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Vail acquires Peak Resorts

AltaEgo

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Not sure how I feel. The Vail Resorts I have been too are expensive, especially for the day skier and non pass holder... and the school programs were already in flux due to Peak. People's heads around here are going to be spinning!
 

Abbi

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I didn't renew my Okemo Pass because Vail/Epic raised the price :-(

I forget, did you approach Okemo directly either at the counter or by phone about a non-Epic Pass? I know they kept the weekday and senior pass but it was not advertised on the website.
 

nopoleskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I forget, did you approach Okemo directly either at the counter or by phone about a non-Epic Pass? I know they kept the weekday and senior pass but it was not advertised on the website.

My friend got one and it was like 459? Sadly last year I only made it over 6x so I didn't beat the pass. it's 2.5hr drive (eachway) I'm going to do some eastern safari's and go back to "chore/aka gore"
 

echo_VT

Angel Diva
Attitash has two peaks. It does have a high-speed quad to the top of Bear Peak. Last season its summit lift to the top of Attitash Mountain broke and they couldn't get it fixed for the last few months of the season. So the top of Attitash (but not Bear Peak) was inaccessible from a lift. That lift desperately needs to be replaced.
Write to vail resorts? Better yet, tweet and get your friends who visit Attitash to tweet to them too, with a specified/predetermined hashtag - It’s more effective...!
 
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echo_VT

Angel Diva
I see that, I did search this morning for new posts with “vail” and my search came up nil. It’s not clear what forum to put it in, so I placed in general skiing.

According to my search of looking at all new posts and searching for Vail, there wasn’t another thread when I posted. To be fair, it was just a half hour after this post - I thought I was putting up a new thread.
 

echo_VT

Angel Diva
Not sure how I feel. The Vail Resorts I have been too are expensive, especially for the day skier and non pass holder... and the school programs were already in flux due to Peak. People's heads around here are going to be spinning!

I think it’s good for the east local mountains who are hurting bc people are just not skiing the east and/or going out west for skiing. Peak attempted to expand Hunter and it was good bc Hunter could now handle the load from nyc more easily than in the past - but there were some major miscalculations on the new terrain they opened on the north side. It had steep pitches thru-out that were on the cusp of black when they advertised it as blue.

As long as they keep the programs like 3 passes for $99 except blackouts and other - it should be okay. I don’t see why they wouldn’t... The school programs also are with the state, it’s the easiest way to get new young skiers into the sport. If they don’t, they’re out of a business model for the long term, so growing education at the youth level is a definite priority for any ski hill. What issue were you seeing with the school programs? My daughter is in the race program - and there were local kids on the team and I didn’t notice any problem (friends/ski buddies with the several local parents and I’m sure they would have said something if there was an issue)

The question is whether Vail is going to continue the improvements that Peak started...? Will Peak still be managing them under the Vail umbrella? These details remain to be known.
 
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ilovepugs

Angel Diva
I hope so!
What are some good acquisition targets or partners for Ikon in New Hampshire and Maine? My sense is that most of the Ikon resorts are higher end (unlike Vail, which has a mixture of flagship resorts and more local, feeder type resorts.)
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
What are some good acquisition targets or partners for Ikon in New Hampshire and Maine? My sense is that most of the Ikon resorts are higher end (unlike Vail, which has a mixture of flagship resorts and more local, feeder type resorts.)
The strategy behind VR ownership and partners for Epic seems quite different than the approach being taken by Alterra with Ikon. VR bought the three midwest ski resorts a while back. Definitely not a random selection. The three brought in potential guests from Chicago, Detroit/Ann Arbor, or Minn/St. Paul. Spent $33 million for major improvements. Completely converted systems and processes. There are only three Epic partners: Telluride, Sun Valley, Snowbasin. Telluride and Sun Valley are full service resorts. Snowbasin has the same owner as Sun Valley and luxurious day lodges, but no slopeside lodging. In contrast, Ikon partners include iconic independent resorts like Jackson Hole, Aspen/Snowmass, Alta, Snowbird, plus Big Sky and all the other Boyne Resorts resorts.

Ikon already includes Sunday River and Sugarloaf. What else can you think of in Maine that draws from a major metropolitan area?

Have to think about NH. Bretton Woods comes to mind. Perhaps Waterville Valley. Only as partners. But BW is next to Attitash/Wildcat and WV is close to Loon. Perhaps being a part of an independent alliance like the Indy Pass makes more sense for them.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
The question is whether Vail is going to continue the improvements that Peak started...? Will Peak still be managing them under the Vail umbrella? These details remain to be known.
Good questions. When Triple Peaks was bought out, the entire Mueller family was out of the picture. Quite possible the same will happen with the Boyd family of Peak Resorts (father and sons).

