Waist-high moguls (exaggerating)

[Fluffy Kitty]

I've said many times here that I avoid moguls like the plague, but my goal for this season is to be able to get down anything. I've been picking my way down some moderate moguls, and practicing short-radius turns with diligent pole plants and with the planks closer together, even on cat tracks and on trails I would have GS'ed down.

Then came the knee-high moguls. (Felt like waist-high at times, but that's probably an exaggeration.)

I would have said I got "stuck" in them, except that I made myself go down this mogul field TWICE! Man, did I look and feel like a beginner on the steeps! The mogul section was on a blue trail, maybe 20 degrees steep, and was long, at least half a mile, maybe a mile, in four batches, with the first one being the most difficult (not helpful). The trail was covered with two or three inches of medium-light fresh snow, which slowed things down and cushioned the fall, but also made things unpredictable and made really quick turns difficult. It was snowing, leading to low visibility.

I'm proud to say I made my way down with just one fall and several close calls, but I could definitely use some tips. Here are some obvious answers I know.

1) Shorter skis. I'm 170cm tall, and my skis are 170cm long. 150cm would have been perfect, and allowed shorter turns I needed. Tips digging in was a huge problem, and responsible for the fall, and even a few cm would have made a big difference. Unfortunately, this is not a good option for me; it would be hard to justify getting shorter skis just for that one trail of moguls, especially since they would make me unhappy on the rest of the mountain. I did think about borrowing my daughter's 142cm skis, though...

2) Zip-lining down. This is the obvious expert-mogul solution, and I only saw one person doing it. I will need to practice super-short turns, and build a lot of confidence, before I can slither my way down at speed. Nowhere near there, yet. The troughs were also so steep, deep, and narrow that I'm not sure I could keep my skis together without overlapping, so I still need to be able to maneuver around and up and down those cartoon-whale-shaped things. Long skis are a problem, too; there were many places where I would have gotten wedged sideways.

3) Better line choice. Half-way down the first round, I realized that all the people who were flying down the moguls were avoiding the super-high ones I was struggling with. Duh. With visibility low, this was challenging, and I kept misjudging the bumps, but I was able to stop and side-step and such to pick a better line. I suspect I will get better at this with experience.

What ended up helping a lot was to give myself instructions, and encouragements, out loud. "Up that one", "into the trough," "take your time," "traverse", "oops, bad choice; never mind; keep going", "turn on that", "oh, this one's easy", and, most importantly, "good job!" I probably sounded insane, but it did boost my confidence. I would have gone down one more time if I had the time. The Bob Barnes video and an Elate Media video were constantly on my mind, of course.

(I should have taken photos, but it just doesn't occur to me when I'm struggling down something.)

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

[geargrrl]

really big moguls change the game a bit. You have to decide if you are going to go around them, or drop off of them and ski the face.

 

[Pequenita]

There are some ski areas on the east coast that have very limited terrain, and in an effort to have one or two ungroomed runs, the ski area lets some moguls get really, really unruly. They're huge and irregular because only a portion of the people who ski them make consistent turns, and the refresh rate of new snow doesn't happen quickly enough. I can't remember where you are geographically, but if this is the case for you, just know that it's really challenging to look and feel good skiing something like that.

In this situation, my tactic is to stay on the sides. People seem to get filtered into the middle, which means that the moguls in the middle tend to be larger.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Yeah, if you are okay with being near trees, the sides are the place to be. The better skiers are comfortable on the far sides, and the less-good skiers are not, so you get a double benefit of better-formed moguls as well as it being less chewed up.

I would say, first of all, don't beat yourself up. Bumps are hard. I struggle with them, too, and my confidence seems to be a huge factor in it. One day I'm pretty happy with my turns; the next day, not so much.

I wouldn't worry about getting shorter skis - as you said, it's hard to justify, but also, how many days are you going to be skiing bumps all day, or enough that you don't mind taking the bump skis into other terrain as well? I looked at getting dedicated bump skis, but I realized that I was never going to spend all day in the bumps, and I'd just be frustrated with bump skis in other terrain. That being said - if you do decide to look for bump skis, there's more to it than length. Something with less sidecut; something that has a flat tail; something softer. I think those are some of the criteria, but like I said, I didn't end up going that route, so I'm not an expert.

A drill that always seems to help when I am struggling in bumps: traversing to practice absorption. Go across the hill - directly across, not at an angle - allowing your knees to suck into your chest at the near side of the bump and then pushing your skis down the far side. Your only turn is when you get to the far side of the run. (As I type this I am realizing this is EXACTLY what I need to do myself to rebuild some confidence - so, thanks!) Do this traverse and turn 5-10 times and see if your skiing doesn't naturally improve in the bumps.

I would *not* suggest looking at the zipper line just yet. There are many ways to ski the bumps. It's not that the zipper line isn't valid way to ski or even that it can't be done smoothly / with minimal impact to knees - because it can be, and it can even be done relatively slowly. But if you're looking for that, I would suggest doing a bump-specific clinic. And I think you'll find that even if they're working toward the zipper line for you, they will start with other approaches first.

