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Want to Avoid Waxing Your Skis? Consider DPS Phantom 2.0 If Keeping Skis 3+ Years.

#61
Maybe since this does technically change the structure right.. Will be interested in continued reviews of even warmer/wetter snow if you find yourself in it.
Yes, Phantom changes the chemical nature of the bases. However, that's not the same as the "structure" that some people talk about adding to bases to make the water run off a little differently in the spring vs cold winter conditions. Treating with Phantom doesn't change that physical "structure" at all. The best application approach is to have a stone grind with a structure applied that is appropriate for the majority of the conditions that those skis will be used for.

I did the first direct comparison last May at Mt. Hood Meadows and Mammoth. My original BPs with warm weather wax and a paste wax 2-3 times during a ski day (7:30-1:00) vs the AJs treated with Phantom 1.0. I ended up skiing the AJs more by the time we got to Mammoth because I trusted them more even though at 78 underfoot they are not what I would normally pick for soft spring snow.

First time on treated BPs, at Mt. Hood Meadows May 2018
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...-look-timberline-lodge-too.22819/#post-366997

General trip report for May 2018: Bachelor, Mt. Hood Meadows, Squaw, Mammoth
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...ca-bachelor-hood-meadows-squaw-mammoth.22840/

I demo'd the Floskis at Mammoth after Bill and I met the inventor. Had to put on paste wax every run or two. I'm hoping Bill will bring his Floskis to Alta to play around with them more. But they won't be treated with Phantom . . . yet. :smile:
 

Ski Sine Fine

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#62
Yes, Phantom changes the chemical nature of the bases. However, that's not the same as the "structure" that some people talk about adding to bases to make the water run off a little differently in the spring vs cold winter conditions. Treating with Phantom doesn't change that physical "structure" at all. The best application approach is to have a stone grind with a structure applied that is appropriate for the majority of the conditions that those skis will be used for.
I had a grind to structure and hand wax done to my Absolut Joys at the end of last season by a shop. I haven’t encountered full-on spring conditions yet, but I’ve had days where others complained about sticking snow and I felt no such thing. Haven’t had another wax either. At the end of this season, I intend to clean off all the wax from the AJs, grind to structure my new BP88s, then phantom both pairs. I might still wax them afterwards to get them glide better in lift lines (supposedly it’s sticky just shuffling around), but I don’t want to ever have to wax them.
 
#63
I might still wax them afterwards to get them glide better in lift lines (supposedly it’s sticky just shuffling around), but I don’t want to ever have to wax them.
I haven't had any issues in lift lines after the first couple runs. Meaning the first day after treatment.

The two reasons to add wax to Phantom treated skis that I've heard about are:

1) for racing
2) for extremely cold temperatures, meaning less than 5ºF or so.

I haven’t encountered full-on spring conditions yet, but I’ve had days where others complained about sticking snow and I felt no such thing.
My experience with sticky snow has been more out west than in the mid-Atlantic. That's partially because the size of a patch of sticky snow at the relatively small hills is much smaller than at big mountains. Also, by the time temps are up in the 50s in VA/NC in early March, the season usually ends within a week or two. Very different than late season at Alta when there can be a few days in the 50s at the base, followed by a powder storm and another 2-3 weeks of good snow conditions.
 

diymom

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#64
I just got an email from DPS about Phantom, with a link to find the closest cure station. There are now 4 in my area- two in Boston, one in Newton, and one in Duxbury. Personally, I'm waiting for some warmer weather to treat my Atomics. But good to know there are more cure stations around now.
 

diymom

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#66
I have to backtrack on what I posted earlier. I clicked on the link for in the email about Phantom and then assumed I was being shown the shops that had it. Turns out I was being shown shops that carry anything DPS. There are sadly no cure stations at all in MA. The closest to me is Portland, ME.
 

MissySki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#67
I have to backtrack on what I posted earlier. I clicked on the link for in the email about Phantom and then assumed I was being shown the shops that had it. Turns out I was being shown shops that carry anything DPS. There are sadly no cure stations at all in MA. The closest to me is Portland, ME.
Darn, I was excited for some close by! Hopefully someday soon.
 

diymom

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#68
Well, if you are heading up to Sunday River, not much of a detour for you. (And if you are already in Portland, you might as well stop at Holy Donut too. That place is amazing. )
 

MissySki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#69
Well, if you are heading up to Sunday River, not much of a detour for you. (And if you are already in Portland, you might as well stop at Holy Donut too. That place is amazing. )
True, that would work well next season when I’m traveling that way often! Oh I LOVE Holy Donut!! The chocolate sea salt, heaven!
 
