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Tune problem. Has anyone had this happen to them?

bambam

Angel Diva
#1
WOW, this thread is timely - was back in CT for the last 10 days & brought my Black Pearls to have the Phantom base treatment done, which included a tune. Back in ME this morning & I could hardly ski them - this was not the first time this has happened to me either but I never used this shop before. I made two runs using different edges to be sure but same thing & had to use other skis. Just took a look at them & each of the edges has two different angles on them. I just did the sharpie test & at the top sheet the edge appears to be 90 degrees with another different angle close to the base.

Has anyone ever seen this happen before? This is the clearest picture I can get. Going to bring them to the Sunday River shop in the morning to have them fixed
 

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bambam

Angel Diva
#2
Brought my skis to the tune shop at SR today & explained what happened. Young lady (with fabulous blue/green hair) took a look & called the other guy there over & they both agreed that the side edge did in fact have two distinctly different angles on it. She got out some tools & started to work on the edge & then said that it appears the other shop had tried to put a 2 degree bevel on top of an edge that already had a 3 degree bevel but didn’t bring the new bevel all the way down the side edge. They are redoing the edges overnight.

Keep your fingers crossed:thumbsup: that this fixes them. This is the 3rd time that this set of skis have been messed up by a bad tune but by different shops :tape:
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#4
Hey @bambam, once you find a shop that does a good job on a tune for you, keep going there. If you can ask for the same guy to handle your skis every time, do that too. That's sometimes possible in a very small shop.

These bad tunes are dangerous since the skis won't behave, and demoralizing because it makes us think we've forgotten how to ski. Plus a bad tune steals our time from the slopes and cost extra money. It shouldn't happen, but it does. Good luck!
 

bambam

Angel Diva
#5
Thanks @liquidfeet, I usually bring them to the SR tune shop for a once a year tune & then keep them touched up myself. This time I brought them to a place I’ve never been before to get the Phantom treatment & the tune was part of the deal. Now I’m afraid to let anyone other than SR touch them :noidea: :frusty:
 
#6
Sounds like your problem was solved pretty easily! Thank goodness. Tuning skis does require skill and experience, but it's another one of those jobs in the ski industry that pays very little for the depth of skill required.

Want to hear a crazy ski tuning story? The worst technician in my ex's shop once took a pair of Stocklis out to try them. He decided they had the wrong tune and took them back to the shop and "fixed" them. These were brand new skis! Then he took all the other demo Stocklis (brand new from the factory, mind you) and "fixed" them, too! Smoked a bowl whenever things got overwhelming in the shop. I am not kidding.
 

bambam

Angel Diva
#8
Sounds like your problem was solved pretty easily! Thank goodness. Tuning skis does require skill and experience, but it's another one of those jobs in the ski industry that pays very little for the depth of skill required.

Want to hear a crazy ski tuning story? The worst technician in my ex's shop once took a pair of Stocklis out to try them. He decided they had the wrong tune and took them back to the shop and "fixed" them. These were brand new skis! Then he took all the other demo Stocklis (brand new from the factory, mind you) and "fixed" them, too! Smoked a bowl whenever things got overwhelming in the shop. I am not kidding.
Yikes
 
#10
Not sure how I can tell - hope to ski them tomorrow to find out
The time that it will be most obvious that you have skis properly treated with Phantom is when you are skiing in warm temperatures. In cold snow, Phantom feels like any universal wax. When the temps are over 40 degrees and the snow is getting "sticky", that's when Phantom is far better than any wax after 3-4 runs.

The first run or to may feel a bit odd. But I don't know if that's as true for the current version compared to the previous formulations. I treated all my skis at home. In any case, just keep skiing.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#11
....
Want to hear a crazy ski tuning story? The worst technician in my ex's shop once took a pair of Stocklis out to try them. He decided they had the wrong tune and took them back to the shop and "fixed" them. These were brand new skis! Then he took all the other demo Stocklis (brand new from the factory, mind you) and "fixed" them, too! Smoked a bowl whenever things got overwhelming in the shop. I am not kidding.
I am not on this guy's side, but factory tunes are notorious for being off. New skis do not have the best tune they will ever have, and this counts even for Stockli. There are many long threads about this very issue over on SkiTalk.
 
#12
The time that it will be most obvious that you have skis properly treated with Phantom is when you are skiing in warm temperatures. In cold snow, Phantom feels like any universal wax. When the temps are over 40 degrees and the snow is getting "sticky", that's when Phantom is far better than any wax after 3-4 runs.

