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Want to Avoid Waxing Your Skis? Consider DPS Phantom 2.0 If Keeping Skis 3+ Years.

marzNC

Angel Diva
#42
When I am in the market for my next intermediate skis, if SkiEssentials has what I want, they will have the choice of putting Phantom on my skis or having me go somewhere else to purchase skis.
Please do look at SkiEssentials. I was looking very quickly while waiting around at the airport. I would expect them to be able to add Phantom to any pair of skis even if the webpage for a particular model doesn't have it as an option.

I only looked at two models of skis on the SkiEssentials website when I was trying to see what they were charging for adding Phantom to see how it compared to Level Nine. One was the BP88 and the other was a Volkl modell that was on sale for under $300. I assumed the inexpensive model was geared towards beginners/intermediates but could be wrong. Could be that SkiEssentials just figures that no one looking for skis at that price point would be unlikely to want to add $150 for Phantom.

The initial marketing for Phantom 1.0 was based on the idea that it would be worth using on skis that someone planned to keep for at least 4 seasons. $100 for DIY is less than paying for waxing 5-6 times. Adding another $50 . . . perhaps another 2-3 waxes. Of course if someone getting into skiing wants to invest in waxing tools, the cost comparison would be different.
 

sibhusky

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#43
If someone already had the bench, the vise, the iron, the guides, the stones, etc., the wax cost is negligible. The time is the big savings. But if you're still doing edge maintenance, and have the rotobrushes, etc., even that savings is not much. The only attractive part of this to me is the ability to leave the iron, wax, brushes, home if I travel. Now that has value.

Has anyone used this in -4°F weather?
 
#44
If someone already had the bench, the vise, the iron, the guides, the stones, etc., the wax cost is negligible. The time is the big savings. But if you're still doing edge maintenance, and have the rotobrushes, etc., even that savings is not much. The only attractive part of this to me is the ability to leave the iron, wax, brushes, home if I travel. Now that has value.

Has anyone used this in -4°F weather?
For me, it isn't the time involved with waxing and tuning, but the effort. I'm just not interested in buying more stuff that has to take up space in the house or paying enough attention to learn all the skills needed. I used to wax my skis a few times a season but also paid to have tunes done while at a ski area/resort. Never wanted to deal with sharpening edges. Not part of my personality. The fact that my husband is a non-skier and that we live in the flatlands and I fly to ski big mountains are other factors.

Last spring I tested my Phantom treated skis in warm weather, meaning 40°+F. It was the only reason I brought two pairs of skis. Ended up having far more fun on the Phantom treated even though they were on the narrow side for spring snow.

TR early May 2018 OR & CA - Bachelor, Hood Meadows, Squaw, Mammoth
 

Ski Sine Fine

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#45
I’m a newbie skis owner, so got nothing in terms of equipment or skills. When I encountered spring snow last season, I ended up paying for two quick tunes on the mountain to make them skiable for that day. After the season I talked with my shop and they recommended structuring the base for better glide in sticky snow and hand wax. I had that done. This season I’ve had 13 ski days already. No full spring conditions yet, but when others complained of sticky snow I felt nothing. I am convinced (perhaps erroneously) the structure is the main reason. I can see the wax wearing down (whitish spots). At the end of the season I intend to have the same shop grind to structure and apply phantom 2.0 myself, if DC metro still does not have a cure station within driving distance.
 
#46
Has anyone used this in -4°F weather?
In the Feb 2018 review in Blister Gear, there are comments about skiing Phantom in frigid weather, meaning single digits. Sounds like it worked pretty well.

https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/snowboard-reviews/dps-phantom-permanent-base-glide-treatment

" . . .
Blister reviewer Paul Forward now has over 6 days on the DPS Alchemist Wailer 106 that has been treated with Phantom, so he is the first to offer his initial impressions.

Paul Forward:

Shortly after I received and mounted the Phantom-treated DPS Alchemist Wailer 106, Southcentral Alaska experienced a relatively cold spell with temperatures in the single digits (Fahrenheit). During this period, I spent several days skiing cold, chalky snow on the Wailer 106, mostly on relatively smooth, grippy groomers.

In the cold snow, the Phantom treatment seemed to perform well, and the glide across flatter sections was at least as good as other skis that I’d recently waxed with standard blue Swix CH6X wax (which has a temperature recommendation of -14°F to 23°F). When we got a few inches of cold / light snow, the Wailer 106 continued to glide well without any hint of extra drag from the new cold crystals.

