What do I need to know about bindings? Alpine aka downhill

[marzNC]

A few years ago we had a good discussion about bindings, in particular for alpine skis. Some of the recommendations in that thread are out of date, so thought it was worth a new thread as members ask questions about buying skis before the 2019-20 season. Telemark and AT is a completely different story.

Do you have any questions about bindings? Do you have any recommendations for someone buying skis and bindings in 2019 or 2020?

If buying used skis, bindings with separate toe and heel pieces attached with screws directly into the skis can be adjusted a bit. Typically that means 10-20mm, or one boot size up or down. That's why it can be an advantage to buy "starter" skis with demo bindings if you are likely to sell them relatively soon. It's possible to re-drill to move bindings but not recommended to do more than two or three times. I assume it also depends on where the new holes need to be placed.

Note for people who have never bought skis before . . . some skis come with "system bindings" and in that case you just use the bindings that come with the skis. Sometimes those will already be installed. My first K2 skis had system bindings that were also called "demo bindings" pre-installed. But when I bought Head Absolut Joys, they came with two-piece bindings that were in a box and I took them to my local ski shop for installation.

For the previous discussion about bindings in 2015-2016:
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/bindings.19842/

 

[marzNC]

When thinking about the characteristics of ski bindings that apply mainly to "resort skiers" not planning on back country skiing, here are the primary factors to consider.

1) brake width - can be easily changed
2) DIN range - for example 5-15 not a good idea if someone needs a DIN of 4
3) carry weight - for instance, demo bindings tend to be heavier
4) boot length adjustability - demo bindings can fit a range of boot sizes without re-drilling
5) material/construction - does vary but not usually a factor for resort skiers

Any questions?

 

[marzNC]

For details about how a binding works:
https://blisterreview.com/recommended/bindings-201

Here's a video of how a professional with all the right tools installs bindings. Created in 2012 by a ski shop in VT. Had heard of using a "jig" but wasn't quite sure how complex a jig would be. Apparently there are adjustable ones, as well as ones that are made for a specific binding.

I watched a local friend install bindings on skis for his kid once. A little unnerving as he started to drill. He'd been installing bindings for quite a while, but mostly on inexpensive used skis. When I buy skis, I let a professional install the bindings if that's required.

In this case, a system binding was mounted but the only difference is that the screws that go into the ski attach the plate and not the toe and heel pieces. Also includes the binding test using a fancy electronic machine. When I had the torque test done at a small shop near Loon, the tech had a device that he hit with his hand until the boot broke free. There is good info in the comments in this video.

 

[Belgiangirl]

Any questions?

Yes! Been thinking about starting a binding thread for a while but hadn't gotten to it. I strongly suspect I am rather sensitive to having a height difference in the toe vs heel piece and bought Marker demo bindings to remount on one or more pairs. Anyone here using quiver killer or a similar system?

One of the ski's I'd like to remount are Rossi's that currently have axium bindings, on a binding plate I think. Could I get those plates off/remount third-party bindings on those plates?

 

[Belgiangirl]

Yes! Been thinking about starting a binding thread for a while but hadn't gotten to it. I strongly suspect I am rather sensitive to having a height difference in the toe vs heel piece and bought Marker demo bindings to remount on one or more pairs. Anyone here using quiver killer or a similar system?

One of the ski's I'd like to remount are Rossi's that currently have axium bindings, on a binding plate I think. Could I get those plates off/remount third-party bindings on those plates?

Also, if anyone would happen to know the delta of the Marker Griffon demo bindings... I'd be sending you some huge virtual hugs

 

[marzNC]

After recent comments about the fact that DIN setting automatically is supposed to go up at age 50, I found a 2018 article on Blister about DIN settings. The article doesn't really say much. But reading thru the comments was pretty interesting. Bottom line is that for someone who skis a fair amount in a variety of snow conditions, some experimentation can be useful to determine the optimal setting. May be a little higher than the DIN table recommendation or may be a little lower for assorted reasons.

