Question: Tips/Tricks/"Things I've Learned The Hard Way" for AT Skiing?

[volklgirl]

I know we have several veteran ATers on the site, so this total back/slack-country newb is looking for any advice you may have gained through experience.

I'm starting out with new slackcountry that being opened at my local resort, an area once open for regular skiing served by T-bars and rope-tows that has been closed for 20 years or more. I recall it being gently rolling solid intermediate midwest terrain (Colorado greens?) way-back-when.

I think I've got most of the gear covered - so far I have Garmont Axon boots, Kikus with Dukes, adjustable poles, skins, and a pack. I doubt that this terrain is steep enough to be avalanche prone, but a shovel, probe, and beacon are on my Christmas list.

So.....what wisdom can y'all impart to make this learning experience even the least bit easier?????

 

[snow addict]

https://www.avalanche.net.nz/education/Online-Avalanche-Course/Route-Finding-Exercises.asp
I don't think the gradient is enough to avalanche but you should get a habit if carrying the kit with you. Also, practice with it often if you are skiing with a partner (or if you have a DVA park with buried transceivers). I am not very experienced with skinning - only did it twice but I decided that this season if conditions are meh for off-piste, if we get long spells of dry and sunny weather I would be skinning uphill in the resort rather than taking lifts and doing lapses on piste

 

[jellyflake]

Have you ever skinned?

 

[volklgirl]

Thanks for that link!! Awesome.

@jellyflake - Nope, but there's a first time for everything, right? I've downhilled and XC'd (waxable and waxless), but no skinning yet. That's why I'm hoping to get some tips.

 

[Pequenita]

Practice and repetition. Snow science aside, it takes time to figure out what works for you. Different people carry/fold their skins differently, I've had different instructors/guides/"wiser" ski partners advise different methods for kickturns on steep terrain, and so on. For the stuff that affects only your efficiency and not safety, I figure just do what works best for you

Here are some ideas: https://www.mountaineersbooks.org/Backcountry-Skiing-P465.aspx

My only universal advice is to take an AAIRE course and to keep your skis on when peeing if in deep snow.

 

[jellyflake]

(…) but there's a first time for everything, right?

Right

Apologies, I did not mean to be rude or so. Just thought I'd ask so I do not bore you to death with my (only intermediate?) AT experience.

Just some thoughts:
- make sure you have enough water with you & make sure it won't freeze & also bring a small snack
- you will sweat, so wear thin/light stuff but make sure you bring something warm for the downhill bit
- bring a 1st layer in your backpack so you can change at top
- don't lift your feet while walking, make sure skins/skis touch ground all the time (this is a mistake that a lot of people seem to make - it just eats energy to lift the skis but does not bring any value)
- when you take the skins off take time to put them together carefully. If you do that in a rush you will pay for it when you try to take them out again…
- when you are at home make sure you dry your skins carefully

I am sure you'll enjoy - have fun!

Best Regards
Jellyflake

 

[linum]

Right

Apologies, I did not mean to be rude or so. Just thought I'd ask so I do not bore you to death with my (only intermediate?) AT experience.

Just some thoughts:
- make sure you have enough water with you & make sure it won't freeze & also bring a small snack
- you will sweat, so wear thin/light stuff but make sure you bring something warm for the downhill bit
- bring a 1st layer in your backpack so you can change at top
- don't lift your feet while walking, make sure skins/skis touch ground all the time (this is a mistake that a lot of people seem to make - it just eats energy to lift the skis but does not bring any value)
- when you take the skins off take time to put them together carefully. If you do that in a rush you will pay for it when you try to take them out again…
- when you are at home make sure you dry your skins carefully

I am sure you'll enjoy - have fun!

Best Regards
Jellyflake

Those are great tips Jellyflake, thanks! I'm a complete backcountry novice and I am hoping to get out for my first skinning trips this season. Would probably have taken me a while to figure out to not lift the skis, but slide ...it makes so much sense when you say it!

 

[volklgirl]

Nope, not rude at all! I'll echo the above "great tips" comment. I figured on the water/snacks/layers from my experiences with snowshoeing/XC/hike-to skiing, but the skins tips were just the type of stuff I was looking for. Do you just fold them together, or do you use a cheater layer?

 

[Pequenita]

Nope, not rude at all! I'll echo the above "great tips" comment. I figured on the water/snacks/layers from my experiences with snowshoeing/XC/hike-to skiing, but the skins tips were just the type of stuff I was looking for. Do you just fold them together, or do you use a cheater layer?

I use a cheat sheet. It just makes life easier for me, and I'm not counting micrograms, so the weight isn't an issue. Different folding methods I have seen = fold in half; fold both ends in towards middle. Reasons this may make a difference: you have short arms and it's windy. The multifold keeps things compact.

