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what counts as fast?

novium

Certified Ski Diva
#1
So this question is brought to you by my DIN setting angst. What counts as fast?

I definitely think of myself as liking to go hard & fast (given the right conditions), but that's generally between 25-35 mph according to my trackers, and I know (see) a lot of people go twice as fast as me.

How do you guys think of it? What's fast?
 

mustski

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#2
I consider mid to high 30’s fast. Generally my top speed is around 38 according to the slopes app. That is fast enough for me to keep up with most folks.
 

MissySki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#3
I don’t usually track my speed, but I’ll use an app when I go on a trip west etc. My high speeds are usually mid 30s to low 40s depending on the day and terrain skied. Agree with @mustski , this is usually fast enough to keep up with most of the people I’m skiing with on a groomer zoomer type of day.
 

CarverJill

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#6
I ski pretty fast and always check my speed on ski tracks. A normal day filled with varied terrain usually clocks in between 45 and 50 mph for me. If I'm trying to get a high reading and going a bit out of my comfort zone I can get over 50 but its only when everything comes together well that I can get in the high 50s. One time ski tracks measured me at 63.9 mph!
 

contesstant

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#7
Just remember, speed does not = skill. At all.

Slower skiing with skill and finesse takes more...skill. So, don't get too caught up with speed at all.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#8
Right. Fast is easy. Gravity makes it happen.
Being able to ski safely at any speed, including a snail's pace when passing others, is what skill means.

After two season-ending falls, I no longer ski fast (by my definition above) unless the trail totally empty of other skiers and is very wide. Then I ski at speed, down the middle. But these empty trails rarely happen where I ski, so I have found other ways to get my ski thrills.

But two days ago was an exceptional day for me. Boiler-plate groomers, everything off piste closed due to ice, and almost no one on the trails because they were smart and stayed home. It had rained the day before then frozen up afterwards.

I was on my race slaloms which I trust at speed. I must admit I went "fast" a few times.
 
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elemmac

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#9
- Super G Olympian speeds approach 70 mph
- World Cup Slalom skiers make short radius turns while still moving 35 mph
- FIS Mogul skier pace speed is approximately 18 mph for women, 21 for men
- Downhill Olympians ski 75-95 mph :eek:
- Speed skiers can reach 150 mph :crazy:

^ That's fast ^

(Disclaimer: All stats are from various sources on the Google, and I did not fact check any of them)
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#10
So this question is brought to you by my DIN setting angst. What counts as fast?

I definitely think of myself as liking to go hard & fast (given the right conditions), but that's generally between 25-35 mph according to my trackers, and I know (see) a lot of people go twice as fast as me.

How do you guys think of it? What's fast?
If you are asking because you are interested in setting your DIN correctly, that's a tough one to answer. Choosing a DIN setting is an art.

"Fast" can reflect comfort level or thrill level.

--Some people think skiing "fast" is the holy grail of skiing. The faster they go the better they feel about their skiing because it delivers more thrills. And they think speed indicates skill level because they skii experts going fast. Non-experts go fast at my hill too. They are scary!
--Others think "fast" means going past their comfort level. Their comfort level often reflects their intuitive sense of what's safe. That's not always an accurate reading of the situation, but sometimes it is.

--For DIN settings, "fast" means if you crash, the torque on the ski is going to be a high force torque. The higher the speed, the higher the torque. But your weight and the amount of edge you ski with also impacts how high that torque normally is. You want your bindings to release when a crash threatens to break your tibia, but not prerelease when you are producing high-force torques in controlled turns. If your bindings release and cause a fall, that's a pre-release and your DIN setting is too low. If they don't release when you need them to, your setting is too high. Setting the DIN for optimal safety is always a guess when you are somewhat new to skiing, or when you are an infrequent skier. A good guess is usually fine.
 
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liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#11
- Super G Olympian speeds approach 70 mph
- World Cup Slalom skiers make short radius turns while still moving 35 mph
- FIS Mogul skier pace speed is approximately 18 mph for women, 21 for men
- Downhill Olympians ski 75-95 mph :eek:
- Speed skiers can reach 150 mph :crazy:

^ That's fast ^

(Disclaimer: All stats are from various sources on the Google, and I did not fact check any of them)
Personal ski trackers are notoriously inaccurate. If yours is telling you you're going 50, I'd question that.
 

