Using Junior skis as an adult...

[einnorw]

To start off I am 165cm and 130lbs beginner skill level. I originally had blackcrows captis birdie in 172cm but they were too long and such a hassle to maneuver. I ended up buying volkl blaze w 94 in 151cm and absolutely LOVED them finally realizing chin to nose height suits me best. I wanted to replace my blackcrows captis with another similar ski and I came across the BC Camox birdie Junior....It's really hard for me to find info on this ski but the review on powder7 swayed me into getting them. I haven't got them mounted yet but I have 2 sets of bindings on the way Look NX 7 (junior binding) and Look NX 10. My DIN is 5 and boot size 25.5. At first I bought the NX 7 cause I was not aware of the 10s but now i'm not sure if the NX 10s have screws short enough for junior skis. All in all im starting to have doubts. I love the specs of the camox birdie jr ski but im scared that they will flex too much or ill just sink in the snow/pow. Theres still plenty of time for me to return them although i much rather things work out and i keep them...but if im making a HUGE mistake..it must be done. The core is made of wood/poplar and it is semi cap construction...also for reference Ive been daily driving the armada arv 84 and that is also considered a tweener ski with no issues...

 

[badger]

I guess my first question is, at a beginner level why such a wide ski choice? Wide skis will not help you with skill development overall unless all you want to do is ski powder.

 

[einnorw]

I guess my first question is, at a beginner level why such a wide ski choice? Wide skis will not help you with skill development overall unless all you want to do is ski powder.

I already have a narrow skis that are 80mm and 84mm. Im building a quiver, ideally i'd use this 90mm waist ski for soft snow/pow.

 

[badger]

ok, good to know.

 

[marzNC]

It's really hard for me to find info on this ski but the review on powder7 swayed me into getting them. I haven't got them mounted yet but I have 2 sets of bindings on the way Look NX 7 (junior binding) and Look NX 10. My DIN is 5 and boot size 25.5. At first I bought the NX 7 cause I was not aware of the 10s but now i'm not sure if the NX 10s have screws short enough for junior skis. All in all im starting to have doubts.

What led you to decide to go with junior skis? I'm a petite senior skier, shorter and lighter than you are. 15-20 years ago I was an adventurous intermediate but have always bought adult boots and skis. My boots are 23.5, DIN 5 (even at over 50).

What region do you ski in the most?

 

[scandium]

I'm kind of confused as to where these sit in your quiver. The Blaze 94W are a great easy turning ski, and exactly what I would choose for soft snow and pow skill development, even for trees and soft moguls. Then the 84s are presumably still wide enough for some soft snow and crud and are fine for groomers. So I am wondering whether this is essentially trying to fill the same spot, rather than actually adding anything.

I am also thinking that if you are aiming to progress you will out ski a lot of the junior skis and binding DIN ranges. I use a DIN of 6 in powder to avoid popping out (BSL 275, weight 120lb) and so would not use a binding where the upper limit is 7, my usual bindings have an upper limit of 10-12.

 

[GladeDuchess]

I think I sort of get it @einnorw . When I was a beginner I had difficulty with skis that were supposedly "my length" and was forever crossing my tips and tails and sort of fumbly. I went to skiboards for like a year (110cm) and quickly learned better form and started linking turns and just getting confident on the slopes.

Once I started finding the limitations of the ski boards on groomers I graduated to the Volkl Blaze 94W, and still use it as my daily driver. I freakin adore that ski!

If you are loving the Blaze 94W, I just wonder what you would have to gain from the juniors skis, and think you might progress beyond them right quick, if you have not already. You may want to consider just an adult ski on the shorter end of your range with an adult binding perhaps.

 

[einnorw]

I'm kind of confused as to where these sit in your quiver. The Blaze 94W are a great easy turning ski, and exactly what I would choose for soft snow and pow skill development, even for trees and soft moguls. Then the 84s are presumably still wide enough for some soft snow and crud and are fine for groomers. So I am wondering whether this is essentially trying to fill the same spot, rather than actually adding anything.

I am also thinking that if you are aiming to progress you will out ski a lot of the junior skis and binding DIN ranges. I use a DIN of 6 in powder to avoid popping out (BSL 275, weight 120lb) and so would not use a binding where the upper limit is 7, my usual bindings have an upper limit of 10-12.

I think I sort of get it @einnorw . When I was a beginner I had difficulty with skis that were supposedly "my length" and was forever crossing my tips and tails and sort of fumbly. I went to skiboards for like a year (110cm) and quickly learned better form and started linking turns and just getting confident on the slopes.

Once I started finding the limitations of the ski boards on groomers I graduated to the Volkl Blaze 94W, and still use it as my daily driver. I freakin adore that ski!

If you are loving the Blaze 94W, I just wonder what you would have to gain from the juniors skis, and think you might progress beyond them right quick, if you have not already. You may want to consider just an adult ski on the shorter end of your range with an adult binding perhaps.

I really wanted to replace my BC Captis that was too long and i want to turn my volkl blaze 94 into a dedicated touring ski. The 84mm are armada arvs and they are my park skis. I wanted the camoxs to be my all mountain daily driver. I agree about the bindings DIN which is why I also bought the NX 10 I also plan to look at the marker squire 10 and 11 at a shop tomorrow and see if they come with a short screw kit for junior skis.

