Vaccines and Ski Plans

[elemmac]

People are in somewhat of an uproar in MA because being a "smoker" has been elevated to the list of co morbid conditions that will come up at the end of phase 2 versus the general population in phase 3. I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I guess overall a little annoyed by it truth be told.. Thoughts?

I understand where you are coming from, I'd have a hard time not being a little annoyed as well. I read an article that quoted Sununu that I can't really disagree with; its given me a bit of a new perspective on these types of decisions our government are currently navigating . Might help you look at things from a different perspective as well, and help accept some of the plans that you don't necessarily agree with.

From the article:
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"Teachers are in phase 2, and the head of the state’s largest teachers union has sharply criticized Sununu for not including them earlier. Sununu defended the state’s plan Thursday, saying it prioritizes those who are at most at risk of hospitalization and death from COVID-19.

“That’s the key to getting fatalities down, that’s the key to making sure our health care system doesn’t get overwhelmed. We may still have very high numbers of COVID for a long time. But if the hospitalization and mortality rate is down, that’s the goal, and that’s how we start opening things up,” he said."
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The goal is to reduce hospitalizations and fatalities, and protect those that are most at risk...regardless of the reason they are at risk or how important they are to a functioning society.

 

[diymom]

I'm in favour of bumping smokers up in the line for the simple reason that my brother has bean a very heavy smoker since he was 15. Like in that if he isn't smoking a cigarette, he is rolling his next one. And considering that he gets winded by a simple stroll around the block, I'd say his lungs are not in very good working order any more. So yes, I am glad that he might be able to get the vaccine sooner rather than later because he doesn't take care of himself in any sense, and we are concerned what would happen if he were to get Covid. But that said, he is a bit of a hermit and able to control his environment and exposure to the virus (more than he is able to control his smoking after 35+ years.) I do feel that anyone who has no choice and has to work outside of the home, like many teachers, should come first, but definitely put smokers at the top of the next group down along with other health issues.

 

[MissySki]

I understand where you are coming from, I'd have a hard time not being a little annoyed as well. I read an article that quoted Sununu that I can't really disagree with; its given me a bit of a new perspective on these types of decisions our government are currently navigating . Might help you look at things from a different perspective as well, and help accept some of the plans that you don't necessarily agree with.

From the article:
-----------
"Teachers are in phase 2, and the head of the state’s largest teachers union has sharply criticized Sununu for not including them earlier. Sununu defended the state’s plan Thursday, saying it prioritizes those who are at most at risk of hospitalization and death from COVID-19.

“That’s the key to getting fatalities down, that’s the key to making sure our health care system doesn’t get overwhelmed. We may still have very high numbers of COVID for a long time. But if the hospitalization and mortality rate is down, that’s the goal, and that’s how we start opening things up,” he said."
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The goal is to reduce hospitalizations and fatalities, and protect those that are most at risk...regardless of the reason they are at risk or how important they are to a functioning society.

I do agree with all of this. It's also just easy to see from the perspective of people who are scared for themselves or loved ones as well, I mean even if they are from a demographic that isn't super high risk they can still end up being one of the unlucky that gets super sick, dies, or has long-term horrible complications. From the perspective of those having to make the large scale decisions for the overall healthcare structure and economy it does make sense to use this approach though.

 

[elemmac]

It's also just easy to see from the perspective of people who are scared for themselves or loved ones as well, I mean even if they are from a demographic that isn't super high risk they can still end up being one of the unlucky that gets super sick, dies, or has long-term horrible complications.

As someone that does works outside of my home (approx. 50% of the time), and am in a business that was deemed "essential" when everything else closed down in March...I definitely understand this perspective too.

 

[MissySki]

I'm in favour of bumping smokers up in the line for the simple reason that my brother has bean a very heavy smoker since he was 15. Like in that if he isn't smoking a cigarette, he is rolling his next one. And considering that he gets winded by a simple stroll around the block, I'd say his lungs are not in very good working order any more. So yes, I am glad that he might be able to get the vaccine sooner rather than later because he doesn't take care of himself in any sense, and we are concerned what would happen if he were to get Covid. But that said, he is a bit of a hermit and able to control his environment and exposure to the virus (more than he is able to control his smoking after 35+ years.) I do feel that anyone who has no choice and has to work outside of the home, like many teachers, should come first, but definitely put smokers at the top of the next group down along with other health issues.

