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Vail Resorts Plans $211M in capital investments for 2023

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
I think I've made it pretty plain that I'm no fan of Vail Resorts, for a myriad of reasons.. Still, I thought I'd post their plans for capital improvements in 2023.

From SAM Magazine:

SAM Magazine—Broomfield, Colo., March 10, 2023—Vail Resorts is planning $206 million to $211 million in capital investments for 2023. Projects include lift installations, a new technology rollout, integration activities, and the first phase in a multi-year project at Andermatt-Sedrun.

The Keystone, Colo., Bergman Bowl expansion is slated to be completed this year after a cease work order related to environmental impacts from construction delayed installation of the new six-passenger Bergman Bowl Express last summer. The expansion will add 555 acres of lift-served terrain to the resort.

At Breckenridge, Colo., Vail Resorts plans to upgrade the Peak 8 base area to enhance the beginner and children's experience and increase uphill capacity. The investment plan includes a new four-person high-speed chairlift to replace the existing two-person fixed-grip lift as well as new teaching terrain and a carpet lift.

At Stevens Pass, Wash., the Kehr's Chair double lift will be replaced with a new four-person lift to improve out-of-base capacity and the guest experience.

At Attitash, N.H., the Summit Triple will be replaced with a new high-speed quad.

These lift projects are subject to regulatory approvals and are currently planned to be completed in time for the 2023-24 North American winter season. Additionally, Vail Resorts plans to expand parking by more than 500 spaces across Heavenly, Calif., Mount Sunapee, N.H., and Liberty and Roundtop, Pa. A breakdown of those spaces was not provided.

At Whistler Blackcomb, B.C., subject to final permitting, Vail Resorts plans to replace the four-person high-speed Fitzsimmons lift with a new eight-person high-speed chairlift in 2023 and the Jersey Cream high-speed quad will be replaced by a new six-person high-speed lift in 2024. The Jersey Cream lift was initially slated for an upgrade this year, but Doppelmayr Canada informed Vail Resorts it cannot install both lifts this summer due to labor and resource constraints.
 

echo_VT

Angel Diva
There have been lots of lift issues this season at some vail resorts with lift breakdowns and long waits for fixes. It sounds like this article doesn’t cover them and covers improvements.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
At Stevens Pass, Wash., the Kehr's Chair double lift will be replaced with a new four-person lift to improve out-of-base capacity and the guest experience.

This is going to be a four person fixed grip. Does that seem weird to anyone else? I've ridden plenty of two person fixed grips alone or with my husband, but that seems tricky to have four people be on the ball enough to do this every chair.

Boyne is replacing 2 fixed grip doubles with fixed triples at Alpental which is equally odd especially since one of these is on the tiny amount of learning terrain there.

I have a mental image of someone pulling these out of a scrap heap somewhere after they were pulled from a fancier resort. I'm sure they WERE taken from a fancier resort.
 

TiffAlt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This is going to be a four person fixed grip. Does that seem weird to anyone else? I've ridden plenty of two person fixed grips alone or with my husband, but that seems tricky to have four people be on the ball enough to do this every chair.

Boyne is replacing 2 fixed grip doubles with fixed triples at Alpental which is equally odd especially since one of these is on the tiny amount of learning terrain there.

I have a mental image of someone pulling these out of a scrap heap somewhere after they were pulled from a fancier resort. I'm sure they WERE taken from a fancier resort.
Do you know this for certain? I hate fixed grips. Mission Ridge runs their on the fast side and that makes loading and unloading really difficult
 

TiffAlt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
They are all fast--that's why this is so iffy! Does Misson have a fixed 4 pack?

View attachment 21236
Thankfully it's only fixed 2 packs. Their 4 person lift is a high speed one. Like you I cannot imagine the logistics of getting four people coordinated on a lift going at those speeds! I try to make it a point to ask the operators at those fixed lifts to slow it down for us to at least board.

Last weekend at Mission Ridge, the lifts were going super fast, faster than the first time I visited. There was one lift (Chair 3) at Mission Ridge where the signage last weekend said they won't slow it down, advanced only - so don't ask! I dunno if it always says that, I don't recall that from last time, but maybe?

Anyway, that same weekend, some young ski racers were practicing high speed runs and they would whoop loudly everytime they got on Chair 3. It's right across from Chair 2, the 4 person high speed, so we could hear them. I wasn't sure why they were whooping exactly, but I thought to myself, if I successfully made it on to that super fast lift, I'd celebrate too!
 
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MissySki

Angel Diva
This is going to be a four person fixed grip. Does that seem weird to anyone else? I've ridden plenty of two person fixed grips alone or with my husband, but that seems tricky to have four people be on the ball enough to do this every chair.

Boyne is replacing 2 fixed grip doubles with fixed triples at Alpental which is equally odd especially since one of these is on the tiny amount of learning terrain there.

I have a mental image of someone pulling these out of a scrap heap somewhere after they were pulled from a fancier resort. I'm sure they WERE taken from a fancier resort.
We have multiple 3 and 4 person fixed grips at Sunday River. You obviously need to be more on the ball when getting off, and it varies how much from lift to lift. We have one in particular that has a seat where you better move away ASAP when you get off, or you will get hit by the chair coming around.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I have a mental image of someone pulling these out of a scrap heap somewhere after they were pulled from a fancier resort. I'm sure they WERE taken from a fancier resort.
Not necessarily a fancier resort, but probably a resort with a longer history.

