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Vail's employee problems discussed in Vail Daily.

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
An interesting article from Vail Daily, To be fair, many of the issues identified here go beyond Vail Resorts. Wage compression after minimum wage increases, employees being required to provide their own personal gear, workers not being compensated for their entire work day. But here goes:


Vail Resorts workers say efforts to improve employee experience at odds with class-action settlement effort​


Amid Vail Resorts efforts to present itself as a company that prioritizes resort talent, a lawsuit involving many of the company’s employees isn’t helping that end.

Vail Resorts’ new $20-per-hour starting pay initiative hasn’t been well received by many of the company’s longtime workers, some of whom see the public relations push as a hypocritical gesture when viewed alongside the company’s offer for an unfair labor practices lawsuit settlement dubbed as “pennies on the dollar.”

Numerous Beaver Creek employees communicated the same sentiment in interviews with Vail Daily following a spring 2022 meeting in which the employees learned of the higher-pay initiative. Several of these employees wished to remain off the record, but expressed similar opinions as those who spoke on the record.



One of the key takeaways for employees who have spent many extra credit hours on the job unpaid over the years is that $20 per hour for unpaid working hours still amounts to zero.

‘Our strategic priority’​

Vail Resorts CEO Kirstin Lynch, in announcing the company’s increase in its minimum wage in March, described the effort as an attempt to return to full staffing.



“We are looking at making our resort talent our strategic priority,” Lynch told investors in Vail Resorts’ March 14 earnings call.

The announcement of the new initiative followed weeks of coverage from major media outlets suggesting resort talent had not been a priority in the run-up to the 2021-22 season, along with word-of-mouth accounts of unfair labor practices which were being presented in court.

The reputation of an unattractive work environment was a problem for a company that was noticeably understaffed last season and will be looking to staff up before next season. At Vail Mountain, two of the resort’s “Seven Legendary Back Bowls” were not accessible via a lift as lift No. 22 never got up and running. The promise of a new training area on Vail’s former NASTAR course was spoiled, as well, as the area’s dedicated surface lift did not open as promised.



Vail Resorts saw a potential solution to the low staffing issue in its public relations push to announce a higher starting wage in March. The $20 per hour pay for new hires presents a response to the charge that the wages are low, and an enticing offer to those thinking about joining.

But it also leaves past employees feeling slighted.

Blaik Shew was one of the workers who attended an employee meeting in Beaver Creek this spring in which the new employee initiative was announced.

He said the message was “we know you’ve given us years and years, and some of you, decades, and we know you’re getting paid $20 an hour now, but even though you’ve taught skiing for 20 years, we’re going to try to find instructors that have never taught skiing, and we’re gonna pay them what you’re being paid now.”

Low offer​

With new talent being recruited at wages it took the better part of a decade for some employees to reach, many feel the same way as Shew.

A way to compensate past employees for their loyal service could lie in a settlement being sought on behalf of more than 100,000 employees who have worked for Vail Resorts.

But the settlement instead accomplishes the opposite, Shew said.

“My settlement notice said I would receive $82,” he said. “The $82 is the equivalent to about one day of missing pay.”

An example of a day in which a Beaver Creek instructor like Shew would have to provide $82 more service than the company paid him for would probably start around 7:30 a.m. for a client who wants to meet at the Gondola in Vail at 8:29 a.m.

The texts and calls with the client would start that morning on Shew’s personal phone, for which he said he receives no stipend or reimbursement. The amended plan to meet in Vail, rather than Shew’s actual place of employment in Beaver Creek, will require more travel time and a 30-minute earlier lift load, which Shew said he will not be compensated for. Reimbursement for parking at Vail will not be provided, either.

Shew will be using his own quiver of skis, changing skis depending on the conditions, and all of those different pairs are quite expensive, part of a total gear purchase for which Shew receives no reimbursement. When a client breaks one of Shew’s poles trying to get up from a fall, nicks up Blaik’s skis by running over them with a freshly sharpened pair, forgets hand warmers, or uses Shew equipment and then neglects to return it, Shew is not reimbursed.

