Vaccines and Ski Plans

[ilovepugs]

So maybe what's going on in Vermont is not that awful, after all. I've learned that the governor said it's in response to the limited vaccine supply, so it could be a more realistic approach than what's going on in other states. Still, it's awfully hard to wait. And yes, I, too, was wondering how someone who's elderly would handle making an appointment online. My parents are in their 90's and NO WAY could they do it alone.

TBH that is how I’ve come to terms with the Vermont plan. In addition to the governor’s stated rationale of targeting those most vulnerable and at risk of death, I think equality of access is an important part of the governor’s plan.

I’ve been hearing about well-connected families in other states and their 20 something year old kids get the vaccine. My self-interested, lizard-brain response is incredibly mad that these people were able to get it but I’m not. I totally want the vaccine! Dr Pugs does [blah blah blah] on the front lines! (Whatever, it doesn’t matter for our purposes.) How come the spouse and children of a [blah blah not as directly impacted] physician get it first!

.... but if I take a step back and look at the bigger picture, it really would make me feel sour to live in a state where the well-connected all have access to the vaccine, (even if I would be included in that pool of people) and the less technologically adept, knowledgeable or connected don’t have a chance of getting it. These are the people that are likely to be the most vulnerable, too. So even if it sucks for me personally, I’m glad I’m living in a state that reflects my values about fairness and helping the vulnerable.

Just my two cents and personal feelings on the matter.

 

[Susan L]

I helped at least a dozen of my 75+ friends make their appointments when phase 1b opened online registration. It was easy enough to do until there are issues. They did offer phone assistance and whenever I had to call (about 5x), someone always answered immediately.
My husband’s hospital did originally include frontline worker’s immediate family members to get their vaccine because they are high exposure by association. I think it was meant for doctors, nurses, or anyone who has direct patient contact and their families. But the hospital did not plan this out well enough and vaccinated some essential but non-direct patient workers’ and their very very extended family. That caused a sudden shortage of vaccines so the hospital decided not to include families.
I am not 75+ but have health risk. The registration asked for that and suggested that I bring medical proofs to my appointment. When I was going to show the lady at check in my medical record, she said no need and she was technically not allowed to get that information. I can see how people can lie about their health and jump in line for the vaccine if they cannot verify that someone indeed have said health issues.

 

[Christy]

Mass vaccination sites are being set up in Seattle. You still need to qualify though. They'll vaccinate 330 per hour. I took the state's qualification quiz and wasn't able to answer "yes" to a single question or check a single box about all sorts of different conditions.

https://www.kuow.org/stories/seattle-mass-vaccination-site

I’ve been hearing about well-connected families in other states and their 20 something year old kids get the vaccine.

I've heard about people trying, but not succeeding. (That doesn't mean that no one has succeeded, of course). The NY Times had an article about this, though it was specific to NY.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/nyregion/coronavirus-vaccine-wealthy-nyc.html

Yet another contingent, still, was calling Dr. Goldberg’s office, inquiring about membership in his practice, operating under the assumption that they would then be fast-tracked for the vaccine. Concierge medicine involves the payment of annual fees — in Dr. Goldberg’s case, $20,000 a year — for what is essentially unlimited access to a doctor’s care. When asked how quickly someone might receive a vaccine, Dr. Goldberg is left to explain that New York State is levying huge penalties against any medical outfit that tries to game the protocols for distribution.

“What Cuomo did really protects me when it comes to these pushy concierge types because I can say that I cannot risk the fines and loss of license,” Dr. Goldberg told me.

In December, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo threatened sanctions of up to $1 million (and the revocation of the right to practice) against doctors, nurses, urgent-care providers or any others who delivered the vaccine unethically. On Monday he went further, proposing a law that would criminalize the administration of the vaccine to anyone trying to jump ahead in a line that prioritizes health care workers.

 

[BMR]

Bumping to see if anyone else got their second Moderna dose yet? I got my first one last Thursday and had a very sore arm (couldn't sleep on it for two days, but slept fine on the other side). Is it worse the second time? Any systemic symptoms the second time? If so, timing of onset? Duration?

 

[Jilly]

I thought Moderna was only 1 shot. The Canadian government sent most of ours to the north because it was easier to administrate.

 

[alison wong]

I thought Moderna was only 1 shot. The Canadian government sent most of ours to the north because it was easier to administrate.

Moderna is 2 shots - 28 days apart.
Pfizer is 2 shots - 21 days apart.

Johnson & Johnson is ONE dose. Approval pending by the U.S. FDA.

 

[marzNC]

I thought Moderna was only 1 shot. The Canadian government sent most of ours to the north because it was easier to administrate.

One advantage to the Moderna vaccine is that it doesn't require quite as extreme storage facilities in terms of cold storage.