MrsPlow

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#12
Personal ski trackers are notoriously inaccurate. If yours is telling you you're going 50, I'd question that.
My watch tells me that my usual top speed in good conditions would be 35 to 40mph. However I take that with a pinch of salt given that the tracker has also told me that my average speed one day was 64mph with a top speed of 70mph - which seems unlikely even on groomers but I was skiing glades and bumps for most of the day.
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#13
I agree with everything that @liquidfeet replied. DIN charts are usually good for the average speed by skiers in each ability level. Of course some of us get hurt going slower, and other go much faster than the 3+ rating, and do pre-release, not at all while falling.

I am extremely careful going fast in anything but a roped off race course. I want zero people ahead of me, and total confidence in the snow quality and my own ability and choice of gear to be able to slow down and stop safely for myself.

While not necessarily fast if skiing straight down with no turning, 25-35, is very fast when I think of what it would feel like to be hit by a car going that speed if I were to stand in the middle of the road.

I am curious what your concern is relative to your DIN and your speed?
 

nopoleskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#14
Fast for me is 50-60+mph but that's on an open trail w/no people. Ski as fast as you can fall and you must be able to stop ASAP to avoid others. Many fast skiers are out of control imo they can't stop quickly.

Echoing other posts above..
I'm sure you know that DIN should be set so skis will come off when you need them off: A crash. Weight, height, skier aggressiveness and what terrain is being skied factor into DIN setting. If DIN Is too low a premature release can be catastrophic. I disagree at least for me the 'chart' takes me down a number because of my age..
 

novium

Certified Ski Diva
#16
I agree with everything that @liquidfeet replied. DIN charts are usually good for the average speed by skiers in each ability level. Of course some of us get hurt going slower, and other go much faster than the 3+ rating, and do pre-release, not at all while falling.

I am extremely careful going fast in anything but a roped off race course. I want zero people ahead of me, and total confidence in the snow quality and my own ability and choice of gear to be able to slow down and stop safely for myself.

While not necessarily fast if skiing straight down with no turning, 25-35, is very fast when I think of what it would feel like to be hit by a car going that speed if I were to stand in the middle of the road.

I am curious what your concern is relative to your DIN and your speed?
For me, fast is as fast as I can possibly go while still feeling total security in my control of the skis and my speed. I don't push things past.... Well, I'm always aware that there could be an unexpected obstacle or at any moment, so I like "fast, but prudent." so a lot of what you said is pretty much how I feel.

When I've had my bindings set, I've always answered honestly- I ski mostly the steeps, I am a more aggressive skier, and I do like to go fast. (For me, this tends to be max like 35mphish, which is incidentally the top speed of my skis. They turn into noodles after it). I never gave it much thought, just followed the shop recommendations, and they set it at 8.5.

but I've been in PT (not ski related) and have started thinking about my knees and how much I value them.

On the one hand, one of the most terrifying moments of my life was watching a friend o shooting over the edge head first over the lip of a ridge run after his bindings released as he pressured through a turn in the exact kind of firm even conditions I live for.

On the other, I took a bunch of very hard ass over teakettle spills today (working on improving in some very heavy crud with new skis, was mostly due to tiredness on my part) and my skis never released... And I really think they should have. I mean, I'm talking flying forward over the skis and then somersaulting twice kind of falls. At at least 20mph. After catching on the Sierra cement. I started to wonder if they were attached with epoxy. So I think I've decided to take them down a notch.
 

novium

Certified Ski Diva
#17
If you are asking because you are interested in setting your DIN correctly, that's a tough one to answer. Choosing a DIN setting is an art.

"Fast" can reflect comfort level or thrill level.

--Some people think skiing "fast" is the holy grail of skiing. The faster they go the better they feel about their skiing because it delivers more thrills. And they think speed indicates skill level because they skii experts going fast. Non-experts go fast at my hill too. They are scary!
--Others think "fast" means going past their comfort level. Their comfort level often reflects their intuitive sense of what's safe. That's not always an accurate reading of the situation, but sometimes it is.

--For DIN settings, "fast" means if you crash, the torque on the ski is going to be a high force torque. The higher the speed, the higher the torque. But your weight and the amount of edge you ski with also impacts how high that torque normally is. You want your bindings to release when a crash threatens to break your tibia, but not prerelease when you are producing high-force torques in controlled turns. If your bindings release and cause a fall, that's a pre-release and your DIN setting is too low. If they don't release when you need them to, your setting is too high. Setting the DIN for optimal safety is always a guess when you are somewhat new to skiing, or when you are an infrequent skier. A good guess is usually fine.
Do you think it would make sense to have the skis I do most of my carving on set a one thing, and my powder skis set to another?
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#18
For me, fast is as fast as I can possibly go while still feeling total security in my control of the skis and my speed. I don't push things past.... Well, I'm always aware that there could be an unexpected obstacle or at any moment, so I like "fast, but prudent." so a lot of what you said is pretty much how I feel.