At the end of the day, when the client wants to take the last gondola up at 3:55 p.m., Shew said he will oblige despite the fact that he stopped getting paid at 3:30 p.m. They’ll get down some time after 4:30 p.m., and Shew will talk with the client and make suggestions on technique, gear and even restaurants for another 30 minutes, also unpaid.

And this is for a ski instructor who actually received a lesson that day.

During Vail Resorts’ June 17 court hearing for the labor lawsuit underway in California, Ohio instructor Bryan Griffith described a situation in which instructors wait around for hours, unpaid, on the chance that a walk-in client will want a lesson.

“Each shift is anywhere from four to seven hours, but of those seven hours, on many of those shifts I’d only get paid for one hour, the one single hour that I was in a lesson,” Griffith told the judge.

Vermont instructor Jon Johnson told “The Daily Digger” the same applies at Vail Resorts-owned Okemo, where he works part-time.

“We get paid 15 minutes to put on our gear and 20 minutes to take off our gear and do our timesheet at the end of the day, but the hours that you’re paid are only when you’re actually in a lesson,” Johnson said.

A similar situation has also been described in Park City, where Park City Mountain Resort employee Jill Adler maintains the website skiplaylive.com.

“Think you should be paid while you stand around in your uniform waiting to be assigned a lesson? You usually aren’t,” Adler writes. “A snowboard instructor I met said, ‘This is bull—-,’ and walked off one day. He never came back.”

Expensive performance​

In an interview with the Vail Daily, Adler said there’s a performative aspect of the job which goes unpaid, as well.

“If we showed up with skis that were 10 years old, they would not like that, because you’re a professional instructor and you’re supposed to have the top-of-the-line gear that helps sell it to their customers,” she said. “What other W2 job requires you to show up with thousands of dollars of equipment that you personally have to take care of and upkeep?”

Instructors are also expected to know about Vail Resorts’ other properties and offer to go there with them, if required, as part of a lifestyle that affords that kind of travel. But the employees aren’t paid enough to actually live the lifestyle they’re expected to portray, or reimbursed if they try, Adler said.

It’s part of a corporate strategy present in all big resorts, not just the Vail Resorts properties, Adler said.

“When I’ve had personal conversations with my managers, it’s not that they don’t want to help or don’t see the problem, they’re like, ‘our hands our tied, we can’t do anything,'” she said. “It’s a corporate strategy … and nobody has questioned it until now.”

Adler said the $20 per hour starting wage is coming several years too late, and if the settlement is accepted in the labor lawsuit, which does not require Vail to admit any wrongdoing “then they can continue,” Adler said. “But there’s no change, nothing is different.”

Adler said, just like in Beaver Creek, the announcement that new hires will receive $20 was received with skepticism in Park City by the company’s long-time employees.

There’s a disconnect between Lynch’s claim that the company is making resort talent its strategic priority, and Vail Resorts’ efforts to squash its lawsuit without paying a meaningful settlement or admitting any wrongdoing, Adler said.

“If you come to work dressed in your uniform, you deserve to be paid for the time you’re there,” Adler said. “So offering $20 bucks an hour when you’re still not paying for all hours worked is ridiculous.”

A final approval hearing for Vail Resorts’ current settlement effort is scheduled for Friday in South Lake Tahoe, California.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
“Each shift is anywhere from four to seven hours, but of those seven hours, on many of those shifts I’d only get paid for one hour, the one single hour that I was in a lesson,” Griffith told the judge.

I can't understand how that isn't just straight up illegal.
 

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I can't understand how that isn't just straight up illegal.
That is unfortunately the system in which most ski/ride instructors operate. The instructional segment of the industry relies upon people who teach for "fun" or for the satisfaction of helping others to sustain an unjust and exploitive pay structure. I know a lot of really kind, talented, good-hearted people who teach skiing and riding for altruistic reasons, and I wish they would stop. If you want to be helpful, work with kids' programs or start a clinic at a non-profit mountain, but stop allowing the current resort-instruction system to remain viable by means of your good intentions.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@SallyCat but we're talking about employees, right? Is it legal to require them to be around for 7 hours but only get paid for 1?
It shouldn't be, but it is. In my state (NH), they recently instituted a law that said a ski instructor must be paid for a minimum of 2 hours if they show up for work all day, even if they don't teach. This is called "show up" pay. But earlier in my career there was no suck law, and I often would show up on a weekday and get no work, thus no pay.

