on a regular basis, it’s time to re-evaluate the appropriateness of the ski choice.

ETA: Deannat, I've seen skis listed side by side on merchant websites as system and flat (K2 for one), there is and always has been a price difference.

 

[maggie198]

It's funny, when they came out with the system binding set-up it was the next best thing to sliced bread! A few years later and the tune changes to something else. There are so many "gimmicks" (for lack of a better word right now) that come out in skiing technology, some good, some not so good. By the time I bought my skis with a Solomon system binding two years ago, negative comments were being expressed. So I was unsure about them. But the bindings are fine, in fact I really like them. No issues except maybe a little heavier. Now I'm back to a flat ski w/binding and I like that fine too. And I'm like the princess and the pea - I notice any little changes and something small can REALLY bother me! But I do think that a major problem with system bindings is that the buyer can't use their preferred binding choice, thus limiting the sales of the skis.

 

[beckylh84]

I was chatting with Contesstant in another thread and she can't ski her Lotta Luvs without excruciating quad pain due to the system binding ramp angle.

I had similar issues with my Lotta Luv's. I'll be happy to not be skiing on them last year. They were a great first pair of skis to own, but after skiing the Kenjas, I can't go back.

 

[Christy]

I saw my bootfitter today to get rid of my toe bang, and he's focusing on making sure I'm totally balanced in my boots so my foot doesn't move (and thus bang my longest toe). And he was very unhappy with the binding ramp angle on the Lottas. Not that it's inheirantly bad, but that as a system binding we can't adjust it. He suggested if I continue to have problems with my boots that I get rid of the Lottas. But I LOOOOOVE them! So we'll see.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

It's funny, when they came out with the system binding set-up it was the next best thing to sliced bread! A few years later and the tune changes to something else. There are so many "gimmicks" (for lack of a better word right now) that come out in skiing technology, some good, some not so good.

Another trend that was way widespread and has likely seen its day in terms of popularity, for all the reasons mentioned above (ramp angle being high up on the list?). I don't think it will disappear altogether but will be relegated to more beginner/intermediate ski status, as that clientele is more likely to want a ski without having to make an additional decision and choice. Or spend additional $ for mounting.

 

[contesstant]

When I was struggling with trying to get balanced in my boots/on my skis, the fact that I had system bindings with a defined ramp angle that couldn't be changed was a real thorn in my side. I talked to my bootfitter and ski shop about this and they both just shook their heads and said, tell ski manufacturers to stop only making skis with system bindings (a few years ago I had virtually no choices for flat frontside skis--everything was system. This seems to be changing). I was chatting with Contesstant in another thread and she can't ski her Lotta Luvs without excruciating quad pain due to the system binding ramp angle.

Yes, I never really thought that it could be the binding angle, but I think it had to contribute to it.

 

[contesstant]

I had similar issues with my Lotta Luv's. I'll be happy to not be skiing on them last year. They were a great first pair of skis to own, but after skiing the Kenjas, I can't go back.

Interesting. I now wonder if it really WAS the bindings and not the skis? I am the same way with my Black Pearls--I'll never go back to the Lotta's even though they're practically brand new, even as rock skis. They just wear me out! I could never understand how the true weekend warrior types (quite overweight, out of shape, etc.) could ski all day and not have quad fatigue, whereas I am fairly fit and exercise regularly, and I'd have major quad fatigue after a few runs and would have to quit early! It was truly depressing and I thought I'd never become a very good skier. I can now ski all day with the Pearls

 

[Christy]

I could never understand how the true weekend warrior types (quite overweight, out of shape, etc.) could ski all day and not have quad fatigue, whereas I am fairly fit and exercise regularly, and I'd have major quad fatigue after a few runs and would have to quit early! It was truly depressing and I thought I'd never become a very good skier.

Ugh, that was me for 2 years in my Nordica boots that had too much forward lean. I was playing around with heel lifts recently and put too much in and had the same thing happen--awful quad pain. I took them out as soon as I could but as I'm sure you know, once you fry your quads, you're kind of screwed for the day and maybe even the next day.

 

[vanhoskier]

I don't think system bindings will ever disappear from carving skis, since like Jilly said, there needs to be a bit of a rise under the binding to prevent the boot from hitting the snow on high edge angles. They are a little heavier but I never notice the difference while skiing. It's not a matter of high-end vs. low-end skis.....the highest-performing carving skis always have system bindings. In fact, I've never seen a true front-sider without them.