Question: What is it like to live in Utah?

[iisemily]

Hi all,
I will be moving in a year or two and I am considering various places. Both my husband and I are avid skiers, and would love to live within easy driving distance (< 2hrs) to one or more ski hills. I have lived in the south east (southern VA and NC). While both of these places have many positive aspects, the omnipresent conservative and very religious attitudes just weren't a good fit with my family. I have also lived near DC, and while the diverse mix of people and culture was great, we are not big city people. We prefer more trees and less people. Living in MT is great. There is skiing and a lot of outdoor-sy stuff to do. Very little light pollution. Missoula itself is a small city and fairly liberal. The rest of MT is primarily conservative or libertarian, but as spread out as we are, (literally more cows than people) most are willing to live and let live. So, I guess I am wondering, while UT is a fabulous place to visit and I am sure a great place for a lot of people to live, is it a good fit for my family? I am curious if UT is more like MT or NC? Or perhaps completely unique? I am also wondering if particular regions within UT are drastically different in terms of culture?

Note: I am not trying to offend anyone or make statements about one set of ideas or places being "better" than any others. I firmly believe everyone has a right to their own ideas and beliefs. I am just trying to pool people's general impressions and try to find out what would be good for me. I hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes and apologize if I have.

 

[geargrrl]

Jeez, why would you leave Montana?

Now, I don't live in UT but I have a lot of friends who do and one of my best friends here grew up in SLC and she is not Mormon. My understanding is that the culture is two tiered. The Mormons, and every one else. It's very conservative with Mormonism dominating the culture. However, there are pockets of otherness, in terms of less conservative, the outdoors community, and so on. Simple things like really odd and (to me) archaic liquor laws will make it seem very different.

If you are looking for more skiing look no farther than Spokane. We have 5 ski areas withing 70 miles, and then British Columbia Powder Triangle areas are just across the border, starting with Red Mountain at 90 miles from my front door. Spokane is more of a big town like Missoula than a big city... but I don't know what you are looking for, employment, kids or otherwise. We moved here specifically for outdoors activities in a smaller but sort of metro community.

 

[skimamma]

From what I have heard, Mormon or not Mormon, UT tends to be a pretty conservative state. It doesn't sound like that is what you are looking for. And, watch out for "mud season". However, the snow is amazing!!!

We recently semi-relocated from the Mid West to Oregon. We are staying in Sandy. Which is about 1/2 hour from Portland and 30-45 minutes from many areas on Mt. Hood. The snow is a little heavier than what I am used to here. However, the season is much longer and the terrain is beautiful. If you are interested in nature outside of skiing, the Pacific North West is incredible. Waterfalls, hiking, fishing in the rivers & gorge, not too far from the coast, etc. Yet, you have the ability to head to the city for cultural activities. So far, the "rain" has not been an issue. I think it is just a myth that it rains all of the time here. Or, maybe it is just a dry year. (My strange complaint about Oregon is the phosphorous free dish detergent....I can't tell you how many dishes come out of the dishwasher dirty!! I am planning smuggling some phosphorous Cascade into the state...for personal use only...I probably won't...but, I think about it.)

The areas near Portland, OR are very liberal. From what I have heard, if you go East of the Cascades, it becomes more conservative.

So far, I would highly recommend the Pacific North West, if you have a career path that could bring you here.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[K9hndler98]

We're thinking about (we're hoping the military cooperates) and sends us to Spokane or MT. I'm happy to hear the ski areas are close. My daughter lives in Cheney so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we'll be there in about 18 mos.

 

[2ski2moro]

(My strange complaint about Oregon is the phosphorous free dish detergent....I can't tell you how many dishes come out of the dishwasher dirty!! I am planning smuggling some phosphorous Cascade into the state...for personal use only...I probably won't...but, I think about it.)

First, ON the topic, I agree with Geargrrl and Skimamma about Utah being ultra conservative. I would like to add that if you are going to be working in Utah, it will be difficult to get a job without the Church connections. Not impossible, just more difficult.

Still, I love Utah.

As for the phosphates in the dishwasher detergent and even your laundry detergent...just add some TSP - Tri Sodium Phosphate. Not the "phosphate-free" TSP, but the real stuff. You can buy a box of the powder online. I bought 5 boxes when I was driving through Pennsylvania. Add some to your washer load or dishwasher load.

And a note to all of you who are appalled at the use of phosphates, just remember that the commercial products (restaurant-grade dishwasher soap and hotel/hospital laundry products) used in NON-phosphate states still contain phosphates. Only phosphates for private use were banned.