I smoked heavily for around 6 years, 2 packs per day. Loved it from the very first puff when I was 17, unlike the way most people start and dislike it in general.. I was immediately hooked. Even in that relatively short time my breathing started feeling like crap which was part of my motivation to quit along with a boyfriend who gave me an ultimatum . Still very happy I managed to quit when I did (I went cold turkey on December 1, 2006), it was HARD like one of the hardest things I've ever done. For a very long time I'd spend a lot of my waking hours thinking of ways I might be able to just have a cigarette and keep it a secret from everyone, looking back on that is pretty scary. To this day I still think I'd be hooked again if I had one, and I don't consider myself to have an addiction issue with any other substance I've ever crossed paths with. Well maybe fresh powder! haha

In all seriousness, hopefully he can find the strength to quit someday, he's still young enough and everyday not smoking makes a difference for the future in healing your lungs.

 

[Christy]

I get feeling a little surly over this. Jail prisoners before teachers or bus drivers? I don't love this. I definitely get the uproar about smokers. Quite honestly, I'm not even sure my parents, who are older of course, "deserve" to be vaccinated before teachers or others that play a truly vital role in society.

But I do get that the goal has to be keeping people out of hospitals, from overburdening our health care system, and so you have to do the most at risk groups first. It's just the way it has to be, so I try not to really think about how I'd do it or what "should" happen.

 

[SallyCat]

Our healthcare system and public health policy are not punitive. Healthcare treats the health issue and does not make judgements about any behavior that may have caused it.

If someone comes to the ED with trouble breathing, they get seen before someone with a broken wrist whether the person with breathing trouble smoked or not. Any other system of triage would be inhumane. Do you want a hospital to park you in a hard plastic chair for hours with your broken femur because you hurt yourself skiing, which you chose to do knowing it was risky?

Prisons have been hotbeds of COVID transmission, and that impacts prison staff and their families as well as prisoners. Besides which, the health of prisoners does not matter less than the health of anyone else.

As others have said, these decisions about priority are being made with regard to mitigating demand on medical resources.

Speculating about who "deserves" vaccines and who does not is small and mean and not a worthy endeavor. Let's be grateful that there is a vaccine and that it is being distributed as quickly as possible. Let's continue to protect the vulnerable among us regardless of the reasons they are vulnerable.

 

[diymom]

Let's be grateful that there is a vaccine and that it is being distributed as quickly as possible

Yes to that!

 

[MissySki]

Speculating about who "deserves" vaccines and who does not is small and mean and not a worthy endeavor. Let's be grateful that there is a vaccine and that it is being distributed as quickly as possible. Let's continue to protect the vulnerable among us regardless of the reasons they are vulnerable.

To me it’s incredibly small minded to get on a soap box and say that everyone is small and mean who even speculates on these issues. Really? Good grief, I feel like I’m back in Catholic school and my very thoughts are sins now.

It’s also quite easy to not think anyone else should worry about who gets a vaccine ahead of them when one has already had theirs.. You don’t have a clue as to what everyone else’s situations and worries are or deserve to be in this whole thing.

 

[SallyCat]

@MissySki I got my vaccine along with the rest of my department because we are first responders who treat COVID patients directly, usually in unstable and unpredictable environments. I am in and out of COVID-riddled nursing homes my entire shift, lifting COVID patients out of their beds and placing them on stretchers, sitting with them in the back of ambulances, and lifting them in to hospital beds. Aside from respiratory therapists I don't think anyone has the level of exposure that we do. And I endured that level of exposure for ten months before I received a vaccine, so check yourself before suggesting that I "don't have a clue" what everyone else is going through.

EDIT: Btw, I am using the same N95 mask today that I was issued in June. Not the same brand, the same mask.

Like every other healthcare provider, I treat all of my patients with the same care and compassion regardless of the reason for their injury or illness. I also understand that medical triage is about health risks, not punishing people for their behavior (behavior, by the way, that is perfectly legal and which you yourself participated in for a pretty significant amount of time.)

If you want to argue that people who smoke don't deserve the vaccine, that's your right, but don't expect you can put it out here in a public forum and not have it challenged.