I chose to stick with the pre-50 DIN setting when I crossed that age threshold. But it was easy to simply change from Type II to Type III on a rental or demo registration form. After rehabbing a knee injury around age 55, I lowered the DIN for a month or two after getting back on the slopes. By the next season I was back at the DIN table recommendation for Over 50, Type III for my height and weight, solid advanced skier over 60 at this point but not aggressive. Since I don't have pre-release issues, that's what I use.

 

[racetiger]

I wonder....
Can you take demo bindings apart from the demo "base" and mount the binding to the ski like "normal"? Or is that base plate with all the numbers and tracks integral to that system?
Bindings in question are Tyrolia attack 13. Theyre pretty heavy and clunky.

 

[liquidfeet]

Nope. The two parts go together inseparably. I also have Attack 13 demo bindings on one pair of skis. I put them there on purpose. I may live to regret that decision, but have so far loved, LOVED, the skis, bindings and all. I can shift my boots forward and want to try that, but haven't done so yet. That's why I put those bindings on those skis.

 

[VickiK]

Jackson Hogen, from Realskiers dot come, noted somewhere that ski mfg will use a system binding on the narrower widths, e.g. under 86mm waist, but that wider widths will require a separate binding. Can't quite remember why, but there was a valid reason for it. I've had system bindings on 3 skis, and they're fine, no problems in function, super easy to install, no appreciable increase in weight.

Have never really paid much attention to bindings, unless they were a problem. I'm curious about what a delta is and whether it should be important to me.

 

[SierraLuLu]

I am on the search for some downhill bindings for my new Santa Ana 93s. My DIN setting is nothing too crazy (6 or 7?). I would prefer something lighter weight that can still handle some aggressive and/or steep resort skiing.

Any recommendations? Anything I should be looking out for other than the above mentioned?

 

[ski diva]

I have these exact skis, and I have them mounted with Tyrolia Attack 13's. I like the low profile, low weight, and reasonable price.

 

[mArLTAlove]

I have these exact skis, and I have them mounted with Tyrolia Attack 13's. I like the low profile, low weight, and reasonable price.

just got the same skis! i'll check these out

 

[marzNC]

A comment about bindings reminded me of this thread.

If you bought bindings in the last year or two, what did you get? Why?

 

[fgor]

A comment about bindings reminded me of this thread.

If you bought bindings in the last year or two, what did you get? Why?

Great question. I've chosen a couple of bindings in the past couple of years:

Look Pivot 12 on my Line Pandora 104 skis: I bought these skis from overseas at a fantastic deal (which included an additional discount for buying the skis and bindings together), and had a slightly complicated shipping arrangement where I was going to get them shipped to a friend who I was meeting with to ski in Whistler. I originally wanted Attack 12 or 13s on these because everyone and their dog had told me that Attacks were the easiest to click into and would be the best for a powder ski. I ordered them with attacks, which were backordered but scheduled to arrive in a couple of days, but as the shipping delays grew, I realised that I'd need to change the order or else i wouldn't have the skis for my trip. I didn't want marker bindings (heard too many things about them being hard to step into) and there wasn't a lot else in my din/brake width range. The shop offered me a discount on pivots, which I otherwise wouldn't have considered due to price. I thought they sounded like a great trustworthy binding.

Atomic (Salomon) Warden 13 on my Nordica Santa Ana 88: Again, this was a decision made from limited choices when buying skis from overseas. I considered marker bindings but decided I still didn't want them, would have been interested in some Look bindings e.g. SPX 12 simply because every other ski in my quiver has Look bindings, but again they didn't have any in the right din/brake width. Ended up choosing between Attacks and Wardens, my friends told me that Wardens were the beefier binding but couldn't go wrong with either. I'm lightweight and a cautious skier so don't need beefy but it still made them sound like a good binding I'd also recently listened to a Blister podcast where Cody Townsend commented that the Wardens were his favourite bindings for on snow feel, so decided I'd go with those. Plus I could get them in white which looks so pretty on my skis!