 

[contesstant]

Following this with interest since we are also trying to get the military to finally send us to Ogden. I never thought about me having issues finding a job because I'm not "connected." Other Air Force friends who have lived there loved it, FWIW. But Utah definitely IS a very conservative state, yet different than the southern conservative states.

My biggest concern is regarding the poor air quality there. I've had enough of that living in L.A.

 

[Sheena]

I moved to Utah from Washington, DC 4 1/2 years ago. Utah is very conservative, and there are times when it seems like the predominant religion does permeate all things. (Like when church leaders meet with the state to discuss changes to liquor laws)

The great things about living in UT is the CLOSE easy access to fantastic outdoor activities.

As for jobs, neither my husband or I have had problems getting interviews or jobs, and not only are we not LDS but we are also outsiders in small town.

There is a liberal community in Utah, and DH and I have not had trouble finding it.

So yeah, while Utah is conservative, and sometimes the politics can make you go huh, I think Utah is a great place to live.

 

[abc]

I can['t help with the specifics. But my friend moved from NJ to Park City. They like it fine. What's amzing is their parents like it so much, both sets of parents moved there! (one from NJ just outside of NYC and the other from SF Bay area of California. So you can imagine the liberal streak)

 

[contesstant]

I moved to Utah from Washington, DC 4 1/2 years ago. Utah is very conservative, and there are times when it seems like the predominant religion does permeate all things. (Like when church leaders meet with the state to discuss changes to liquor laws)

The great things about living in UT is the CLOSE easy access to fantastic outdoor activities.

As for jobs, neither my husband or I have had problems getting interviews or jobs, and not only are we not LDS but we are also outsiders in small town.

There is a liberal community in Utah, and DH and I have not had trouble finding it.

So yeah, while Utah is conservative, and sometimes the politics can make you go huh, I think Utah is a great place to live.

This is exactly what I wanted to hear! We are pretty much independent and don't judge, but don't want to be judged.

Any thoughts on the air quality?

 

[geargrrl]

From what I have heard, Mormon or not Mormon, UT tends to be a pretty conservative state. It doesn't sound like that is what you are looking for. And, watch out for "mud season". However, the snow is amazing!!!

We recently semi-relocated from the Mid West to Oregon. We are staying in Sandy. Which is about 1/2 hour from Portland and 30-45 minutes from many areas on Mt. Hood. The snow is a little heavier than what I am used to here. However, the season is much longer and the terrain is beautiful. If you are interested in nature outside of skiing, the Pacific North West is incredible. Waterfalls, hiking, fishing in the rivers & gorge, not too far from the coast, etc. Yet, you have the ability to head to the city for cultural activities. So far, the "rain" has not been an issue. I think it is just a myth that it rains all of the time here. Or, maybe it is just a dry year. (My strange complaint about Oregon is the phosphorous free dish detergent....I can't tell you how many dishes come out of the dishwasher dirty!! I am planning smuggling some phosphorous Cascade into the state...for personal use only...I probably won't...but, I think about it.)

Phorphorous ban here also. DH is a clean water engineer so we had real issues with the smuggling thing tho I did it for a while, from Idaho.
I finally figured out how to get CLEAN dishes. I did a lot of web research and yay finally now have sparkling dishes.

1. clean the dishwasher with a citric acid cleaner. You can get it at Ace hardware.
2. Use a rinse aid.
3. reduce the amount of soap you are suing by 1/2, no prewash, and use a good quality soap. I have a list somewhere of what was recommended but I just use Cascade and it's fine. I'll dig it up for you if needed.
I did take all my glasses and wash them with vinegar when I started this process. I got them clean, started doing the above ( rinse aid etc) and yay no more filmy dishes. I haven't even done the citric acid thing again.

so to sum, use a rinse aid, 1/2 the amount of soap, and maybe some of the new "power tab" type products and you should see a major improvement

The areas near Portland, OR are very liberal. From what I have heard, if you go East of the Cascades, it becomes more conservative.

So far, I would highly recommend the Pacific North West, if you have a career path that could bring you here.

Good luck with your decision!

There's definitely a divide between East and West in Washington, but we aren't nearly as behind the times or conservative as 20 years ago when I first moved here.

SLC is pretty infamous for winter inversions. I think that's a pretty hard item to escape anywhere where it gets a real winter.

As for the PNW west side "rain" thing - it's more greyness, drizzle and heavy mist, and not real "rain" all the time like you get in a NorCal winter.

 

[geargrrl]

Following this with interest since we are also trying to get the military to finally send us to Ogden. I never thought about me having issues finding a job because I'm not "connected." Other Air Force friends who have lived there loved it, FWIW. But Utah definitely IS a very conservative state, yet different than the southern conservative states.