What led you to decide to go with junior skis? I'm a petite senior skier, shorter and lighter than you are. 15-20 years ago I was an adventurous intermediate but have always bought adult boots and skis. My boots are 23.5, DIN 5 (even at over 50).

What region do you ski in the most?

The powder7 review that I linked in the op is what swayed me to get them. It said they are "not quite a jr ski" which i take as them being a bit more robust than the average kid/tweener ski. Their description of it is basically "the captis but even shorter and lighter". I ski in the east coast.

 

[marzNC]

To start off I am 165cm and 130lbs beginner skill level. I originally had blackcrows captis birdie in 172cm but they were too long and such a hassle to maneuver. I ended up buying volkl blaze w 94 in 151cm and absolutely LOVED them finally realizing chin to nose height suits me best.

I really wanted to replace my BC Captis that was too long and i want to turn my volkl blaze 94 into a dedicated touring ski. The 84mm are armada arvs and they are my park skis. I wanted the camoxs to be my all mountain daily driver. I agree about the bindings DIN which is why I also bought the NX 10 I also plan to look at the marker squire 10 and 11 at a shop tomorrow and see if they come with a short screw kit for junior skis.

The powder7 review that I linked in the op is what swayed me to get them. It said they are "not quite a jr ski" which i take as them being a bit more robust than the average kid/tweener ski. Their description of it is basically "the captis but even shorter and lighter". I ski in the east coast.

That helps a lot. Especially knowing you ski in the east.

My question was because you said "beginner level" from the start. I don't know of any beginners on the east coast who talk about skiing powder or owning touring skis. However, I also know of people who call themselves "intermediates" who spend a fair amount of time off of groomers.

How did you learn to ski?

 

[Verve]

Hi @einnorw chiming in to say that you can indeed mount either the Look NX 7 or 10 on that ski and that both take Adult and Junior size boot lugs. I agree with others questions about what led you to the junior ski version - the Captis Birdie adult ski comes in shorter sizes as does the Captis. I know they claim a full wood core in their junior skis but speaking from the perspective of a shop that does a bunch of junior seasonal leases, these skis are just not made to last the way their adult counterparts do - there is less base and edge material, so fewer tunes possible before the ski is toast. It's not that brands are being intentionally cheap, they're manufacturing to a lower price point expecting these skis will be grown out of in a few seasons.

And speaking as an advanced skier who is 5'11" and 180 lbs, my daily driver ski is a 172, don't let that first way too long ski under equip yourself forever. Nose to chin length is totally appropriate as a choice.

 

[einnorw]

That helps a lot. Especially knowing you ski in the east.

My question was because you said "beginner level" from the start. I don't know of any beginners on the east coast who talk about skiing powder or owning touring skis. However, I also know of people who call themselves "intermediates" who spend a fair amount of time off of groomers.

How did you learn to ski?

I guess I just really caught the bug! This is my first season and today is my 24th day on the mountain. I’ve taken 2 lessons so far and the rest of the time I ski whenever I can. Touring seemed like a fun way to exercise so it’s for sure something I plan on getting into soon. I was told there are good beginner trails for touring in the ADKs.

 

[einnorw]

Hi @einnorw chiming in to say that you can indeed mount either the Look NX 7 or 10 on that ski and that both take Adult and Junior size boot lugs. I agree with others questions about what led you to the junior ski version - the Captis Birdie adult ski comes in shorter sizes as does the Captis. I know they claim a full wood core in their junior skis but speaking from the perspective of a shop that does a bunch of junior seasonal leases, these skis are just not made to last the way their adult counterparts do - there is less base and edge material, so fewer tunes possible before the ski is toast. It's not that brands are being intentionally cheap, they're manufacturing to a lower price point expecting these skis will be grown out of in a few seasons.

And speaking as an advanced skier who is 5'11" and 180 lbs, my daily driver ski is a 172, don't let that first way too long ski under equip yourself forever. Nose to chin length is totally appropriate as a choice.

Okay I see hmm, well I hope I progress soon enough to see the benefits of longer skis in a season or 2 before the camoxs are totally dusted. Thank you for the insight. My quiver is growing so hopefully swapping between everything depending on conditions will spare them a bit. Aside from durability my main concern is if they are going to wok at all for me or be way too soft, sink and flex too much to the point it slow me down and feel unusable.

 

[Verve]

Aside from durability my main concern is if they are going to wok at all for me or be way too soft, sink and flex too much to the point it slow me down and feel unusable.

Hard to say for sure without you trying them but I would say the profile of the Camox Jr (which uses the Captis Birdie shape, as your Powder 7 review correctly points out) isn't geared toward soft snow in particular so you might find they sink in those conditions regardless of the lighter construction.

