What is good or bad in a ski lesson?

[SnowHot]

will be a certain amount of chemistry

Chemistry is a good word. I have had sitauations where I just didn't "feel it" with an instructor. Nothing wrong with the instructor, just not feeling it.

That could be me, my mood, or just a people to people thing.

Also, I hope no one here thinks I was talking specifically about them(or you) when talking about being stewards to the novice. It was a general comment.

I know that we try to be careful about our conversations on the chairlift if we are on with strangers. Again... you have no idea who may overhear something and just what kind of impact it could have.

 

[Skier31]

I've had the good fortune of getting into some really good lessons. @Skier31 and I have similar experiences and in fact, I'd take a lesson from her in a heartbeat.

I don't get too annoyed by an instructor as long as he/she can communicate like I like to learn.
One of my first lessons ever, I recall spending some time with the instructor talking to us at the beginning which I didn't understand at the time but he was simply getting an idea how we all learn. Someone may learn by feel, some need a demonstration and some (me) need to learn in layers, creating buidling blocks to get the end result.

The only times I got really annoyed in a lesson was when a clinic leader kept telling me to do something over and over and I wasn't getting it. Other students were, but not me.
He eventually said, "Trek! I keep telling you what to do and you're not doing it."
I replied, "Right? I'm not getting it and you keep telling me the same thing. Find a different way to tell me!"
Two days later I took a lesson from someone else and explained the situation. This new instructor had me doing it within two runs, mainly because he gave me the building blocks to make the move and then I felt it. After that I could go off feeling but I needed the mechanics to get there.

I guess I like an instructor who has the ability to teach each student in a manner that works for that student.

FWIW, I tried to be an instructor but after a rough winter making the attempt I realized its not my jam. Total respect for those who have the patience and skills to instruct.

We need to ski together!

 

[SnowHot]

We need to ski together!

We do!!!
I truly enjoy you and wonder how it is that we have such a good relationship and yet, if we have skied togther it's been limited.
And bonus... I love snowmass!

 

[tahoeaussie]

I just participated in a 3 hour instructor training clinic yesterday. The topic was on using teaching and people skills in your lessons.
for me it was one of the worst clinics I’ve been on.

we got this handout that had soooo many words on it, my brain shut off. The trainer spoke so long that a lot of us, when we finally skied were unsure of where to stop next, and often what the actual task was.

I’m not much of a thinker learner at all. Like keep it simple and keep moving. I also learned this year at 55 I have adhd especially the hyperactive one. this means I don’t like standing around for too long.

something else i noticed was that after the long winded info, the key point of where to meet and what the focus was were lost as he had said them early in the verbiage.

I gotta say, it was one of my most frustrating experiences ever in a clinic.

the Topic was people skills. My knowledge is that we all have different learning styles, as instructors we tend to lean towar our learning bias.

a good instructor will find out how you learn and tailor the lesson to that.

i started asking the groups I taught last season what that was, and often the verbal instruction was not what most wanted, this way, I knew how best to communicate to the group and everyones needs gets met.

I use the terms, feel free to use these if you are getting a lesson so the instructor can communicate effectively for you.
watcher -show me
doer- let me try
thinker- explain it more
feeler- what should I feel as I move.

we are all a combination of these. I’m someone who is mostly a feeler and a doer.



I am not a learner who likes long

 

[skinnyfootskis]

I use video in most of my lessons.

I email participants a summary of the lesson afterward.

I also use “following”. It is important to turn off the brain and just do at times. It has to be part of the lesson, not the whole thing.

I can’t follow anyone…trying to figure out why….

 

[tahoeaussie]

I can’t follow anyone…trying to figure out why….

Some people love it and some don’t.

id say it’s how you learn and process and that maybe that one isn’t for you.

do you know what helps you figure stuff out easiest?

 

[HuntersEmma57]

I just participated in a 3 hour instructor training clinic yesterday. The topic was on using teaching and people skills in your lessons.
for me it was one of the worst clinics I’ve been on.

we got this handout that had soooo many words on it, my brain shut off. The trainer spoke so long that a lot of us, when we finally skied were unsure of where to stop next, and often what the actual task was.

I’m not much of a thinker learner at all. Like keep it simple and keep moving. I also learned this year at 55 I have adhd especially the hyperactive one. this means I don’t like standing around for too long.

something else i noticed was that after the long winded info, the key point of where to meet and what the focus was were lost as he had said them early in the verbiage.