I think it must be a state-by-state thing.
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I get 15 minutes of paid show up time at my lowest pay rate for the morning and the afternoon. After that 15 minutes I am freento leave until the afternoon lesson line up. Sometimes I get paid for haging out an extra half hiur or so for last minute walk up instructir availability. Zero health insurance options through work. Bad snow, no work, but still have to show up. Vail is not the only one, far from it.
 

EasternSkiBum

Certified Ski Diva
What everyone said is all true... it's standard in the industry. It's also legal in many states to pay below minimum wage because of the potential to earn tips. Where I teach... tips are few and far between for someone who is a line instructor teaching mostly group lessons. I've taught for peanuts for many years.
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
I think it must be a state-by-state thing.
Agreed, I think what is being described (required to be at work for 7 hours, while only actively working 1 hour) is considered stand-by or on-call pay. I believe there are federal laws, as well as state laws that protect against not being paid for the time that you are required to be at you job. In most cases, I do not think your stand-by wage is required to be the same as your "regular" working wage.

It sounds like from many accounts from instructors, some mountains require you to be on standby, others let you go "free" after morning lineup. Either way, I think it's illegal to require you to be there and not pay you at all from a federal standpoint, and most states set the level that you are required to be paid.
 

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
Just saw this on Snowbrains.com:

Vail Resorts will pay $13.1 million to settle five wage and labor lawsuits brought against the company in California for claims of labor law violations.

Preliminary approval of the $13.1 million deal was given in March 2022, and on Friday 19th August, 2022, Judge Michael McLaughlin granted final approval of the settlement offer in court in South Lake Tahoe.
The decision will likely put an end to a similar class action lawsuit filed in Colorado.

Vail Resorts offered a $13.1 million settlement in January 2022 to five wage and labor lawsuits filed in California over two years ago. The settlement could have implications for anyone who has worked for Vail Resorts in recent years.

The lawsuit, and a similar one filed in Colorado, alleged that Vail Resorts violated state and federal labor laws by “systematically failing to pay its hourly employees for all hours worked”.

Vail Resorts called the settlement offer “appropriate and fair” adding that it was an “excellent monetary result” for eligible employees across the country.

The deal offers $13.1 million to “settle all claims” against Vail Resorts, but upwards of $4.36 million in legal fees would be taken off the top of this amount, according to court documents obtained by the Vail Daily.
A further $500,000 will go to complaints made using the Private Attorneys General Act. Of the remaining $8.24 million, the 100,000 “class members” will receive about $82 per person.

In December 2020, three Vail Resorts employees alleged the company “systematically fails to pay its hourly employees for all hours worked” and repeatedly violates federal and state labor laws in California, Colorado, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Utah, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin, according to a statement. They claimed the proposed class-action lawsuit should proceed not only in Colorado but in the eight other states where the company operates.

Colorado residents Randy Dean Quint and John Linn, along with California resident Mark Molina filed the lawsuit in the US District Court for the District of Colorado on December 3, 2020, seeking class-action status. The men, who worked at Beaver Creek, CO, list traveling on company buses to and from employee parking lots, the time spent putting on company uniforms and equipment, and job training as examples of unpaid “off the clock” time for employees such as instructors, lift scanners, and lift operators. They estimate damages to all affected current and former employees would exceed $100 million. According to the lawsuit:

“Vail Resorts has exploited plaintiffs and thousands of other seasonal employees in violation of federal and state labor laws for years, and these egregious practices continue to the present. This action seeks to hold Vail Resorts responsible for its misconduct, fairly compensate plaintiffs and other similarly situated current and former Vail Resorts employees for damages preliminarily estimated to total more than $100 million.”
In its response filed on February 26th, 2021, Vail did not dispute the allegations but instead filed a partial motion to dismiss the lawsuit in all states except where the employees worked (Colorado).