Recently, things got a bit warmer with temperatures in the high 20’s to low 30’s, and we received 10-12” of high moisture-content snow. After canceling our day of heli-skiing due to the ongoing storm, I headed up to the hill for some inbounds maritime pow skiing. The first thing I noticed when I got off the tram and clicked into the bindings was that the skis felt a little sluggish as I was pushing away from the tram deck. Once I started heading downhill, however, that sensation immediately disappeared and I skied down to the next chair with great glide and overall performance.

Throughout the day, the base treatment worked great, and the only time I had any other thoughts about it was while doing a beacon drill during which I took off my skis for about 30 minutes. When I picked up the skis from the snow to click in again, I was a little surprised to see that quite a bit of snow was sticking to the bases. I opted to just toss them down, click in, and ski away, and this was all it took to get back to excellent gliding.

While having some wet snow stick to my skis while stationary was a little surprising, it is something we were told to expect by the folks at DPS. Specifically, I was told that Phantom “behaves differently than wax, since…it isn’t wax. At very slow speeds (like a lift line) you will NOT feel the slippery, freshly waxed feel. But as soon as the initial friction between the base and snow is overcome you’ll have great glide.”

I would say that this description exactly reflects my experience so far.
. . .
Update: 4.3.18

Four Blister reviewers have now spent time on Phantom-treated skis, so it’s time for an update.

Paul Forward:

I’ve now had another 15 days or so on the DPS Wailer A106 treated with Phantom, and I’ve remained impressed. I’ve skied in temps from about 10°F to the low 40’s°F, and in everything from cold pow to rained-on snow, and still feel like the glide in all conditions is quite good. Overall, I wouldn’t make any changes to my initial impressions.
. . ."
"
 
#47
At the end of the season I intend to have the same shop grind to structure and apply phantom 2.0 myself, if DC metro still does not have a cure station within driving distance.
As long as the air temperature is over 50 degrees, applying Version 2.0 is pretty straightforward. Only needs an hour of good sunlight for each cure (A & B).

At this point, most of the Cure Stations are in the northern states, Canada, or at high elevations like in the Rockies. Farthest south in the northeast are around NYC.

Screen Shot 2019-02-10 at 11.02.17 AM.png
 
#48
The farthest north there is a Cure Station is Prince George, BC. I guess that's mostly for backcountry skiers/boarders since that's well north of Kicking Horse and Sun Peaks.

Screen Shot 2019-02-10 at 11.04.02 AM.png
 

sibhusky

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#49
He's comparing it to CH 6, which to me would be what I use in warm weather. I've currently got CH3 and 4 on the skis, because nighttime is in the negative 20's and it doesn't warm up all that fast. I think air temps in the sun today were -12f. So I'm assuming shaded North side snow is still lingering a bunch colder. I'm gliding fine. Others are poling. Plus there seems to be an error in his temperature conversions. -10°c = +14°f. Much warmer conditions. CH3 is for 12 to -26f.
 
#50
Has anyone used this in -4°F weather?
He's comparing it to CH 6, which to me would be what I use in warm weather. I've currently got CH3 and 4 on the skis, because nighttime is in the negative 20's and it doesn't warm up all that fast. I think air temps in the sun today were -12f. So I'm assuming shaded North side snow is still lingering a bunch colder. I'm gliding fine. Others are poling.
The suggestion I got from a DPS rep is that for frigid temps, can always add the appropriate cold weather wax to Phantom-treated bases. The idea is that Phantom provides performance that is equivalent to general purpose wax. So when CH3/4 is the appropriate wax then waxed skis will do better than Phantom. Same principle as for people who race. Waxing is better than just Phantom, but having treated bases can enhance the performance as the wax wears off.

What I like about Phantom is the performance during late season conditions when warm weather wax is needed. The glide is consistent. Much better than waxed skis that need help after a run or two.
 
#51
The suggestion I got from a DPS rep is that for frigid temps, can always add the appropriate cold weather wax to Phantom-treated bases. The idea is that Phantom provides performance that is equivalent to general purpose wax. So when CH3/4 is the appropriate wax then waxed skis will do better than Phantom. Same principle as for people who race. Waxing is better than just Phantom, but having treated bases can enhance the performance as the wax wears off.
@sibhusky : the additional info from the DPS rep after consulting with the Phantom team is that "What we've found is that people who apply cold weather wax to their Phantom prepped skis are finding that their wax is staying on longer due to the structural change made to the base."
 
#52
Apparently there are over 100 Cure Stations in the U.S. Although it may take a while for all the shops to be fully set up and listed on the DPS website.