My biggest concern is regarding the poor air quality there. I've had enough of that living in L.A.

Have your explored Fairchild AFB? It's right outside of Spokane in Airway Heights. From what I understand it's very desirable base. Partially is because of the good relationship between the base and community: we don't treat military like outsiders here. DH and I are involved in a community/business liaison program.

 

[Christy]

I have a hard time imagining that you're going to find anywhere more progressive in Utah than Missoula is. And the state as a whole will be more conservative--just compare the political representation in both states, and read up on how Salt Lake City was just carved up into new congressional districts to favor more conservative elements. I think if you want to stay in a Rocky Mt state but want a more progressive place, Colorado might be your best bet. It's purple at least and there are some very progressive towns (ie Boulder).

Otherwise, if you want a true blue progressive place, I think you're looking at the West Coast. If you like Missoula you might like Bellingham. It's a college town and a very outdoorsy place--Mt Baker (world record snowfall!) is less than an hour away, Whistler is day trip distance (the ski areas close to Vancouver are even closer), Sun Peaks and Crystal Mt are easy weekends...The hiking in the North Cascades is amazing and if you like sea kayaking, you'll be in heaven. Cost of living is low for a West Coast town. Vancouver BC and Seattle are close enough if you do want a dose of big city. And it will suit your values and politics just fine.

 

[altagirl]

SLC is pretty infamous for winter inversions. I think that's a pretty hard item to escape anywhere where it gets a real winter.

On the bright side, when the inversion is horrid (and it gets that way frequently), you can just drive up in the mountains and get out of it.

Of course, then you get to feel guilty that you're helping contribute to it by driving around...

But yes, the inversion can be brutal. They recommend only exercising indoors when it's bad, but even indoors, you can feel it in your lungs. It's not good. I got sick this winter and hardly ever get sick - this was the first time in years. But it was right at the end of weeks of bad air quality and started with lots of sneezing and whatnot, and I'm pretty sure that's one of the main things that caused it.

And other than that, I don't know how to generalize Utah. There are more and less conservative areas - heck - Salt Lake, Summit and Grand counties all went to Obama in the last election. And there are areas where you might actually be the only one who isn't a memeber of the Church. I wouldn't recommend moving to Provo, personally, unless you are a member or want to be one. But in Sugarhouse, I'd say the overwhelming majority is liberal. If you're in groups of people who moved here for the outdoor recreation opportunities, religion will likely never come up at all. If you're sitting around watching local news... yeah, it's a little weird to see headlines about what some LDS church leader said today. Do people really watch local news a lot in other places nowadays though? I mean, when I want news, I go online. Though maybe that's just an adaptation. I don't even know.

And for all the drama that goes on about liquor laws, most of them are just a hassle at worst, and often just don't make any sense. Yes, it would be nice if they'd issue more liquor licenses, but you're not going to have a hard time finding someplace to go get a drink.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I don't live in Utah, so take this with a grain of salt - but others have posted who don't live in Utah, so I guess I'll just add my two cents.

My aunt has lived in Utah - mostly Park City, also Logan - off and on for years. She is not Mormon. She is distinctly liberal. Her friends are distinctly liberal. Park City is more liberal than many areas, but also prohibitively expensive housing for most. In both Park City and Logan, you certainly find alcohol and cool people. SLC too (hi AG!). I love visiting, but I do think some of the family-centric TV programming and certainly the politics would grate on me. As an adult, I think you have plenty of opportunities to find a good crowd.

What I'm not sure of is how kids experience Utah. My cousin lived in SLC as a child. This was maybe 20 years ago, so times may have changed considerably, but I know there was friction between my aunt and the other parents, and some parents wouldn't let their kids play with my cousin and said nasty things because of his religion (Catholic). I would hope things are more open now.

If you're looking for a small town atmosphere, less smog, and nearby skiing, I actually might pitch Logan. It's in a canyon, it's small, it's beautiful, and there's a small but fun ski hill - Beaver - about an hour away. SLC is an hour away, maybe more in the winter, so you could still get you city fix or head to the larger ski areas when you wanted to.

 

[altagirl]

I don't live in Utah, so take this with a grain of salt - but others have posted who don't live in Utah, so I guess I'll just add my two cents.

My aunt has lived in Utah - mostly Park City, also Logan - off and on for years. She is not Mormon. She is distinctly liberal. Her friends are distinctly liberal. Park City is more liberal than many areas, but also prohibitively expensive housing for most. In both Park City and Logan, you certainly find alcohol and cool people. SLC too (hi AG!). I love visiting, but I do think some of the family-centric TV programming and certainly the politics would grate on me. As an adult, I think you have plenty of opportunities to find a good crowd.