“By their own allegations, plaintiffs never worked in those states, and have not established they were otherwise subject to the laws of those states. As several cases from this district hold, plaintiffs have no injury under the laws of those states and lack standing to assert claims under those laws on behalf of themselves or a putative class … plaintiffs lack standing to allege such out-of-state violations, and these claims should be dismissed.”
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I wonder how much effect this lawsuit will have on instructor pay everywhere in the US.

At two of the mountains where I've worked, we did not get paid for anything other than the contact hours with each client. Things we had to do but did not get paid for included training, standing at line-up for 10-20 minutes several times a day, attending locker room staff meetings, and getting gear on and off in the locker room, walking time to and from the locker room to line-up.

And if I showed up to free-ski on my day off I had to check in and see if they needed me. If they did, I had to go teach. This was so not good.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
Here's what WA state labor law says:

Pay Requirements

Wages

Employees must be paid for all work perform at the rate agreed upon with their employer. This rate can be an hourly wage, salary, flat rate, piece rate, commission, etc. or a combination.

When an employee is paid hourly, they must be paid for all hours worked. “Hours worked” is defined as, “all hours during which the employee is authorized or required, known or reasonably believed by the employer to be on the premises or at a prescribed workplace.”

This can include:

  • Travel time,
  • Required training and meeting time,
  • Wait time,
  • On-call time, and
  • Time for putting on and taking off uniforms or personal protective equipment (PPE).
In some cases, meal periods may also be considered hours worked.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Here's what WA state labor law says:

Pay Requirements

Wages

Employees must be paid for all work perform at the rate agreed upon with their employer. This rate can be an hourly wage, salary, flat rate, piece rate, commission, etc. or a combination.

When an employee is paid hourly, they must be paid for all hours worked. “Hours worked” is defined as, “all hours during which the employee is authorized or required, known or reasonably believed by the employer to be on the premises or at a prescribed workplace.”

This can include:


  • Travel time,
  • Required training and meeting time,
  • Wait time,
  • On-call time, and
  • Time for putting on and taking off uniforms or personal protective equipment (PPE).
In some cases, meal periods may also be considered hours worked.
I'm guessing that there's a loophole in the law that allows seasonal employees at a ski resort to be paid differently. Guessing, just guessing. And I'm noticing that it says "This can include" instead of "This includes."
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
For instance, if I was wearing the jacket out on the snow, I was covered by worker's compensation benefits in case I got injured. But if I had some time between teaching assignments and wanted to go freeski, at two of the mountains I worked at I was required to take the ski school jacket off.

Guess why.
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@liquidfeet
Not OK if the training was required to not get paid. Most of us have mandatory 12 hrs of training. We get paid our training wage which is abiut a thurd of my base pay, and we are covered by workman's comp. Any additional training is unpaid and not covered, unless we are asked to attend which then is paid and covered.

Line up we get paid. Getting dressed and walking or skiing to line up we don't get paid, but I never did as an RN when I was getting dressed in that locker room either.

Sounds like a few areas really blatantly break labor laws!
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
At my last mountain we were paid for on-snow training which was optional. Everyone always showed up since we got paid. But at the other two mountains we didn't get paid for all that optional on-snow training. We did wear our jackets and were covered by workman's comp though. But then at all three mountains I was paid for the required pre-season training. But I've never been paid for line-up time.
 

nopoleskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I wonder how much effect this lawsuit will have on instructor pay everywhere in the US.

At two of the mountains where I've worked, we did not get paid for anything other than the contact hours with each client. Things we had to do but did not get paid for included training, standing at line-up for 10-20 minutes several times a day, attending locker room staff meetings, and getting gear on and off in the locker room, walking time to and from the locker room to line-up.

And if I showed up to free-ski on my day off I had to check in and see if they needed me. If they did, I had to go teach. This was so not good.