 

[Jenny]

One advantage to the Moderna vaccine is that it doesn't require quite as extreme storage facilities in terms of cold storage.

And yet, those are the ones that got spoiled in a couple of shipments. Although one report I heard seemed to indicated that some of them actually got too cold, vs too warm. I thought that was kind of ironic.

 

[MissySki]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/29/heal...9MmlNZq8Uc6ASrbxl1p2hGVgfszxWznnP4zlf-0UJVFXs

Hmm well that’s disappointing data when held against the Pfizer and Moderna efficacies. The application of a single dose vaccine with way easier storage conditions etc. is obviously very valuable worldwide. The question is if people will be able to seek out the one they want somehow, I would kind of doubt it with how things currently stand. People could refuse it until they find what they want of course. I’m assuming people would not choose this over 95% efficacy if they have any choice in the matter. I know what my top choices are obviously, but given the opportunity to get any shot is still better than nothing. Will definitely be something to ponder as things go forward, assuming J&J gets their emergency use authorization soon.

I’m not sure I want to get vaccinated and then feel like I do each year with the flu shot where it’s such a toss up on whether you are really protected from anything or not. Will look forward to discussing further with my coworkers who work more on the clinical side of drug trials since I’m on the nonclinical side of things. Some have had very strong opinions on which shot they hope to get access to even between Moderna and Pfizer ones, so I’ll be curious to see what their thoughts are on this one.

 

[elemmac]

I’m not sure I want to get vaccinated and then feel like I do each year with the flu shot where it’s such a toss up on whether you are really protected from anything or not. Will look forward to discussing further with my coworkers who work more on the clinical side of drug trials since I’m on the nonclinical side of things. Some have had very strong opinions on which shot they hope to get access to even between Moderna and Pfizer ones, so I’ll be curious to see what their thoughts are on this one.

Thanks for sharing that article. I feel the same way, I don't think I'd turn down the opportunity for a vaccine either way, but I agree that I don't want any of the ambiguity. 66% just doesn't sound like enough, but I don't really know what the baseline is for normal vaccines.

Just curious, what seems to be the general consensus among your co-workers? Or is it pretty split on people feeling strongly one way or another?

 

[MissySki]

Thanks for sharing that article. I feel the same way, I don't think I'd turn down the opportunity for a vaccine either way, but I agree that I don't want any of the ambiguity. 66% just doesn't sound like enough, but I don't really know what the baseline is for normal vaccines.

Just curious, what seems to be the general consensus among your co-workers? Or is it pretty split on people feeling strongly one way or another?

There seems to be a preference for Moderna. There is a bias that exists due to where a bunch of them have worked previously and with whom though I think. I've come to find out that the pharmaceuticals world is VERY incestuous.. especially within the few blocks around where my company is located in Cambridge since there are so many of them there in a tiny area. Everyone has worked everywhere and often keep bringing along coworkers to new startups as they go. Some of my colleagues, including my boss, worked on mRNA technology as a platform previously at Alnylam (not for vaccines) and some of what they developed was used as a stating point by Moderna from their inception in general. So around and around it goes, but there is some additional comfort to them there due to their history. Not that they are turned off or worried about Pfizer's vaccine, totally happy with getting that one as well. They'll just say, if given the choice etc.

Right now in MA there is a lot of frustration just getting an appointment. Phase 2 appointments have opened for slots starting Monday if you are 75+. My understanding is that it's extremely difficult to get an appointment at all and people are really frustrated. So I can't imagine you'd have a choice or probably even insight into which vaccine would be available to you at a given location ahead of time.. Will be interesting to follow for sure though.

 

[Abbi]

@MissySki my city in Rhode Island got 390 doses and the appointments for over 75 year olds were gone in 30 minutes. Right now I have the feeling that even if I were home I wouldn’t get a shot until April!

 

[MissySki]

@MissySki my city in Rhode Island got 390 doses and the appointments for over 75 year olds were gone in 30 minutes. Right now I have the feeling that even if I were home I wouldn’t get a shot until April!

Someone I know was able to get an appointment for her 90 year old mom, and was so happy! She said she checked after she made the appointment and everything was gone already, so seems she got lucky. I've been assuming early summer for me, but even that might be optimistic depending how phase 2 goes. Phase 2 is a huge amount of people here. I mean under 1 comorbidity at the very end of phase 2 it even includes being overweight. That's a very large percentage of the population going by BMI. I kind of wonder who will even be left in the phase 3 "general" category as the comorbidities are not a very big filter. I think most people can find one or more they qualify under, it's really common stuff listed. Technically I could go at the end of phase 2 as well due to having asthma, I called my doctor to confirm if it would be warranted in my case and she said yes.