Did you get a good deal on them? Their MSRP of $629 is basically what you'd find on an adult ski - I think the regular Captis Birdie might be $20 more and is still a fairly soft and maneuverable ski. The Camox Jr won't have the same torsional stiffness, which is what produces better edge hold - but will indeed be softer and lighter... it's always a trade off. Going from your stats and your rapid progression, I'd be inclined to nudge you toward an adult ski for your all mountain use - a higher ceiling for you as you grow and likely better resale value if that is something you're considering. You could also put a shift binding on your Volkl Blaze and use them for both resort and touring and come out on top $ wise.

 

[marzNC]

I guess I just really caught the bug! This is my first season and today is my 24th day on the mountain. I’ve taken 2 lessons so far and the rest of the time I ski whenever I can. Touring seemed like a fun way to exercise so it’s for sure something I plan on getting into soon. I was told there are good beginner trails for touring in the ADKs.

Ah . . . helps to have a local mountain in order to get mileage early on. Most of the women I know who learned as adults were lucky to get 10-20 days in their first 2-3 seasons.

The other standard question for someone just starting to buy gear . . . how did you pick ski boots?

 

[einnorw]

Ah . . . helps to have a local mountain in order to get mileage early on. Most of the women I know who learned as adults were lucky to get 10-20 days in their first 2-3 seasons.

The other standard question for someone just starting to buy gear . . . how did you pick ski boots?

I went to nicks boots fitting, he's highly regarded in S VT my boots feel great.

 

[einnorw]

Hard to say for sure without you trying them but I would say the profile of the Camox Jr (which uses the Captis Birdie shape, as your Powder 7 review correctly points out) isn't geared toward soft snow in particular so you might find they sink in those conditions regardless of the lighter construction.

Did you get a good deal on them? Their MSRP of $629 is basically what you'd find on an adult ski - I think the regular Captis Birdie might be $20 more and is still a fairly soft and maneuverable ski. The Camox Jr won't have the same torsional stiffness, which is what produces better edge hold - but will indeed be softer and lighter... it's always a trade off. Going from your stats and your rapid progression, I'd be inclined to nudge you toward an adult ski for your all mountain use - a higher ceiling for you as you grow and likely better resale value if that is something you're considering. You could also put a shift binding on your Volkl Blaze and use them for both resort and touring and come out on top $ wise.

I had bought them for only a little less than retail at $429 but a series of unfortunate events unfolded today!
I brought them into a shop to get mounted with look nx 10 bindings (which i confirmed with the sale rep were in fact junior bindings) and they drilled the screws in so far they created dimples in the base :( The shop was nice enough to reimburse me with another pair of skis that are similar in width and length to the camox birdie jr (nordica santa ana 92) and im quite pleased with them. not crazy about the top sheet though and still a bit bummed out about everything. I did get a chance to take a few laps on the camox birdie jr before i noticed the dimples and they didn't feel bad and were fun in trees. I think i would have really liked them but ah well..

 

[Verve]

Ooof that’s a bummer! The Santa Ana is definitely a more expensive ski - glad they made it right - but fit with what you like and your skiing goals is what’s most important. Hopefully they will grow on you!

 

[scandium]

I had bought them for only a little less than retail at $429 but a series of unfortunate events unfolded today!
I brought them into a shop to get mounted with look nx 10 bindings (which i confirmed with the sale rep were in fact junior bindings) and they drilled the screws in so far they created dimples in the base :( The shop was nice enough to reimburse me with another pair of skis that are similar in width and length to the camox birdie jr (nordica santa ana 92) and im quite pleased with them. not crazy about the top sheet though and still a bit bummed out about everything. I did get a chance to take a few laps on the camox birdie jr before i noticed the dimples and they didn't feel bad and were fun in trees. I think i would have really liked them but ah well..

Honestly I think the Santa Ana 92 are the better ski to see you through the progression - they do really sit in (imo) a good all mountain sweet spot, but I also get being bummed about the ski you originally wanted. My experience of previous year models is that they don't punish you overly for poor technique (vs. some of the other skis with more metal) and still reward you when you are skiing well.

 

[einnorw]

Honestly I think the Santa Ana 92 are the better ski to see you through the progression - they do really sit in (imo) a good all mountain sweet spot, but I also get being bummed about the ski you originally wanted. My experience of previous year models is that they don't punish you overly for poor technique (vs. some of the other skis with more metal) and still reward you when you are skiing well.

They fill a good spot in my quiver so I am happy about that. I do not have any skis this robust...Im looking forward to testing the speed limit

 

[Aerlind]

Honestly I think the Santa Ana 92 are the better ski to see you through the progression - they do really sit in (imo) a good all mountain sweet spot, but I also get being bummed about the ski you originally wanted. My experience of previous year models is that they don't punish you overly for poor technique (vs. some of the other skis with more metal) and still reward you when you are skiing well.

I’m on a set of the SA 93s from 2023 and find the “reward the good but don’t punish the mistakes” to be very true. I’d imagine this year’s model is similar as I don’t believe they changed a lot?

As for a speed limit….@einnorw you’ll have to let me know if you find one. I clocked mine at 50.7mph (via Garmin GPS watch) this past weekend and I think that’s about as fast as *I* can get them, being small and light myself! There’s a certain component of physics to speed…..The skis were super stable and GLUED to the snow the whole time, and I had zero feelings of being out of control and slowed/stopped exactly where and when (and how!) I planned to.