I gotta say, it was one of my most frustrating experiences ever in a clinic.

the Topic was people skills. My knowledge is that we all have different learning styles, as instructors we tend to lean towar our learning bias.

a good instructor will find out how you learn and tailor the lesson to that.

i started asking the groups I taught last season what that was, and often the verbal instruction was not what most wanted, this way, I knew how best to communicate to the group and everyones needs gets met.

I use the terms, feel free to use these if you are getting a lesson so the instructor can communicate effectively for you.
watcher -show me
doer- let me try
thinker- explain it more
feeler- what should I feel as I move.

we are all a combination of these. I’m someone who is mostly a feeler and a doer.



I am not a learner who likes long

Oooof. That sounds pretty icky. Sounds like a very bad instructor fit. Not meaning disrespect, but there are a lot of PSIA elitists out there that can wring the fun out of any experience. The one thing I learned pretty early as a recreational skier is that I can bug out at anytime. I refuse to be hostage to a poor lesson or group.

I'm a feeler and doer most of the time. Sometimes I need explanations. I can't watch and learn.

Every day long-clinic or groups lesson or week long clinic I've ever attended was waaaaaaay toooooooo muuuuuucchhhh tttttaaaaalllkkkiiiiiinng and was followed by standing around on the hill talking more. And never nearly enough doing. For gosh sakes, where you have 5 instructors standing around in a clinic, break us into groups.

I only made it past lunch once out of 3 day-long private lessons and that one was life-changing. I have abandoned every week-long clinic or serial weekends type clinic after only a few days.

I try, but I just can't. I'm not rude or disruptive. In fact, I never even accepted offers for refunds. I know much of it is my impatience and need to keep moving. I have consistently inquired about the format and how much time is spent not just on the snow, but actually skiing, and assurance were given that did not pan out.

I have not been diagnosed ADHD, but I do not like standing around watching each single skier go down one at a time. And then talking about it.

In all honesty, I now avoid group skis of any kind - except with just 2 other couples and one single guy. My husband and I are super tight - we can read each other without a word spoken. I'm so used to our pacing and decision-making style. And I trust any line he drops. I get a lot of confidence skiing with him. And we were very well matched in all aspect of skiing including when we need breaks, where we want to ski, and for how long. So I already won the lottery on that. :-) Good luck!

 

[tahoeaussie]

Oooof. That sounds pretty icky. Sounds like a very bad instructor fit. Not meaning disrespect, but there are a lot of PSIA elitists out there that can wring the fun out of any experience. The one thing I learned pretty early as a recreational skier is that I can bug out at anytime. I refuse to be hostage to a poor lesson or group.

I'm a feeler and doer most of the time. Sometimes I need explanations. I can't watch and learn.

Every day long-clinic or groups lesson or week long clinic I've ever attended was waaaaaaay toooooooo muuuuuucchhhh tttttaaaaalllkkkiiiiiinng and was followed by standing around on the hill talking more. And never nearly enough doing. For gosh sakes, where you have 5 instructors standing around in a clinic, break us into groups.

I only made it past lunch once out of 3 day-long private lessons and that one was life-changing. I have abandoned every week-long clinic or serial weekends type clinic after only a few days.

I try, but I just can't. I'm not rude or disruptive. In fact, I never even accepted offers for refunds. I know much of it is my impatience and need to keep moving. I have consistently inquired about the format and how much time is spent not just on the snow, but actually skiing, and assurance were given that did not pan out.

I have not been diagnosed ADHD, but I do not like standing around watching each single skier go down one at a time. And then talking about it.

In all honesty, I now avoid group skis of any kind - except with just 2 other couples and one single guy. My husband and I are super tight - we can read each other without a word spoken. I'm so used to our pacing and decision-making style. And I trust any line he drops. I get a lot of confidence skiing with him. And we were very well matched in all aspect of skiing including when we need breaks, where we want to ski, and for how long. So I already won the lottery on that. :-) Good luck!

Funny thing is they are always about talking less and then talk a lot

 

[snoWYmonkey]

Funny thing is they are always about talking less and then talk a lot

Of all the skiers out there, I think we instructors have the hardest time focusing. I suspect that is why we do what we do. Most of us can benefit from understanding some of the tech, but I too have been contacted by PSIA after a clinic where we stood so much and so long that one colleague took her skis off as the pain was building. Mid run, mid talk!
Depending on the topic, some instructor clinics inevitably need some tech talk, amd some guests love it.
Just listening to my students I can often tell what matters in their learning approach. Skiing is even more important for the tech nerds like me... all talk no practice makes for a full brain and clueless body.