 

[tinymoose]

PA is currently still in Phase 1A. I've seen mention they're hoping to hit 1C by early summer, so I'm assuming we won't even see 1B until maybe March? lol And even then, I'm not sure how likely that is. I'm not eligible until 1B as a grocery worker. They did increase 1A to include 65+ as far as age, so that sorta pushed everything else back.

 

[Christy]

I think most people can find one or more they qualify under

Not me. I got nothin'. I suppose that is good, in general? And yeah, I'm hearing from quite a few people who, in the words of one of my friends, are "just overweight enough" to qualify. I'm just glad people are getting it, I'm just glad people are getting it, I'm just glad people are getting it...
(Seriously, after hearing a news story where a South Dakota farmer said that he and everyone he knows won't get it because they believe the whole Bill Gates/microchip tracking conspiracy theory...I mean, I'd heard of that but hadn't heard those words come out of anyone's mouth until that story.)

 

[NewEnglandSkier]

So I can't imagine you'd have a choice or probably even insight into which vaccine would be available to you at a given location ahead of time.

If you are booking a slot through the sites that use https://www.maimmunizations.org to book appointments you can see what vaccine type they use. Of course it is so hard to get any appointments that I suppose people might just take whatever site had an opening.
I'm not banking on getting a vaccine until at least the fall since I fall under the general population category--at least at the current rate we are going.

 

[tinymoose]

Yeah, I wouldn't qualify either under any medical conditions either.

Interestingly, I looked and the laundry list of medical conditions falls under 1A for Pennsylvania; however, asthma isn't listed on PA's list of "high risk conditions." Obviously, it's gonna vary by state.

 

[MissySki]

Not me. I got nothin'. I suppose that is good, in general? And yeah, I'm hearing from quite a few people who, in the words of one of my friends, are "just overweight enough" to qualify. I'm just glad people are getting it, I'm just glad people are getting it, I'm just glad people are getting it...
(Seriously, after hearing a news story where a South Dakota farmer said that he and everyone he knows won't get it because they believe the whole Bill Gates/microchip tracking conspiracy theory...I mean, I'd heard of that but hadn't heard those words come out of anyone's mouth until that story.)

That is a great thing not to have any of them!!

How sad that some people fall into that category. I can’t even imagine how one can seriously believe that stuff. I would like to say it’s uneducated people easily swayed by what they read on the internet, but I spoke to someone recently who has a doctor friend who is spouting all kinds of stuff like this. Blows my mind, so sad..

 

[MissySki]

If you are booking a slot through the sites that use https://www.maimmunizations.org to book appointments you can see what vaccine type they use. Of course it is so hard to get any appointments that I suppose people might just take whatever site had an opening.
I'm not banking on getting a vaccine until at least the fall since I fall under the general population category--at least at the current rate we are going.

Thanks for that information, very good to know! I haven’t gone to the site at all yet. Definitely agree that at this point people just want a slot, though that could change more when the options aren’t as equivalent as they are currently.

 

[nopoleskier]

Cuomo FINED the Ho

Mass vaccination sites are being set up in Seattle. You still need to qualify though. They'll vaccinate 330 per hour. I took the state's qualification quiz and wasn't able to answer "yes" to a single question or check a single box about all sorts of different conditions.

https://www.kuow.org/stories/seattle-mass-vaccination-site



I've heard about people trying, but not succeeding. (That doesn't mean that no one has succeeded, of course). The NY Times had an article about this, though it was specific to NY.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/nyregion/coronavirus-vaccine-wealthy-nyc.html

Yet another contingent, still, was calling Dr. Goldberg’s office, inquiring about membership in his practice, operating under the assumption that they would then be fast-tracked for the vaccine. Concierge medicine involves the payment of annual fees — in Dr. Goldberg’s case, $20,000 a year — for what is essentially unlimited access to a doctor’s care. When asked how quickly someone might receive a vaccine, Dr. Goldberg is left to explain that New York State is levying huge penalties against any medical outfit that tries to game the protocols for distribution.

“What Cuomo did really protects me when it comes to these pushy concierge types because I can say that I cannot risk the fines and loss of license,” Dr. Goldberg told me.

In December, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo threatened sanctions of up to $1 million (and the revocation of the right to practice) against doctors, nurses, urgent-care providers or any others who delivered the vaccine unethically. On Monday he went further, proposing a law that would criminalize the administration of the vaccine to anyone trying to jump ahead in a line that prioritizes health care workers.

Cuomo FINED the hospital that gave Unauthorized vaccine to First Responders without his highness' OK. He also Confiscated the remaining vaccines- some I heard spoiled so they went in the trash! I hope he finally gets his due for mandating covid postitive into nursing homes with ZERO Quarantine and then lying about the deaths. THOUSANDS Died. like over 12,000!
Now there is a 100K fine for not doing as he says in distribution.
https://humanevents.com/2021/01/08/...ting-first-responders-without-cuomos-consent/