Exactly how it was at my home bump and why I quit- it was sad though, I truly do love to teach people how to ski and love to tune people up and get them 'hooked up'.

Last year I skied Okemo- only 3x because the conditions were horrid, the crowds even worse. I had been midweeker at Okemo for almost 20yrs when Vail bought it I quit going. All my employee friends had quit, the sullen J-1 tax savings employees were rude, unfriendly and did a lousy job- the crazy lift line maze they put up every day with a MAP how to do it?!! OMG- and they were paid! but instructors were not.
Vail is now Fail to me and I will avoid any of their resorts because of their greed- seems to me the only way to fight the corporation is to not spend money there. I hope they have to pay employees $$$ based on time served in their organization.

I think ski areas must have different laws? NYS Dept of labor used to say if you're on the payroll and you are called into work you got paid min 3hr if you were sent home early. Except as Ski Instructor?? they seem to only get paid when they teach-- At Gore instructors are assigned as lift line people and seem to do other odd jobs but i believe they get paid anytime they have their uniform on teaching or herding the lift lines..
 

Christy

Angel Diva
I just learned that my friend's teenager was fired from his ski instructor job (at one of the independent ski schools at Snoqualmie) last winter after asking to be paid for all of the hours that he was required to be at work. So, while it doesn't seem this is legal in WA, it happens. The employer told him, we do it the way everyone else does it, this is how ski instructing works, we only pay for the time you teach. He reiterated his desire to be paid for all of the hours he was required to be at work, and was fired. One of the things the employer told him was, "look at all the benefits you get!" They gave him a free jacket, a discount season pass, and allowed him to sleep in a dorm room in a hut (which apparently felt quite sketchy as the hut was full of hard drinking older guys) on the days he taught. Not very lucrative IMO or to him. This kid very easily found a job in his neighborhood and made way more close to home than he would have at Snoqualmie, which is an hour's drive.
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@Christy Yikes!

I assume that as it is a smaller mountain they have multiple line ups daily? We get paid for 2 line ups a day which is a total of 30 minutes of pay for that day. If we dont get any lessons after the 1st 15 minute lineup we are free to use our time the way we want to until the next line up at 12:45. If he is not getting line up pay that seems wrong. I do know that somw of my doctor and NP friends do not get any pay for being on call. They only get paid when they work.

I suspect he may have had better, or no luck, by contacting a labor attorney first.

We fauught hard for pay increases but navigated the process very carefully and made sure not to break any laws such as using company online forums or email servers or adresses to organize. We also were sitting down and having many group and individual conversations woth dept heads, HR and upper management. A few veiled threats may have helped, but that was not our tactic. We love our mountain amd know how disposable we are even in a tight labor market. We had more candidates for employment last year than ever before!
 

Christy

Angel Diva
@snoWYmonkey it's an independent ski school at the Summit at Snoqualmie which is set of 4 very busy areas an hour from Seattle. Paying only for lineups would not be sufficient or, I believe, legal (here in WA). They've driven an hour to work and rightfully expect to be paid for the hours they are required to be physically present. What else are they supposed to do? They don't even get to ski for free. Make them clean something or do admin work if there are no clients. In such a tight labor market it's baffling anyone would operate this way or cite the fact that "this is how it's done with ski instructing" and the fact they hired a non-PSIA teenager as an instructor in the first place seems to be an example of how desperate they are.

I do know that some of my doctor and NP friends do not get any pay for being on call. They only get paid when they work.

I know people that go on call too, and so they need to be in cell phone range and in a place that it won't take them too terribly long to get to work, but they otherwise go about their lives. They aren't required to be physically at the hospital. They understand this is part of the job and their salary (these are not hourly workers) reflects it.
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Again, I think a good labor lawyer might be the one to get input on this. It would take me 2 hrs to getbto and from home to my work place. We don't even have a lodge or lounge to be in and do say comouter based work if we don't get a lesson. Not saying it is right but also not sure how they could pay us for 4 hrs a day if they don't make a dime...? I do think the 24 hr cancellation policy for students is too lenient. That is one place many resorts fail to protect their staff.
 

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