The podcast I posted in Post #10 includes explanations for some key business integration issues that VR has faced. Presumably they learn something new every time since every situation is unique.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
The strategy behind VR ownership and partners for Epic seems quite different than the approach being taken by Alterra with Ikon. VR bought the three midwest ski resorts a while back. Definitely not a random selection. The three brought in potential guests from Chicago, Detroit/Ann Arbor, or Minn/St. Paul. Spent $33 million for major improvements. Completely converted systems and processes. There are only three Epic partners: Telluride, Sun Valley, Snowbasin. Telluride and Sun Valley are full service resorts. Snowbasin has the same owner as Sun Valley and luxurious day lodges, but no slopeside lodging. In contrast, Ikon partners include iconic independent resorts like Jackson Hole, Aspen/Snowmass, Alta, Snowbird, plus Big Sky and all the other Boyne Resorts resorts.

Ikon already includes Sunday River and Sugarloaf. What else can you think of in Maine that draws from a major metropolitan area?

Have to think about NH. Bretton Woods comes to mind. Perhaps Waterville Valley. Only as partners. But BW is next to Attitash/Wildcat and WV is close to Loon. Perhaps being a part of an independent alliance like the Indy Pass makes more sense for them.

I think Ikon has great choices for skiing in Maine, and do agree they could use another option in New Hampshire. Would have loved to see Attitash/Wildcat! Lol Overall though I’m happy with the options for skiing locations in New England, I just feel that they need to offer more unlimited skiing options, OR allow you to choose a home mountain to have more days at.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I just feel that they need to offer more unlimited skiing options, OR allow you to choose a home mountain to have more days at.
Understandable. The unlimited locations for Ikon are at resorts owned by Alterra.

I would guess that Boyne Resorts still wants to sell their own season passes, so has little reason to offer Ikon holders more days. A Boyne Gold Pass for 2019-20 includes 3 free days and 50% off additional lift tickets at any other Boyne location, including Big Sky. Essentially can have a local season pass with MCP-like benefits for a trip to Big Sky for people who live in the northeast (Loon, Sunday River, Sugarloaf) or Michigan (Boyne Mountain, Boyne Highlands).
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
....
Have to think about NH. Bretton Woods comes to mind. Perhaps Waterville Valley. Only as partners. But BW is next to Attitash/Wildcat and WV is close to Loon. Perhaps being a part of an independent alliance like the Indy Pass makes more sense for them.

Bretton Woods is owned by Omni Hotels, which owns the Mount Washington Grand Hotel across the street. Omni is a hotel business that happens to own a ski resort. They've just built a very expensive ($15 million) gondola at Bretton Woods with a new huge restaurant at the top of the gondola to handle summer weddings. The Grand Hotel is a big wedding venue, and now the mountain across the street will expand that business. Omni also owns another ski resort connected to some other hotel, but that one's small, not at all like Bretton Woods.

Omni probably isn't going to let Bretton Woods go because it's part of the draw of the hotel for both summer and winter activities. Management stayed stable when Omni took the ski area over, as far as I can tell (as a relatively new employee).
 
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marzNC

Angel Diva
Omni probably isn't going to let Bretton Woods go because it's part of the draw of the hotel for both summer and winter activities. Management stayed stable when Omni took the ski area over, as far as I can tell (as a relatively new employee).
The question was what Ikon could do to add location(s), not what other places in the northeast could be bought. For Ikon, there are plenty of independent resort partners that are unlikely to sell for assorted reasons. Since the number of days at partner resorts are limited, Omni might well benefit by having Bretton Woods on Ikon. Could only offer non-holiday days. From what I experienced at BW last winter, I can imagine someone going to check it out for a day trip using Ikon and deciding they liked it enough to return for a weekend.

Vail Resorts and Alterra seem similar as multi-resort owners of destination resorts, but they are based on different business strategies when it comes to their multi-resort passes and management of individual resorts. Vail decided long ago to have a comprehensive computer system, databases, and administration processes across all resorts. We don't talk about EpicMix much, but Alterra has nothing like it. When VR implemented RFID, it was for far more than just access to lifts without a paper ticket.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Understandable. The unlimited locations for Ikon are at resorts owned by Alterra.

I would guess that Boyne Resorts still wants to sell their own season passes, so has little reason to offer Ikon holders more days. A Boyne Gold Pass for 2019-20 includes 3 free days and 50% off additional lift tickets at any other Boyne location, including Big Sky. Essentially can have a local season pass with MCP-like benefits for a trip to Big Sky for people who live in the northeast (Loon, Sunday River, Sugarloaf) or Michigan (Boyne Mountain, Boyne Highlands).