 

[ski diva]

Personally, I think everyone should get it right now. There are so many circumstances, and what affects one person undoubtedly affects a host of other people, too. So yeah, prisoners who get COVID affect prison guards and their families. As do students who affect teachers and their families. As do customers who affect cashiers and their families. It all ripples out. As to who should get it first, it's such a confusing situation that I can't even begin to put my oar in the water. I do think first responders, health care workers, emergency personnel was a good call. Other than that, let's just get it out there, line everyone up, and DO IT.

I'm incredibly anxious about getting my vaccine. My parents in Florida are quite elderly and not doing well, and I really need to go see them. Without a vaccine, though I'm very, very reluctant, particularly because Florida is such a hot spot. Here in Vermont, however, it's going to be months before it's my turn. Next week they'll be opening it up to ages 75+. Then five weeks later it'll be open to those over 70. Then five weeks later they're going to 65+. Then on and on. I see pictures on Facebook of friends in other states who have already gotten their vaccines -- not healthcare workers or teachers or anything, not elderly. Just ordinary people. And it drives me nuts. This is what happens when we don't have a national plan. An entire year, wasted.

 

[Susan L]

NM has already administered 77% of vaccines received. We are in Phase 1B now - 75+ or 16+ with health risks. I just got my 1st Pfizer on Wed. No 2nd appointment available yet. 10 mins after my shot, I had this fuzzy feeling from my neck up to my face. It took about 45 mins to go away. Sore arm the next day but not bad enough to stop me from golfing.
I did get hives about 12 hours after the shot, just on my legs but it’s been over 48 hours and they are still there. Otherwise I feel fine.

 

[Susan L]

My husband got both Pfizer already. Only sore arm after 1st shot for him, but he felt sick for 2 days after the 2nd shot - bodyaches, nauseousness, chills and extreme fatigue. He took an ibuprofen at bedtime on the 2nd night and woke up completely fine the next day.

 

[MissySki]

I didn’t actually say I was for or not for anyone getting the vaccine in any particular order. That’s the difference @SallyCat I’m actually open to everyone’s point of view. Those who are respectful and don’t find the need to call anyone who doesn’t agree with them names.

 

[Tvan]

While I would like to get the vaccine immediately, I have no urgent reason to. We are still isolating at home, working from home, and having things we need delivered. I’m perfectly happy for first responders, essential workers, teachers, etc to get vaccinated ahead of me. I’ve mentioned before that I’m in a high risk category but so far, we’ve done a good job of mitigating risk, which seems sustainable for a while longer.

Do I wish we could go back out in the world and do stuff? Yes, starting with burying my father and hugging my mother. Then travelling to our new property in Vermont. Those things will happen in time. For now, we wait.

 

[CarverJill]

For anyone in NYC looking for a vaccine...Look at the city's vaccine finder website at midnight. That's when they post up the new available appointment time.

That’s when I got my appointment in San Diego California too!

 

[santacruz skier]

That’s when I got my appointment in San Diego California too!

What??? In my area only those over 75 and health care workers! Period. Lucky you! I’m jealous!

 

[newboots]

In New York, the governor said he was "forced" by the president to add anyone 65+, despite not having enough vaccine for 75+ and frontline/essential/healthcare workers. So a total of 7 million New Yorkers are eligible. They receive 300,000 doses a day. The websites crash repeatedly. The sites for testing change frequently. For example, one day all the drugstores were gone from the state's site. The state's site lists a number of large vaccination sites saying they have appointments available. They don't.

I'm 67 and reasonably tech-savvy. I cannot fathom how the average 80-year-old will make an appointment.

 

[ski diva]

In New York, the governor said he was "forced" by the president to add anyone 65+, despite not having enough vaccine for 75+ and frontline/essential/healthcare workers. So a total of 7 million New Yorkers are eligible. They receive 300,000 doses a day. The websites crash repeatedly. The sites for testing change frequently. For example, one day all the drugstores were gone from the state's site. The state's site lists a number of large vaccination sites saying they have appointments available. They don't.

I'm 67 and reasonably tech-savvy. I cannot fathom how the average 80-year-old will make an appointment.

So maybe what's going on in Vermont is not that awful, after all. I've learned that the governor said it's in response to the limited vaccine supply, so it could be a more realistic approach than what's going on in other states. Still, it's awfully hard to wait. And yes, I, too, was wondering how someone who's elderly would handle making an appointment online. My parents are in their 90's and NO WAY could they do it alone.

 

[ski diva]

Mod Note: I want to remind everyone to please be respectful of one another's opinions. We might not always agree, but let's be nice about it.