 

[santacruz skier]

I agree with @Pequenita .... we ski Gunbarrel @ Heavenly and always on the sides!!

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

You have to decide if you are going to go around them, or drop off of them and ski the face.

So, when I'm dropping off the face, should I try to 1) slide into the trough, 2) avoid getting into the trough, and traverse on the face, or 3) try to unweigh and climb up the next bump?

There are some ski areas on the east coast that have very limited terrain, and in an effort to have one or two ungroomed runs, the ski area lets some moguls get really, really unruly.
...
In this situation, my tactic is to stay on the sides. People seem to get filtered into the middle, which means that the moguls in the middle tend to be larger.

I'm in Oregon. The habit here seems to be that the blacks are not any steeper than the blues, just less groomed and narrower. The trail I was on is blue, but, I think, is deliberately left ungroomed to encourage the bumps to grow. I think it's for people who like the unruliness, not people like me who are trying to learn.

Sticking to the side did help, but it was hard not to get filtered in. :-) It's also hard to remember that it is OK to just avoid the really nasty stuff. Thank you for the assurances, @bounceswoosh and @santacruz skier!

 

[TeleChica]

I do OK in smaller bumps, but I'm not a great bump skier, so take this with a grain of snow. Some things I think about:

• Remember to reach ahead to the next turn--it helps me with better body position so I'm not sideways to the fall line.
• Turn on top if the bump whenever possible. So much easier!
• Work on flexion/extension. Draw your legs up as you ride up the bump and extend down into the troughs.
• It's fine to go slow--I try to take things a bump at a time--that way I don't get worn out as fast and work on making each turn count.
  
• Don't worry about how you look, and try to have fun! If you stop enjoying or learning, get the heck out of the bumps. Why torture yourself?

@Pequenita's advice is also spot on. I'll start at the sides of the bumps (here they often groom half the slope and leave 1/2 bumped) and you can get started on smaller, easier bumps and ease in and out of taller ones as you feel more confident.

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

And, @bounceswoosh, thanks for the reminder about absorption. I know I kept forgetting about it. The traversing drill also sounds like a great confidence booster.

@TeleChica, thanks for the suggestions, especially about not torturing myself and not worrying about how I look. I think my "crazy lady" routine worked because it helped me not care what others think. There was a moment when I yelled out "good job!" after making a particularly easy turn, and I got self-conscious... and then got over it, and I was on a roll.

 

[bounceswoosh]

And, @bounceswoosh, thanks for the reminder about absorption. I know I kept forgetting about it. The traversing drill also sounds like a great confidence booster.

It is! If you think you're in impossible bumps and you don't see a way forward, do that drill, and you'll find you're halfway down the run in no time.

@TeleChica 's post reminds me of something else I need to work on (sigh) that came up last time I skied - I tend to let my uphill hand really hang back uphill, which prevents me from facing down the mountain, which in turn actually prevents me from being able to release my edges and make the next turn, so that I end up lifting the inside leg to make the turn. So facing forward isn't just a mentality thing - if you're facing sideways (as I tend to do when I'm not feeling it), you actually keep your skis from engaging properly.

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

I tend to let my uphill hand really hang back uphill, which prevents me from facing down the mountain, which in turn actually prevents me from being able to release my edges and make the next turn, so that I end up lifting the inside leg to make the turn.

I have a drill for that! When you are reaching forward with the downhill pole, reach out with the uphill hand as well. You look a bit like you are rowing at first, but eventually both hands will just both stay forward.

I've also changed the way I hold my pole. I have it go between my middle finger and ring finger, sometimes between ring finger and pinky. Much easier to swing with the arms staionary, at some expense of unweighting ability.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I have a drill for that! When you are reaching forward with the downhill pole, reach out with the uphill hand as well. You look a bit like you are rowing at first, but eventually both hands will just both stay forward.

I've also changed the way I hold my pole. I have it go between my middle finger and ring finger, sometimes between ring finger and pinky. Much easier to swing with the arms staionary, at some expense of unweighting ability.

Yup, I've been working on the uphill hand thing. Funny thing, last season I had this issue whipped. Actually, even early season this year I was doing pretty well in bumps. It crept back.

I wear mittens, so my pole holding options are pretty limited =)

 

[snow cat]

Well, I got this advice from an expert skier when we were skiing together last year at Crested Butte after he took me and my friend to a bump field and I was struggling:

Just pick a spot down the hill and go straight toward that spot.

He said since we already know how to ski non-bumpy trails well, if we do this - picking out a point and skiing towards it - without focusing on the bumps and worry about them and trying to decide/figure out what to do with faces/troughs, our legs naturally knows what to do already so they'll just do what they need to do. I didn't believe him at first but I tried it and it did work much better skiing in the bumps. I guess my legs really do know what do to, without me consciously directing them, and it helps you to face downhill so you can make the turns. Doesn't that always help in any skiing situating??? And I think all the thinking about what I need to be doing and when I should be doing what was really getting to my head and confidence, messing me u,p and making me feel bad.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Well, I got this advice from an expert skier when we were skiing together last year at Crested Butte after he took me and my friend to a bump field and I was struggling:

Just pick a spot down the hill and go straight toward that spot.