 

[skinnyfootskis]

Some people love it and some don’t.

id say it’s how you learn and process and that maybe that one isn’t for you.

do you know what helps you figure stuff out easiest?

Mostly watching, then telling me how to do it (or why), then trying and receiving correction. ie: pressure on big toe..little toe...then skiing that way. (I guess?)

 

[HuntersEmma57]

Of all the skiers out there, I think we instructors have the hardest time focusing. I suspect that is why we do what we do. Most of us can benefit from understanding some of the tech, but I too have been contacted by PSIA after a clinic where we stood so much and so long that one colleague took her skis off as the pain was building. Mid run, mid talk!
Depending on the topic, some instructor clinics inevitably need some tech talk, amd some guests love it.
Just listening to my students I can often tell what matters in their learning approach. Skiing is even more important for the tech nerds like me... all talk no practice makes for a full brain and clueless body.

Yup.
Not that I golf, but according to my golfer spouse, skiing and golf are alike in that as you advance in your skills, it's often miniscule tweaks (in the mental game and/or form) that can generate breakthroughs. Gear plays an increasingly big role as a skier advances and spends more and more time on the mountain - especially because the risks (and rewards) go way up.

So while I love LOVE to talk gear, it's not endlessly and not particularly welcome during a time-limited lesson. Gear needs and preferences are so individual and personal that a classroom discussion is often not very helpful.
What I'd prefer is when an instructor sees a student who's clearly struggling largely because of their gear, is for them to take that off as a sidebar.
Tick tock. There's only so much time and all needs and goals can't possibly be satisfied. It sounds to me like instructors are being told to be all and do all for everyone and that can just gum up the works.
I don't envy you managing all those expectations. But I do appreciate the efforts and time invested in improving your craft.

 

[KathrynC]

I use the terms, feel free to use these if you are getting a lesson so the instructor can communicate effectively for you.
watcher -show me
doer- let me try
thinker- explain it more
feeler- what should I feel as I move.

we are all a combination of these. I’m someone who is mostly a feeler and a doer.

I've found this whole thread interesting because I am very detail oriented and I always need to know why - in the parlance above, I am very much a thinker. Given the number of other people saying "don't give me lots of detail, keep it simple and get on with it", I appear to be in the minority!

Of course, if I'm paying for a ski lesson I do want to ski, so what I really like in a ski instructor is someone who can make me do and feel while still satisfying my need for detail.

In group contexts, my need for detail can cause problems because often the rest of the group want to move on while I am still asking questions. I try not to do this too much because I do realise that it can be disruptive. I really appreciate instructors who take the time to accommodate questions, perhaps by answering questions in lift lines or by taking 5 mins when the session is finished.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

@KathrynC. It appears that you have already figured out a little bit how to get what you need even if it differs from what others want in a group setting. If I have people in my lessons that need or want more specifics and I can tell that the group is getting antsy to keep moving and skiing, I usually interrupt and tell them that will ride the lift up together so that I can answer their questions more in depth and then I will usually do a brief synopsis while showing the movements at the top of the chair for everyone's benefit. You can also ask the instructor or coach if they are open to continuing the conversation via email or a phone call. I sometimes review a little bit after the fact up two weeks later with some of my students. Though I would definitely make sure that it's okay with the instructor as many of us have a lot going on once we leave work. Just like you, I like to understand how things work and that can sometimes be totally separate from how I'm coached with just one word to get me to change something in my own skiing.

 

[KathrynC]

@KathrynC. It appears that you have already figured out a little bit how to get what you need even if it differs from what others want in a group setting. If I have people in my lessons that need or want more specifics and I can tell that the group is getting antsy to keep moving and skiing, I usually interrupt and tell them that will ride the lift up together so that I can answer their questions more in depth and then I will usually do a brief synopsis while showing the movements at the top of the chair for everyone's benefit. You can also ask the instructor or coach if they are open to continuing the conversation via email or a phone call. I sometimes review a little bit after the fact up two weeks later with some of my students. Though I would definitely make sure that it's okay with the instructor as many of us have a lot going on once we leave work. Just like you, I like to understand how things work and that can sometimes be totally separate from how I'm coached with just one word to get me to change something in my own skiing.

Yeah - although I don't coach skiing I have coached other sports (gymnastics), so I understand that the coach sometimes just needs to move the group on without getting into the weeds. I make an effort to be mindful of that and not derail them.

The instructors that I go back to time and time again are the ones who do exactly what you say and make the time to address questions during the gaps in their lessons or afterwards. I am also aware the ski instructors have personal lives and other commitments and that it may not be possible to make time after - but in my experience most will minimally hang around for 5 mins at the end of the day.