Other skis: Look NX12 Konect system bindings came included on my carvers, and when I bought my first ever skis in 2019, my Black Pearls, I requested an "easy to step into" binding from the shop and let them choose. They picked Look NX12 (i don't think that particular shop sells attacks) and I've been very happy with those.

 

[fgor]

What a wall of text!! Definitely interested in other ladies' binding choice reasoning

 

[scandium]

So I have Atomic Warden MNC 11s on the Yumis - based mostly on shop availability in my nearest ski shop right in the middle of the season, as I got the skis flat for a screaming deal online but they didn't have binding mounting available, so it was going to be cheaper to buy bindings in store and have the mounting included. The ski shop was basically out of everything else that would have been appropriate.

Tyrolia Attack 11s on the Kenjas - a price based decision really (vs the Attack 13s) as I had heard consistently good things about ease of clipping in for the whole Attack range but variable things about the binding delta. Thankfully it turns out I'm not super sensitive to binding delta, and have had no problems.

 

[marzNC]

I put Look SPX 12 on powder skis that I bought used from a Diva in SLC a couple years ago. She'd kept the original bindings. I picked up the skis during a ski trip that included skiing Alta. Went to the Alta Ski Shop and picked from what they recommended and had available. I've rented demo skis from that shop often in the last decade. Since I have Look Dual WTR 12 on my all-mountain skis, I'm perfectly happy with any Look binding. Being petite and only skiing in-bounds, I don't need super-beefy bindings. I only hike for turns when the snow conditions are really good.

My experience with Marker bindings are from when demo'ing. I've learned how to get out of them, but it often takes extra effort. I now those are demo bindings, but still not interested in paying for Marker bindings when there are better options.

The first few pairs of skis I bought had system bindings. Price was right. Meant one less item to have to think about. Also made them easier to sell or allow a friend to use.

By the time I bought a pair of all-mountain skis from a Diva, I knew enough to ask about her BSL beforehand. She confirmed with a ski shop that my BSL was close enough that I wouldn't have to move the bindings. Could just take to a shop to get them adjusted and tested for my boots with appropriate DIN setting for my height, weight, and age. Still have those 88mm skis as rock skis.

 

[volklgirl]

Jackson Hogen, from Realskiers dot come, noted somewhere that ski mfg will use a system binding on the narrower widths, e.g. under 86mm waist, but that wider widths will require a separate binding. Can't quite remember why, but there was a valid reason for it. I've had system bindings on 3 skis, and they're fine, no problems in function, super easy to install, no appreciable increase in weight.

Have never really paid much attention to bindings, unless they were a problem. I'm curious about what a delta is and whether it should be important to me.

The reason skinny skis have system bindings is 2-fold. 1) To prevent “boot out”, where boots wider then the width of the ski can hit the snow when on edge, breaking ski-snow contact and making the ski bounce out of the turn, and 2) system bindings allow the middle of the ski to fully flex under the boot and binding, since the binding rides on the track, not directly on the ski. Full flexion of the ski is much more important for carving skis on hard surfaces than for all mountain or powder skis.


Don’t forget there’s a basic knowledge article regarding alpine bindings in the Gearipedia section.

 

[marzNC]

The reason skinny skis have system bindings is 2-fold. 1) To prevent “boot out”, where boots wider then the width of the ski can hit the snow when on edge, breaking ski-snow contact and making the ski bounce out of the turn, and 2) system bindings allow the middle of the ski to fully flex under the boot and binding, since the binding rides on the track, not directly on the ski. Full flexion of the ski is much more important for carving skis on hard surfaces than for all mountain or powder skis.

Interesting. I didn't consider the skis I bought with system bindings (2009, 2010) as that "skinny" since they were mid-70s. I was using them as all-mountain skis at the time for trips out west, although I wasn't skiing off-piste that much yet. Can see where the race issue would apply to the Volkl Attiva AC1, 70mm, that I got used for my daughter (not a racer) for MidA skiing.

The Head Absolut Joy was a bit different. I bought them new mail order. The skis came with bindings but still had to be installed. From a shopping standpoint, made it simpler.