When I've had my bindings set, I've always answered honestly- I ski mostly the steeps, I am a more aggressive skier, and I do like to go fast. (For me, this tends to be max like 35mphish, which is incidentally the top speed of my skis. They turn into noodles after it). I never gave it much thought, just followed the shop recommendations, and they set it at 8.5.

but I've been in PT (not ski related) and have started thinking about my knees and how much I value them.

On the one hand, one of the most terrifying moments of my life was watching a friend o shooting over the edge head first over the lip of a ridge run after his bindings released as he pressured through a turn in the exact kind of firm even conditions I live for.

On the other, I took a bunch of very hard ass over teakettle spills today (working on improving in some very heavy crud with new skis, was mostly due to tiredness on my part) and my skis never released... And I really think they should have. I mean, I'm talking flying forward over the skis and then somersaulting twice kind of falls. At at least 20mph. After catching on the Sierra cement. I started to wonder if they were attached with epoxy. So I think I've decided to take them down a notch.
Skiing is inherently risky.

Zooming off out of control at speed, whether tumbling or sliding on your back, is inherently very risky, whether the skis stay attached or not. My one almost-killed-me season-ending injury did not involve a release, but that had nothing to do with the accident. At high speed on spring cream cheese the skis folded on me unexpectedly and over the handlebars I went, into the dense woods, upside down and head first. The boulder that stopped my slide fortunately hit me on the scapula, not the head, neck, or spine. The bindings didn't release, but it would not have made a difference anyway.

My other season-ending injury happened at snail-speed, and it also did not involve a release, but it wouldn't have made a difference either. One ski went up and over a soft spring bump, and the other penetrated the bump. Whoops. Broken humerus.

That said, a DIN of 8.5 is high. I'm thinking that down a notch or two might put you more in the "normal" range for leg protection. Seeing your friend suffer from a pre-release explains maybe why you would go that high, though, and pre-release is never good.
 
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#19
Do you think it would make sense to have the skis I do most of my carving on set a one thing, and my powder skis set to another?
For what it's worth, the only time I signed off to have the DIN set one higher than my usual setting was in 30+ inches of fresh powder. I pre-released a couple times when not going fast at all in the morning. Getting the ski back on was a pain. I made the change when I stopped for lunch since I rented power skis on the mountain. So for me, it's about the snow conditions not the skis I happen to be using.

My Alta instructor sets the DIN differently on toe and heel pieces. Don't remember which is higher though. Do remember he was encouraging me to up my DIN setting a bit on my all-mountain skis if I was going to use them on a powder day.
 

novium

Certified Ski Diva
#20
Skiing is inherently risky.

Zooming off out of control at speed, whether tumbling or sliding on your back, is inherently very risky, whether the skis stay attached or not. My one almost-killed-me season-ending injury did not involve a release, but that had nothing to do with the accident. At high speed on spring cream cheese the skis folded on me unexpectedly and over the handlebars I went, into the dense woods, upside down and head first. The boulder that stopped my slide fortunately hit me on the scapula, not the head, neck, or spine. The bindings didn't release, but it would not have made a difference anyway.

My other season-ending injury happened at snail-speed, and it also did not involve a release, but it wouldn't have made a difference either. One ski went up and over a soft spring bump, and the other penetrated the bump. Whoops. Broken humerus.

That said, a DIN of 8.5 is high. I'm thinking that down a notch or two might put you more in the "normal" range for leg protection. Seeing your friend suffer from a pre-release explains maybe why you would go that high, though, and pre-release is never good.
It's definitely why I haven't been shy with she ski shops about how & where I ski. So type iii skier is how I get classed. Part of the reason I started having the angst is because I was on another ski forum, mostly guys, and they all talk about going 50mph. And I definitely do not go that fast. Then I read a study conducted at a ski resort where they used speed guns and then asked skiers how they classed how fast they were going... The women mostly classed slow as 8-15 mph. Moderate as 15-25, fast as 25+. The slow women averaged about 10mph, the moderate around 20, the fast just above 30. The men on the other hand, put slow at 15-25mph, moderate at 25-35, and fast as 40+, and averaged speeds that matched (I think a lot of them them hit 50mph too). The point of the study was actually about whether DIN settings should take into account gender when defining ski style. (Personally, instead of second guessing individuals, it seems smarter to me to just use a definition based on actual speeds).
 

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