The ones who I don't go back to are the ones who are dismissive of these requests ("you don't need to know the details, just do it"). For me that's a completely different thing to deferring the question until a better time or to "I'm sorry, I need to run and pick up my kid, but I recommend this book/video for your question".

 

[HuntersEmma57]

This is a good topic to revisit mid-season.
Learning preferences absolutely run the spectrum and there’s no best way to teach or learn. I had to look for an approach that best suits me.
While small group lessons can be more focused, it’s nearby impossible to get even a small group to share the same needs and learning preferences
Instructors have a near impossible challenge to meet all those needs in a group lesson.
I saved up for months to pay for an all day private lesson because I don’t like to be talked at for more than a few minutes at a time. I like to identify and focus on 1 or 2 skills and then immediately ski at least half the run before getting any feedback. I know that’s not a group-friendly preference.
The lift ride is where I like to dive into details because they indeed important.
Maybe I’m ADHD. Or it’s the Type A in me.
Keep searching for your happy spot.

 

[Skier31]

I've found this whole thread interesting because I am very detail oriented and I always need to know why - in the parlance above, I am very much a thinker. Given the number of other people saying "don't give me lots of detail, keep it simple and get on with it", I appear to be in the minority!

Of course, if I'm paying for a ski lesson I do want to ski, so what I really like in a ski instructor is someone who can make me do and feel while still satisfying my need for detail.

In group contexts, my need for detail can cause problems because often the rest of the group want to move on while I am still asking questions. I try not to do this too much because I do realise that it can be disruptive. I really appreciate instructors who take the time to accommodate questions, perhaps by answering questions in lift lines or by taking 5 mins when the session is finished.

That is great that you recognize your need for detail. I try to ride the lift with everyone so there can be individual discussion opportunities without taking away skiing time.

I appreciate all the input here. I really try to maximize mileage and practice time.

 

[SnowHot]

That is great that you recognize your need for detail. I try to ride the lift with everyone so there can be individual discussion opportunities without taking away skiing time.

I appreciate all the input here. I really try to maximize mileage and practice time.

I like this approach a lot.
As a personal experience, I was in a ski camp (more tactical than technical) and was having some issues understanding the tactics for skiing the spine of the chute rather than skiing in the chute. The coach had me ride the chair with her on the next ride up to talk me through it. I found success.

Mind you, sometimes the issue is more mental than technical in these situation so I have to figure that out too.
Head games suck.

 

[Briski]

I didn’t read all of these, if they aren’t teaching the skiers code and managing the class accordingly it is a big red flag. I see this most often in kids lessons, where a twenty something is bombing down slopes above the kids skill levels and stopping the group in bad spots, not properly spotting jumps, etc. saw this today in fact.

 

[Ardita]

I really like to understand what I am sopposed to do and what I should feel in my body: positions, etc.
I am a former gymnast and coaches manipulated us quite often to make us feel the shape we had to assume in the air for a specific jump...
This is hard with skiing but maybe take videos, explain what should be done differently, have drills to understand the correct position could help! Also focus on one thing at a time, for example the lower body or the upper part

I don't know if this makes sense!

 

[marzNC]

I really like to understand what I am sopposed to do and what I should feel in my body: positions, etc.
I am a former gymnast and coaches manipulated us quite often to make us feel the shape we had to assume in the air for a specific jump...
This is hard with skiing but maybe take videos, explain what should be done differently, have drills to understand the correct position could help! Also focus on one thing at a time, for example the lower body or the upper part

I don't know if this makes sense!

Makes sense, but won't apply to everyone. I'm not an instructor, but a serious older student when it comes to improving ski technique. I had dance classes in elementary school and I learned multiple sports well into my 20s.

It can be done with skiing for someone who is more aware of their body parts. I set up a morning Diva clinic at my home hill a while back with a very experienced Level 3 instructor who was "kinesthetic" in her approach. I realized yesterday when chatting with another Diva about learning/teaching styles that my instructor there was kinesthetic as his secondary approach. I remember during one semi-private lesson he asked about the bottoms of our feet.

Lately, after a decade of lessons at different places from assorted instructors with 20+ years of experience I'm able to feel far more body parts than before. Meaning focusing on a particular body part while still moving and making turns. Probably mostly because enough muscle memory is good technique so that there is enough mental energy to focus on areas that I wasn't particularly aware of when making turns on a variety of terrain or whatever drill I am working on.