 

[Kimmyt]

Pequenita's protip about the peeing is KEY. Also, make sure your aim is true or else you have to deal with the dreaded yellow ice on your bindings. Le sigh. Dudes don't have this problem.

I use skin savers (a plastic meshlike thing you put on the sticky side of the skins), they came with my skins, I cut the saver in half lengthwise and fold each skin around the skin saver as I peel it off from the ski so that there is less flopping around. Then I roll the pair up into a ball and put them back in the bag. I'm really not concerned about weight and my skins stay nice this way. When I get home I try and take them out and lay them somewhere to dry for an hour or so.

Another tip that I'm slowly getting better at is having a checklist of things to switch over/check before you descend. The first couple times the skiing was awkward because I either forgot to put my boots back in ski mode or my poles were the wrong height.
So I:
1) take off skins and store, switch gloves if necessary (I wear thin gloves for the up because I get hot, then by the time I take off my skins my hands are cooled down and I put on my ski gloves before I get too cold).
option 1a) eat/drink something
2) put on helmet if I'm wearing it
3) switch binding mode
4) boots go from walk mode to ski mode (!!!)
5) change pole height if necessary.

 

[lynseyf]

Don't go with people on super light, short skis and dynafit bindings if you have Dukes and Kikus ;)

I've only toured a couple of times but the first few were just me and my boyfriend and we set off way too fast, slow and steady wins the day.

I like those little head band things you get that cover your ears as I seriously overheat but can get sore ears if they are too cold so I wore one of them on the way up then put a warm hat on when I got to the top.

 

[volklgirl]

Wow, guys. Thank you so much!!

 

[BackCountryGirl]

Did anyone say Keep Your Skins Dry! Water makes it impossible for the glue to grip. Learn how to rip them off while standing without dropping them into the snow. That way, if you're doing several quick ascents and descents in a row (hey, I'm an easterner and we are vertically challenged), you will be sure they'll stick again. Also, before skinning (i.e., if you're hiking a ways first where there isn't any snow) or on descents, store your skins on their mesh, folded, and in a pocket close to the body to keep them warm.

I always have a "big puff daddy" jacket in the top of my pack so that when I stop for lunch or to pee or to drink, I won't get cold. Moisture management is so key to prevent hypothermia that I really dress lightly to skin; the flip side of that is that I will quickly freeze if I stop.

That leads to: know the signs of hypothermia so you recognize it in others.

Learn how to use a map and compass. Not so crucial for side piste excursions, but really important for those bushwacking ones. You don't want to pick the steepest uphill when there are other options.

If you have a winter neoprene hydration bladder sleeve and a winter valve, great. If not, use a water bottle with a sock but store it upside down so the air is not next to the opening.

Have a little gear repair kit -- safety pins, duct tape, pipe clamps for pole repair, skin wax
Have a first aid kit -- the usual ointments and bandages and moleskin, but also a candle, safety matches, headlamp, space blanket, whistle, signaling device and all the avi stuff (which only is useful if you know how to use it).

Bring a knife.

 

[volklgirl]

Oh crap. BCG, you just reminded me I left my little waterproof survival kit and multi-tool in my kayak when we hoisted it up into the rafters in the garage for the winter. Guess I need to go dig my stuff out of it (sounds like the waterproof stuff sack it's kept in would be a smart thing to have as well).

 

[BackCountryGirl]

Oh, VG, sorry. I should add that all of the things that I posted about are the result of having learned the hard way!!! Except for hypothermia. I've never had it but I was in a back country clinic and one of the women began to really weird out and had to be skied out by someone else. She was falling and disoriented and clearly "bonking."

 

[volklgirl]

I've witnessed heat stroke and sugar crashes, but never hypothermia. Just climbed up and got my stuff out of the kayak hatch and have already packed the first aid kit, survival kit, and multi-tool in my avy pack. I need to pick up a new whistle/compass/magnifying glass combo as I seem to have lost the one I bought this summer.

 

[linum]

I just had my skinning premier this week and went for a hike in to the woods and had a great time while also staying warm on one of the 0 degree days we've had lately. This was mainly a practice run and I ended up skinning the entire way as it was really to little snow to actually ski out, but I already got some use of the advices above, so thank you!

One thing that weirded me out a bit was that I felt like I was slipping backwards quite a bit on steeper pitches and had to side step it instead. It was a mix of loose snow and some ice. I thought about crampons as a solution, but it seems a bit extreme. I have black diamond nylon skins that cover the entire base aside from the steel edges... Any tips/thoughts on this?

 

[Pequenita]

I could be totally wrong and defer to those more experienced, but there are times when the pitch is going to be steep enough to slide backwards, so to the extent that you can, you either side step or choose a different angle approach.

 

[linum]

Thanks, this was my thinking as well, but it seemed like the guys I was with had less of an issue so I thought I'd ask.

 

[volklgirl]

I'd think the difference in weight between you and "the guys" may be the key if you were having problems and they weren't?