#70
I have to backtrack on what I posted earlier. I clicked on the link for in the email about Phantom and then assumed I was being shown the shops that had it. Turns out I was being shown shops that carry anything DPS. There are sadly no cure stations at all in MA. The closest to me is Portland, ME.
Maybe a little lobbying by email? I would think at least one of the ski shops carrying Phantom would be interested. I stopped by one shop in the Boston suburbs last week but they really had no idea about Phantom. :smile:

Have to choose Phantom Cure Station to limit the dealer selection if that's what you are looking for.

Screen Shot 2019-03-20 at 8.40.03 PM.png
 

diymom

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#71
Have to choose Phantom Cure Station to limit the dealer selection if that's what you are looking for.
Yeah, that's what I eventually figured out. It doesn't really matter so much to me since I will be doing the treatment myself. I will shell out the extra $$ to buy Phantom for skis I really like, but I can't see paying $50 or more to do apply it when I know I can do myself fairly easily. (Hence the diy part of my moniker.) Perhaps if I bought skis I really wanted treated asap when I knew the weather wouldn't be cooperative for quite some time I would think harder about using a cure station.
 

vickie

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#72
I'm a DIY for many things also. To me, the big difference is having to get a base grind before applying Phantom. At that point, advantage goes to a shop applying it since I'm already in for the cost of a base grind and already making the 2 trips to the shop.

I haven't looked it up, but wonder if they have a ptex that already has Phantom in it ... for repairs.
 
#73
I haven't looked it up, but wonder if they have a ptex that already has Phantom in it ... for repairs.
Not that I've read. The general recommendation is to not worry about a small section of ptex repair in terms of the overall glide. Given that the skier is not looking for top speed for groomers.

To me, the big difference is having to get a base grind before applying Phantom. At that point, advantage goes to a shop applying it since I'm already in for the cost of a base grind and already making the 2 trips to the shop.
When there is a local shop with a Cure Station, certainly can be worth getting the base grind and treatment done for good skis that will be used for 3+ years.

For my daughter's skis, I didn't bother with a base grind because they were bought new and she had only skied them for a few days before I did the Phantom treatment. Also didn't do a base grind on my old BPs (2011) that have become rock skis for early season and spring skiing. For me, they were worth treating for the performance in warm temps when sticky snow is likely by early afternoon.
 

vickie

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#74
The general recommendation is to not worry about a small section of ptex repair in terms of the overall glide.
That's where I finally landed in thinking about this. Like, if I'd had enough ptex repairs to warrant re-Phantoming, I'd be looking for new skis. And maybe to review some of my choices when I ski!
 

Ski Sine Fine

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#75
For my daughter's skis, I didn't bother with a base grind because they were bought new and she had only skied them for a few days before I did the Phantom treatment. Also didn't do a base grind on my old BPs (2011) that have become rock skis for early season and spring skiing.
What did you do/use to clean and remove all the wax before applying phantom?
 
#76
What did you do/use to clean and remove all the wax before applying phantom?
Based on the video by Ski Essentials in Post #4 that includes training given to the techs who were going to be using a Cure Station, I opted to just brush out as much wax as possible for my daughter's skis. The recommendation from DPS is that a stone grind is best, using a cleaner is better, and brushing is okay. I did a stone grind for my AJs (ski shop near Massanutten).

There are instructions about Phantom DIY application on the DPS website.

Can also take a look at the video in Post #22 of a man in the UK who treated his skis last fall.
 

mahgnillig

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#79
I think I'm going to get this done on my new Stocklis. All of the info out there seems to point at getting a base grind before applying. What kind of base prep would you need for a brand new pair of skis though? I'm assuming a base grind isn't necessary, but will the bases need to be cleaned/brushed?
 
#80
I think I'm going to get this done on my new Stocklis. All of the info out there seems to point at getting a base grind before applying. What kind of base prep would you need for a brand new pair of skis though? I'm assuming a base grind isn't necessary, but will the bases need to be cleaned/brushed?
I think most new skis come with some level of wax applied, but worth asking. For my daughter's skis, I was willing to forgo a base grind since they were bought new. Had been waxed once at home. Skied less than 10 days before I did the Phantom treatment. I brushed them a lot to get out as much old wax as possible. Not the ideal treatment, but seems to work fine.

Have you watched the video in Post #4?

For my Stormriders, I'm waiting until they need a stone grind before applying Phantom. Since I skied them exclusively out west, they don't need to be waxed that often. For my late season trip, I'm bringing my old BPs that I treated last fall for ski days when temps are in the high 30s or above.
 

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