Weight distribution between inside and outside ski

[RJ*]

Hi divas!

I’ve just seen a post that helped me finally articulate a couple of questions that have been swimming in my head all season, and I’m hoping some of you can help clarify. I will mention some of my assumptions about technique as well- please feel free to set them straight if needed.

I am assuming that in terms of edging, turns can happen in a spectrum that goes from a pure carved turn with highest edge angles on one end, to a schmeared turn with flat skis on the other end, and of course, everything in between.

When it comes to weight distribution on skis, what percentage of my weight should be on outside x inside skis as we go from carved turns to a flat ski turn? How does terrain and snow condition affect that?

I’m having some trouble intentionally putting more weight on the inside ski when turning to the right, and then I started thinking, well, how much should I be weighing that ski anyway relative to conditions?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[liquidfeet]

....
When it comes to weight distribution on skis, what percentage of my weight should be on outside x inside skis as we go from carved turns to a flat ski turn? How does terrain and snow condition affect that?

I’m having some trouble intentionally putting more weight on the inside ski when turning to the right, and then I started thinking, well, how much should I be weighing that ski anyway relative to conditions?

If you can ski with 90% on the outside ski and 10% on the inside ski, you're good. If you can ski with 100% on the outside ski and 0 on the inside ski, you're really good. If you can also make those same turns with 50/50 weight distribution, good for you. If you can make those same turns with most of the weight, or all of it, on the inside ski, you're way up there on the goodness scale.

Turns will have better grip on hard snow if you are skiing somewhere between 70/30 to 100/0.

All of this applies to turns that use the ski's edges, both carved and skidded. Carved turns are defined by the tails following the tips; it's not defined by how high the edges are.

Normal recreational skier's turns, whether actually carved (rare without specific training), or skidded (the turns most people make), on hard snow groomers, need to have most of the weight on the outside ski.

 

[RJ*]

This clarifies so much. Thank you @liquidfeet!

 

[RJ*]

@liquidfeet Can you please help me understand what actions the skier does that help the tails follow the tips on a carved turn?

 

[liquidfeet]

@liquidfeet Can you please help me understand what actions the skier does that help the tails follow the tips on a carved turn?

Easier said than done.

Tip the skis without rotating them across the snow. No rotating, no pivoting, no "steering" of the ski is allowed. Stand on the skis such that your weight is in the middle as you tip them, not forward nor aft, so that the tip and the tail both engage in the snow. Otherwise the tail will displace out of the groove the tip is creating. Do not push the skis, or the outside ski, outward. No pushing allowed, because the pushing dislodges both skis from any potential groove the tip begins to create. Direct most of the weight to the outside ski as the turn progresses using angulation (keep torso upright-ish). This helps that ski cut a deep enough groove in the hard snow.

In other words, tip the skis, balance in the middle of the skis fore-aft-wise, and direct pressure/weight to the outside ski. Do nothing else. The skis will go, bend, and turn on their own, with tail following tip, if all is done well and with good timing.

All of this can be done at slow speed on low pitch terrain with barely-there edge angles, going straight downhill. This is the drill called "railroad tracks" aka RRTrx. It's the drill people learn first when learning to carve.

Most people have difficulty learning to carve because they have a very deeply embedded ski-pivoting movement. They rotate the tail out of the groove the tip is creating as they start the turn. They also sometimes have the habit of pushing the ski out to an edge.

It helps to learn with others working on the same skill, and with a teacher.

 

[RJ*]

Wow. This is amazing. Thank you!!!!

 

[BackCountryGirl]

I think of pressure distribution as a tactical choice. For example, in powder, I like pretty even pressure so that my skis act like one device. On ice when I'm trying to carve, I like a great deal outside ski pressure, but get to it by progressively standing on that outside ski from the transition of one turn to the transition of the next turn. In bumps, I tend to be more two-footed, unless I'm trying to carve in bumps, in which case I'll be a bit more outside ski dominant.

 

[RJ*]

This is very helpful, thank you @BackCountryGirl . Today my home mountain had a powder day. I suck in chopped up powder, so I was focusing on trying to get even pressure on both skis. I still struggled through it, but I had a few moments of “oh, this is what it’s supposed to feel like.” Those moments felt like an easy, effortless glide through the chop.

Then I thought it was a great day to go through my favorite mogul runs because hey, soft landings, right? I discovered that under that 6” of fresh snow, each bump was a solid block of ice.

How do you ski this stuff? I couldn’t really see every mogul so it felt like going through a roller coaster ride! And when it comes to pressure on the skis, what exactly are you aiming for? All I could come up with was to try to keep my skis together.

I didn’t die but ate a lot of snow today.

 

[RJ*]

Easier said than done.

Tip the skis without rotating them across the snow. No rotating, no pivoting, no "steering" of the ski is allowed. Stand on the skis such that your weight is in the middle as you tip them, not forward nor aft, so that the tip and the tail both engage in the snow. Otherwise the tail will displace out of the groove the tip is creating. Do not push the skis, or the outside ski, outward. No pushing allowed, because the pushing dislodges both skis from any potential groove the tip begins to create. Direct most of the weight to the outside ski as the turn progresses using angulation (keep torso upright-ish). This helps that ski cut a deep enough groove in the hard snow.

In other words, tip the skis, balance in the middle of the skis fore-aft-wise, and direct pressure/weight to the outside ski. Do nothing else. The skis will go, bend, and turn on their own, with tail following tip, if all is done well and with good timing.