Like you I cannot imagine the logistics of getting four people coordinated on a lift going at those speeds! I try to make it a point to ask the operators at those fixed lifts to slow it down for us to at least board.
As with many elements when it comes to skiing, there is regional variation when it comes to lifts. You may have noticed that in the discussion about safety bars. It's the law in some states in the northeast. Safety bars were not installed at Alta until 2010. Alta celebrated 85 years with lift-served operations in 2022-23. Fair to say that it's only in recent decades that most of the fixed-grip chairlifts were replaced with detachable high-speed chairlifts.

If you'd like a sense of why some people prefer fixed-grip lifts, try reading this discussion by some folks who mostly ski in the northeast. Or check out Liftblog.

Conveyor loading was invented to help beginners and intermediates to load fixed-grip quad chairs. When it was first introduced at Alta for the old Supreme fixed-grip triple, the advanced/expert skiers hated it. The Supreme area includes great blue groomers that intermediates ski all the time. Can't remember where that lift went, but it wasn't scrapped so is still running somewhere.

A lift can be run at different speeds. The fixed-grip quad at my home hill in northern Virginia serves a long green. Before conveyor loading was added (15 years ago?), it ran very slowly. I learned to get the liftie to slow it even more when loading with my daughter when she was learning to ski at age 4. Wasn't necessary to slow it down loading or unloading by the time she was 5.
 

TiffAlt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Not necessarily a fancier resort, but probably a resort with a longer history.


As with many elements when it comes to skiing, there is regional variation when it comes to lifts. You may have noticed that in the discussion about safety bars. It's the law in some states in the northeast. Safety bars were not installed at Alta until 2010. Alta celebrated 85 years with lift-served operations in 2022-23. Fair to say that it's only in recent decades that most of the fixed-grip chairlifts were replaced with detachable high-speed chairlifts.

If you'd like a sense of why some people prefer fixed-grip lifts, try reading this discussion by some folks who mostly ski in the northeast. Or check out Liftblog.

Conveyor loading was invented to help beginners and intermediates to load fixed-grip quad chairs. When it was first introduced at Alta for the old Supreme fixed-grip triple, the advanced/expert skiers hated it. The Supreme area includes great blue groomers that intermediates ski all the time. Can't remember where that lift went, but it wasn't scrapped so is still running somewhere.

A lift can be run at different speeds. The fixed-grip quad at my home hill in northern Virginia serves a long green. Before conveyor loading was added (15 years ago?), it ran very slowly. I learned to get the liftie to slow it even more when loading with my daughter when she was learning to ski at age 4. Wasn't necessary to slow it down loading or unloading by the time she was 5.
I am fine with fixed grips when they are run at slower speeds honestly, but at the speeds I experienced last weekend at Mission Ridge where I saw skis pop off from being dragged on the lift base at such a fast pace, numerous falls in getting off and rolling away so as NOT to get hit by the next chair unloading... seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen in this litigious country.

The high speed lifts I am used to slow at boarding time to allow passengers to coordinate - and I think it's needed much of the time, especially when you get into the higher capacity chairs.

I will read those link you provided with interest though - hopefully I will get a better understanding of the pros and cons.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
The high speed lifts I am used to slow at boarding time to allow passengers to coordinate - and I think it's needed much of the time, especially when you get into the higher capacity chairs.
What you are describing sounds like detachable chairlifts. There are three cables involved. The long "haul rope" is high-speed and goes from the bottom terminal to the top terminal. There is a separate slow cable at each end. A chair automatically detaches from the haul rope and on/off the terminal cable. I'm sure there are special terms but that's the general idea.

No question that there are advantages for high-speed detachable chairlifts. There is also addition costs for purchase, installation, and maintenance. The starting price is probably $2-3 million even for a relatively short length on straightforward terrain.

A while back Waterville Valley in New Hampshire had to decide whether new terrain on a separate peak should to served by an old, relatively slow, fixed-grip triple chair or a new detachable quad. The triple chair could be moved from elsewhere on the resort so there was no purchasing cost. The difference in cost was at least $2 million. WV is not a big destination resort. There was no justification for a detachable quad.

I am fine with fixed grips when they are run at slower speeds honestly, but at the speeds I experienced last weekend at Mission Ridge where I saw skis pop off from being dragged on the lift base at such a fast pace, numerous falls in getting off and rolling away so as NOT to get hit by the next chair unloading... seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen in this litigious country.
Lots of factors come into play when it comes to smooth operations at a ski area. Human factors can sometimes outweigh the technology factors. Lifts that are shared by beginner, intermediate, and advanced skiers can be challenging from a management standpoint, as well as from a skier/boarder standpoint.
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
Check out this swank chairlift I rode in 2019 while in St Moritz -

 

TiffAlt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
What you are describing sounds like detachable chairlifts.
Yes. I'm most familiar with the lifts at Crystal Mountain and Mt Bachelor, which are all high speed detachables, but have ridden fixed grip lifts at Snoqualmie and Mission Ridge. I never have a problem with the fixed grips at Snoqualmie - I've never thought of them as too fast. It was just that last weekend at Mission Ridge. Most of these are two seater fixed grips with no safety bars, so when they are run fast, they are accidents waiting to happen in my view. We did ride on them as long as we could ask the lift operators to slow it down for us to board.
 

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