He said since we already know how to ski non-bumpy trails well, if we do this - picking out a point and skiing towards it - without focusing on the bumps and worry about them and trying to decide/figure out what to do with faces/troughs, our legs naturally knows what to do already so they'll just do what they need to do. I didn't believe him at first but I tried it and it did work much better skiing in the bumps. I guess my legs really do know what do to, without me consciously directing them, and it helps you to face downhill so you can make the turns. Doesn't that always help in any skiing situating??? And I think all the thinking about what I need to be doing and when I should be doing what was really getting to my head and confidence, messing me u,p and making me feel bad.

Trees are a good one.

I have noticed that at the bottom of the run, if I'm focused on meeting up with the group (looking forward), I ski better.

Also in really nasty crud the weekend before Christmas, I noticed that I had no trouble with being bounced around in the crud - because our group had separated and I was looking way up and across to the top of Horseshoe Bowl where my friends were about to drop in. You could tell it was tricky just by how they approached it, so I was riveted - and then noticed I'd skied across the crap without getting bucked around.

 

[Gloria]

So, when I'm dropping off the face, should I try to 1) slide into the trough, 2) avoid getting into the trough, and traverse on the face, or 3) try to unweigh and climb up the next bump?
, @bounceswoosh and @santacruz skier!

Don't slide into the trough, instead drive the tip of the ski down the downhill side of the bump in the falline.

 

[Skisailor]

Hi Fluffy Kitty.
There is some great advice in this thread. What strikes me though is to be clear about the pole touch! It's critical in fall line oriented bump skiing. Where should it be??
Not sure where others mean when they say "forward". But imagine skis oriented across the fall line and upper body facing downhill. It's critical that you not swing the pole forward in the direction of your ski tips. This sets you up for a longer radius turn where you will pick up more speed. For short radius turns the pole touch should be near the heel of your boot! This allows the shoulders to remain facing downhill. Reaching forward with that pole is one of the things that blocks your short turn initiation and can result in that -lifting the inside ski - syndrome.

The other thing that causes us to lift the inside ski is looking or turning our upper body into the second half of the turn too soon. In steeps and bumps it's natural to want to get those skis around quickly. But looking too soon into the new direction causes a chain reaction with shoulders and hips that locks the downhill (new inside) ski on edge and prevents an easy release and pivot. So then we are forced to pick it up to get it around. Sound familiar?

The cure is to remember that even in short turns we must first "go through neutral" - patiently allow the skis (and our bodies!) to unwind and face downhill BEFORE moving into the finishing half of the turn.

"Patience turn" drills on groomers are great to address this.

There was another thread where we discussed the pole touch thing with pictures but I can't remember what the thread title is! Bummer.

 

[contesstant]

Trees are a good one.

I have noticed that at the bottom of the run, if I'm focused on meeting up with the group (looking forward), I ski better.

Also in really nasty crud the weekend before Christmas, I noticed that I had no trouble with being bounced around in the crud - because our group had separated and I was looking way up and across to the top of Horseshoe Bowl where my friends were about to drop in. You could tell it was tricky just by how they approached it, so I was riveted - and then noticed I'd skied across the crap without getting bucked around.

I need to do this more. I stare at my skis a LOT.

 

[marzNC]

Couldn't find the thread about pole touches that had a picture, but did find these two. The first is about the basics of using poles. The second is more related to bumps.

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...-am-i-supposed-to-do-this-all-the-time.13437/

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/pole-length-and-skiing-steeps-bumps.15794/page-2

 

[marzNC]

Found a thread about absorption, which reminded me about the tips from Donna Weinbrecht in April 2013.

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/absorbing-bumps.17352/

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/mogul-tips-from-donna-weinbrecht.17210/

 

[Skisailor]

Found it!

The discussion was about placing more emphasis on rotary movements (vs edge and pressure) in skiing.

But note the pics I posted of Ursula and where her pole touch goes in short radius turns on steeps - it's the same for bumps!

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...g-a-different-kind-of-view.18357/#post-269402

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

WOW! I wish I had checked in before heading out this morning! So many ideas and so much to digest, including the other threads mentioned. Thank you, Divas!

I only had one chance to try a shorter, medium-mogul field today. 80mph winds shut down the lifts at Bachelor, and I had to concentrate on getting my daughter and myself back to our car. (I'll post some videos later.)

Anyway, I did have a chance to implement some of the ideas from yesterday, and I did do and feel much better. I'll throw in the new suggestions next time; some of them, I might need some clarifications later.

Now, one thing that hasn't been addressed is how to avoid getting stuck, or how not to worry about this. This was the big problem last time in the big moguls, and a minor problem today: the skis getting wedged between two or three bumps, with nowhere to go. This happened with traversing and also with pointing more down the fall line. I assume this is a line-choice issue, and I did do better today, but it's still panic-inducing and therefore bad-technique-inducing!