All of this can be done at slow speed on low pitch terrain with barely-there edge angles, going straight downhill. This is the drill called "railroad tracks" aka RRTrx. It's the drill people learn first when learning to carve.

Most people have difficulty learning to carve because they have a very deeply embedded ski-pivoting movement. They rotate the tail out of the groove the tip is creating as they start the turn. They also sometimes have the habit of pushing the ski out to an edge.

It helps to learn with others working on the same skill, and with a teacher.

Thank you for the level of detail. I tried this exercise with an instructor twice, but not for long enough, and found it frustrating. We got a lot of snow today, but I found a place with harder snow to try to practice it. I realized very quickly how unstable my right ankle felt compared to the left. I can see this will require a LOT of practice to get right.

 

[liquidfeet]

@RJ* it does take repeated trying. Maybe for hours on end, day after day. On beginner terrain. Don't give up! Make sure your boots are snuggggg on your ankles.

Bend your knees a big and tip your feet onto their edges. Hold your hands out to the side like a tightrope walker. Lock vision on a target straight down the hill, do not attempt to turn, only attempt to tip, push off, and Go! (No pole plants please).

Tip left, tip right, tip left, tip right, tip left, tip right, and when you're going crazy fast, hockey stop. Look back at your tracks. If they are not pencil-thin, you were rotating your skis or pushing them out or something. Try again.

 

[BackCountryGirl]

So icy moguls are hard. Nobody I know has ever said, "oh, let's ski icy bumps today." But sometimes they just are there and you have no choice. Or you're with a bunch of 7 year old boys who beg to do them because they don't have mortgages, have tiny skis, and truly are invincible

The thing to focus on is using a flat ski and letting your legs (not your head) move up and down. Skiing one bump at a time is really good practice. I think about skiing up the backside of a bump because it's uphill and I will slow down. As I get to the top, I am sucking my legs into my chest. When I reach the top, I move my core down the other side of the bump and lengthen my legs. The tip of your ski should engage the snow or ice and the ski's tip should start the turn. You can slip and slide and pivot to another bump and repeat the process.

You can practice this by standing on top of a bump with your boot on the bump and your tips and tails in the air. By moving toward your tip, your sidecut of your ski wants to turn. Just add a bit of pressure to the outside ski in the direction you want to go.

You can practice extension and flexion by traversing a bumps field and moving your legs up and down while keeping your head level.

And, don't forget the pole touch. A solid nearly blocking move helps.

 

[liquidfeet]

When I first tried it, I kept falling over. Doh!

 

[liquidfeet]

^^That post of mine refers to my first attempts at carved turns, not bump skiing. I forgot to quote the reference post.

 

[RJ*]

@BackCountryGirl so many things to think about! Thank you for the detailed advice. I will digest it and try it some of this out next weekend.

@liquidfeet I definitely felt I was about to fall when the bad foot was on the inside. This is hard!

 

[MissySki]

So icy moguls are hard. Nobody I know has ever said, "oh, let's ski icy bumps today." But sometimes they just are there and you have no choice. Or you're with a bunch of 7 year old boys who beg to do them because they don't have mortgages, have tiny skis, and truly are invincible

The thing to focus on is using a flat ski and letting your legs (not your head) move up and down. Skiing one bump at a time is really good practice. I think about skiing up the backside of a bump because it's uphill and I will slow down. As I get to the top, I am sucking my legs into my chest. When I reach the top, I move my core down the other side of the bump and lengthen my legs. The tip of your ski should engage the snow or ice and the ski's tip should start the turn. You can slip and slide and pivot to another bump and repeat the process.

You can practice this by standing on top of a bump with your boot on the bump and your tips and tails in the air. By moving toward your tip, your sidecut of your ski wants to turn. Just add a bit of pressure to the outside ski in the direction you want to go.

You can practice extension and flexion by traversing a bumps field and moving your legs up and down while keeping your head level.

And, don't forget the pole touch. A solid nearly blocking move helps.

For some reason I aspire to being able to ski icy moguls well.. Definitely have a long way to go for that since I’m still working on being able to ski moguls well in general! Lol Sometimes it clicks so well and sometimes not so much.

 

[RJ*]

For some reason I aspire to being able to ski icy moguls well.. Definitely have a long way to go for that since I’m still working on being able to ski moguls well in general! Lol Sometimes it clicks so well and sometimes not so much.

Me too! For some reason I can’t explain I am obsessed with moguls. I am definitely NOT a good mogul skier by any measure but I really enjoy them!

 

[santacruz skier]

I like soft moguls myself.

 

[MissySki]

Me too! For some reason I can’t explain I am obsessed with moguls. I am definitely NOT a good mogul skier by any measure but I really enjoy them!

Right there with you! They open up so much more of the mountain to you, and allow you to travel on mountains without the fear of coming upon an unexpected bump run. That was always a fear of mine when I didn’t ski bumps in the past anyway. Skiing in New England means I’m often in bumps of less desirable conditions because that’s just how it is most often. I try and practice them as much as possible, I’m glad to hear I’m not alone!

 

[Susan L]

Me too! For some reason I can’t explain I am obsessed with moguls. I am definitely NOT a good mogul skier by any measure but I really enjoy them!

You are a much better mogul skier than you give yourself credit for!!!!

 

[RJ*]

You are a much better mogul skier than you give yourself credit for!!!!

and you are the most encouraging mentor/ski buddy one could hope for!