Other resorts besides Aspen are interested in treating their demo fleets with Phantom. Presumably won't happen until the 2019-2020 season.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
#53
The number of locations with the Phantom Cure Station listed on the DPS online map continues to grow. There are about 85 in N. America. There are Cure Stations in Japan and Australia too, but not in the DPS Dealer Locator database yet. Perhaps when that will happen in June as the Australia/NZ season approaches.

Temps need to be over 50ºF for a good DIY treatment.

Screen Shot 2019-03-09 at 3.57.17 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-03-09 at 3.57.58 PM.png
 

echo_NY

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#54
I can’t believe I missed this thread!

I got new skis this past winter - the DPS alchemist Zelda 106, and when I got them, got phantom 2.0 applied. I took them out in interior British Columbia with a lot of “cold smoke” skiing as well as a day of above freezing temps. I was alpine ski touring.

It slid across the snow effortlessly-in very cold temps as well as in above freezing temps. The snow was so hard to push around on that day or two days of above freezing temps. But the skis slid well and quickly, didn’t feel any sensation of getting stuck.

It’s been my only time out on it other than some AT skiing here in the NE but temps were cold and we had powder those days. I was pleased. I paid the shop that sold me the skis to apply phantom 2.0... they do it everyday it seems and they have something in house to cure the skis so it doesn’t have to sit out in the sun I believe.

Would indoors under a skylight work for curing? Just wondering out loud if it definitely has to be outside if someone does it DIY.

In any case, from my limited experience I enjoyed it :smile: but I give all credit to the ski itself lol
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
#55
Would indoors under a skylight work for curing? Just wondering out loud if it definitely has to be outside if someone does it DIY.
I would think the answer is "no." It's the UV that's necessary and it has to be above a certain strength. One reason the Cure Stations were created was that DPS learned the hard way with Phantom 1.0 in Jan-Apr 2018 is that people who live in the PacNW cannot get a good cure outdoors during the winter even on sunny days that aren't that cold. The sun just isn't strong enough that far north.

I think of a Cure Station as a "tanning bed" for skis and snowboards. :smile: The video that demonstrates how it's used is in Post #6.
 

echo_NY

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#56
Ah interesting! Ok so the curing stations and treatment is absolutely needed. I’m glad we trusted the professionals to handle! And Interesting also about the environmental and human immune system impact of some traditional waxes!! I hadn’t any clue. Good to read up on the phantom system and the existing waxing ... one of the articles had me chuckling. Too funny about starting a new routine with a beer and reading the magazine (instead of waxing). Hah!
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
#57
Ok so the curing stations and treatment is absolutely needed.
At least for people who don't live in the south. I treated my AJs in January 2018 in central NC right after Version 1.0 shipped. Version 2.0 shipped in Fall 2018 so there were certainly people in places farther north who could apply the treatment themselves before it got too cold or the sun was too weak.
 
#59
Had a chance to test Phantom 2.0 with warm spring conditions at Wachusett (near Boston) yesterday. Used my AJs in the morning when temps were in the low 40s. Worked as well as ever as expected. I treated them in Jan 2018 (Phantom 1.0). After lunchtime I took out the Floskis I treated last fall. They are wider and designed for soft snow. They work much better in the softened snow that's been pushed around all morning so that there are clumps and many places are essentially ungroomed. Temps were in the high 40s at the summit by 11:30 and slushy at the base in places. I had a good time at slow speeds on the flats and a higher speeds on the blue/black trails.

I think I'm going to take my old BPs to Alta in April since I also treated them in the fall.
 

MissySki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#60
Had a chance to test Phantom 2.0 with warm spring conditions at Wachusett (near Boston) yesterday. Used my AJs in the morning when temps were in the low 40s. Worked as well as ever as expected. I treated them in Jan 2018 (Phantom 1.0). After lunchtime I took out the Floskis I treated last fall. They are wider and designed for soft snow. They work much better in the softened snow that's been pushed around all morning so that there are clumps and many places are essentially ungroomed. Temps were in the high 40s at the summit by 11:30 and slushy at the base in places. I had a good time at slow speeds on the flats and a higher speeds on the blue/black trails.

I think I'm going to take my old BPs to Alta in April since I also treated them in the fall.
This definitely has me considering it, I HATE sticky skis in the spring! I wonder if this helps with the argument over whether it is wax or base structure that helps the most with the major stick in the spring. Maybe since this does technically change the structure right.. Will be interested in continued reviews of even warmer/wetter snow if you find yourself in it. I’ve never had luck with waxes in the spring after a few runs.
 

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