What I'm not sure of is how kids experience Utah. My cousin lived in SLC as a child. This was maybe 20 years ago, so times may have changed considerably, but I know there was friction between my aunt and the other parents, and some parents wouldn't let their kids play with my cousin and said nasty things because of his religion (Catholic). I would hope things are more open now.

If you're looking for a small town atmosphere, less smog, and nearby skiing, I actually might pitch Logan. It's in a canyon, it's small, it's beautiful, and there's a small but fun ski hill - Beaver - about an hour away. SLC is an hour away, maybe more in the winter, so you could still get you city fix or head to the larger ski areas when you wanted to.

I know it seems counter-intuitive, but Logan gets WAY WORSE air pollution issues than we do in SLC. Cache County is rural (and beautiful), but the air quality is regularly the absolute worst in the nation. It just has to do with air flow patterns or something.


And while I only visit Logan (I've been there a bunch for work), I think that area is a lot more conservative than SLC is. Just my personal opinion - obviously there are lots of groups, neighborhoods and types of people in each area.

And I can't really say anything about raising children here. I know plenty of people who are - some go to private schools to avoid the church influence, etc. but most are too young to be in school yet. But I don't intend to have children so it's not something I pay enough attention to to really give you a good opinion on.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I know it seems counter-intuitive, but Logan gets WAY WORSE air pollution issues than we do in SLC. Cache County is rural (and beautiful), but the air quality is regularly the absolute worst in the nation. It just has to do with air flow patterns or something.


And while I only visit Logan (I've been there a bunch for work), I think that area is a lot more conservative than SLC is. Just my personal opinion - obviously there are lots of groups, neighborhoods and types of people in each area.

And I can't really say anything about raising children here. I know plenty of people who are - some go to private schools to avoid the church influence, etc. but most are too young to be in school yet. But I don't intend to have children so it's not something I pay enough attention to to really give you a good opinion on.

Thanks for the input! I guess I've only visited Logan in the fall, come to think of it. Once in the winter, but that was years ago (when I last skied Beaver). Bummer to read about the air quality - it's such a cute little town.

 

[VickiK]

I didn't realize that air quality was an issue in Utah urban areas.

Impressions:
- Utah has some big-name employers and is active about courting others. I'd guess that the resulting employee base adds a lot of diversity.
- Alcohol laws are complicated and obsolete, but not prohibitive.

I think SLC was listed among the best places to live in last year's Sunset magazine, especially for entrepreneurs.

Just my 2 cents. All the other places in this discussion sound nice too.

 

[altagirl]

I didn't realize that air quality was an issue in Utah urban areas.

Impressions:
- Utah has some big-name employers and is active about courting others. I'd guess that the resulting employee base adds a lot of diversity.
- Alcohol laws are complicated and obsolete, but not prohibitive.

I think SLC was listed among the best places to live in last year's Sunset magazine, especially for entrepreneurs.

Just my 2 cents. All the other places in this discussion sound nice too.

I'd agree with that. I tend to laugh about some of the "you can't get a job unless you're Mormon" things that you hear. I mean, sure, anywhere on earth, it's going to be easier to get a job if you know people, so there's a plus to moving somewhere that you already have a network. But I mean, Ebay for example has a huge campus and is hiring some huge number of thousands of new employees. Think Ebay cares if you're LDS? I don't...

 

[Christy]

Phorphorous ban here also.

I didn't even know we had this. I put detergent in and the dishes come out clean. Clean enough for me, anyway. Maybe it's the power of the pre-wash dog tongue. (Did I just ensure no one is ever going to dine at my house?)

 

[contesstant]

Have your explored Fairchild AFB? It's right outside of Spokane in Airway Heights. From what I understand it's very desirable base. Partially is because of the good relationship between the base and community: we don't treat military like outsiders here. DH and I are involved in a community/business liaison program.

LOVE Spokane, in fact my brother was the commander of the survival school at Fairchild for two years so we skied 49 North and Schweitzer when he was there! However, there are no jobs in my husband's career field at Fairchild :( And my mom lives there, which would be a bonus.

The inversion in Utah is going to be a major issue for me :( This bums me out. I essentially developed chronic bronchitis when living in the L.A. Basin in 1989-1990. The air is far improved here now, but still disgusting as far as I'm concerned. And we live right on the coast where the air is far better.

I'll keep pushing for CO Springs instead. There are jobs for him there :D