Oh I definitely get the problem with Boyne in particular, I guess it’s just as someone who was spoiled previously with the Maxx pass add on (oh and prior to that the regular season pass at Sunday River gave at least 5 days of free skiing at all other Boyne resorts and large lodging discounts..), I’m unable to understand why they can’t figure out some option like this as they did in the past. It was so much more reasonable than to pay an extra few hundred dollars on top of your resort pass versus now where it is $600ish -over $900 for the addition. Instead of increasing my price for the season by ~30%, it’s now doubling my price.

Epic on the other hand truly gives you multiple great options in the northeast now to have one pass for a home mountain and the same pass to go west. Huge savings to be had versus what I’m doing presently, I really wish Boyne was Epic now! Are the options as vast as those that Westerners get for the same price still? No, but it’s way way better than Ikon now in this respect.

I think Ikon will need to address this somehow, unless the New England market doesn’t matter to them. Watching the huge amount of discussion on social media yesterday on this topic from east coast skiers it seems people have a LOT of opinions on it. They either love or hate it, but many that seem to hate it are people who don’t agree with all of this consolidation of resorts and therefore don’t seem to buy into these passes anyway. For those who love it, it seemed that Epic really stands out over Ikon now. I’ve previously voiced my concerns to Ikon on this topic, and I immediately messaged them yesterday to reiterate it in light of this announcement. I hope other east coasters are doing the same to put some pressure on reevaluating options. I’m sure they could care less about hearing from me, but I have to try! Lol. I mainly bought Ikon for diva west next year and some side trips, we’ll see what the following season holds though.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I guess it’s just as someone who was spoiled previously with the Maxx pass
Yep, the few years that the MAXX pass existed definitely spoiled folks in the northeast. But clearly it was unsustainable as a business model. Just as the former Snowtime (Whitetail, Liberty, Roundtop) season pass holders want to return to the days of a $400 season pass good at three locations with no blackout dates.

After sampling New England and NY skiing in the recent years, my sense is that a fair number of people who only ski at one reason based on having a season pass. Certainly felt that way at Waterville Valley and Jiminy Peak. Those are well run resorts with lots of lodging and a high speed lift to the top that makes lapping favorite runs midweek a lot of fun. They don't make headlines in media outlets though. Needless to say, most of the people at places like that aren't active on ski forums or social media related to VR or Alterra.

Folks in the mid-Atlantic have been waiting for quite a while for local access tied to a multi-resort pass. It was an obvious gap to be missing out on the DC/NoVA/Baltimore and Philly markets. There are a lot of folks who fly from there for trips out west. The MCP was very popular. Perhaps still is, although Ikon may have overtaken the MCP.

Ultimately, opinions and feelings about a multi-resort pass depend a lot on which region someone lives in and which destination resorts are their favorites. Fair to say that the addition of Peak Resorts will have little or no impact on Australians who buy either Epic-Australia or Epic-N. America. When VR bought W-B, that made a huge difference in Australia.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
VR started expanding outside of Colorado in 2002 when they bought Heavenly. Squaw Valley combined with Alpine Meadows in 2011. The owner of Squaw/Alpine is the co-founder of Alterra. The aquisition period related to Epic and Ikon has lasted a decade so far.

Below are the dates of VR acquisitions starting in 2010:
2010 - Northstar, CA (Tahoe)
2012 - Kirkwood, CA (Tahoe)
2012 - Afton Alps, MN (Minn/St. Paul)
2012 - Mt. Brighton, MI (Detroit/Ann Arbor)
2013 - Canyons, UT (50-yr lease)
2014 - Park City (PCMR), UT
2014 - Perisher in Australia
2016 - Wilmot, WI (Chicago)
2016 - W-B in Vancouver, Canada - public company
2017 - Stowe, VT (northern)
2018 - Okemo, VT (southern) - Triple Peaks
2018 - Sunapee, NH (Boston) - Triple Peaks
2018 - Crested Butte, CO - Triple Peaks
2019 - Falls Creek in Australia
2019 - Hotham in Australia

2019 - Peak Resorts - public company (to finalize before 2019-20 season starts)
17 locations in midwest, mid-Atlantic, northeast (MO, OH, IN; PA; NY, VT, NH)
including
Mt Snow, VT (southern)
Hunter, NY (Catskills)
Wildcat, NH (Boston)
Whitetail/Liberty/Roundtop, PA - former Snowtime (DC/NoVA/Baltimore)
 

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