The first run or to may feel a bit odd. But I don't know if that's as true for the current version compared to the previous formulations. I treated all my skis at home. In any case, just keep skiing.
I agree, the warmer weather is when the Phantom really shines for me too! I actually don't feel much of a difference in regular times, it's just that I don't need to wax my skis constantly like I used to haha. I always had my skis waxed pretty well already, and could tell if I slacked off so that part is less effort now which is nice. I do wish they helped me on cat tracks, but I am quite slow on them still.. I mean not that I have an issue I glide just fine, but my classes tend to race each other on this one long cat track often and joke that the last one to a certain spot has to buy a round of beer. I'm almost always last! My instructor insists a big factor is weight and I'm usually lighter by far than everyone I'm with in that group, but he may just be trying to make me feel better lol.

I will say though that the person who tunes my skis insists that I should still be waxing more regularly because it provides protection to the bases even if the glide is fine with Phantom. He calls it "lazy man's wax". I have no idea if he's alone in his thinking on this or if it is prevalent among experts in the field, but he has mentioned it each time I go in when I remind him they are Phantomed.
 
#13
I am not on this guy's side, but factory tunes are notorious for being off. New skis do not have the best tune they will ever have, and this counts even for Stockli. There are many long threads about this very issue over on SkiTalk.
Does that include changing the bevels? I should have been more clear - he changed the bevels on all the new Stockli demo skis.

Related: when I last picked up new skis, I told the shop I wanted a 1,2 tune. The tech was incensed. He said they had the best time they would ever have, still in the wrapper.

I’ve been spoiled as far as tuning goes. Reading our recent stories I’m afraid to take my skis anywhere else.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#14
[QUOTE="newboots, post: 430448, member: 7287"]Does that include changing the bevels? I should have been more clear - he changed the bevels on all the new Stockli demo skis.

Related: when I last picked up new skis, I told the shop I wanted a 1,2 tune. The tech was incensed. He said they had the best time they would ever have, still in the wrapper.

I’ve been spoiled as far as tuning goes. Reading our recent stories I’m afraid to take my skis anywhere else.[/QUOTE]
Yes. It's a common belief, a myth, that the factory tune is the best. They are doing thousands. Quality control just isn't a priority. Many picky skiers get new skis checked over thoroughly before skiing them. A non-flat base is often a problem, as are inconsistent edge angles, both base angle and side angle.
 

lisamamot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#16
I am not on this guy's side, but factory tunes are notorious for being off. New skis do not have the best tune they will ever have, and this counts even for Stockli. There are many long threads about this very issue over on SkiTalk.
Yup, Mike (SkiMD) checked my Stockli Stormrider Motion 85 (new - just out of the wrapper) and one ski was fine, but the other was not flat. Factory fresh on them before he mounted the bindings I brought.
 
#17
Yup, Mike (SkiMD) checked my Stockli Stormrider Motion 85 (new - just out of the wrapper) and one ski was fine, but the other was not flat. Factory fresh on them before he mounted the bindings I brought.
I think in this case he decided that the factory SPEC bevels were not the best and chose to change them on all the skis. I certainly wouldn’t put it past him. It wouldn’t have been the worst thing he did. But I may have misunderstood. I didn’t communicate it very well!
 

contesstant

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#18
I think in this case he decided that the factory SPEC bevels were not the best and chose to change them on all the skis. I certainly wouldn’t put it past him. It wouldn’t have been the worst thing he did. But I may have misunderstood. I didn’t communicate it very well!
I was reading on SkiTalk that the edge bevel on Stockli free ride skis is 1.4. So, that could definitely feel weird.
 
#19
I will say though that the person who tunes my skis insists that I should still be waxing more regularly because it provides protection to the bases even if the glide is fine with Phantom. He calls it "lazy man's wax". I have no idea if he's alone in his thinking on this or if it is prevalent among experts in the field, but he has mentioned it each time I go in when I remind him they are Phantomed.
That's a common feeling among some old school ski techs in New England. Partially because they have relatively little knowledge about DPS as a ski company. DPS skis are primarily geared to powder or back country touring in the western mountains. One tech I talked to about Phantom near Boston had to admit he was a snowboarder and had never heard of DPS.

Aspen Ski Co. started treating all of their demo skis the first season that Version 2 was available. The next season they treated all of their rental skis. Presumably they were pretty clear that it works well for recreational skiers who have little interest in waxing their own skis.
 
#20
Skis back to normal after having them retuned at the Sunday River shop - thank goodness :yahoo: Seemed to glide pretty easily - I did feel a little dragging on some sloppy snow at the bottom of Tempest as it was sunny & warm this morning, but once we have more warm springlike weather, I guess I will get a better idea as to whether or not the one Phantom treatment was correctly done
 

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