Tiny little feet: searching for 22.5s

[marzNC]

I can try the place in Ithaca. Thanks so much! The experience I described, though, was at the Ski Company in Dewitt. Maybe with John instead of Jim, but same place.

The recommendation for Cyauga comes from a long time skier who considers Greek his home mountain. I didn't mention anything about your requirement for small boots. In general, calling first and talking to the boot fitter is a good idea.

As you've learned, finding a boot fitter isn't easy when not living in what I call "ski country." Even when there is a pretty good boot fitter, there is the issue of inventory. It took me years to discover that the local ski/surf shop in a small town near me is owned by a man who is both an experienced boot fitter and someone who has a much bigger inventory of "new old stock" than I would've guessed from the size of the store. Both my current and previous boots were from 2+ seasons before I went shopping. He stocks up on models he thinks are really good, especially when the brand decides to phase them out.

While I've bought boots locally, when I decided to use Intuition liners after the stock liners on my previous boots packed out, I did that at a destination resort since he doesn't handle any after market liners. However, recently I went in to ask about replacement toe/heel pieces and he had them available.

When the stock liners (heat moldable) of my current 3-buckle boots packed out, I did some research during a trip to a destination resort out west about whether or not to move my Intuition liners from my previous 4-buckle boots. For that sort of knowledge, I had to be in ski country. I found a boot fitter who not only worked with Intuition liners, he also worked with Zipfits. Plus he used Intuition liners in his own boots.

 

[marzNC]

He said I need a boot dryer. Is this true?

For me, buying a big boot dryer when I was mainly driving with my kid (and usually a friend of hers too) was a very worthwhile investment. I could not only dry boots but also gloves/mittens.

My feet sweat even when it cold, meaning in the teens or colder out west. I travel with small dryers that go in each boot. While removing and replacing liners is worth knowing how to do, for some boot/liner combinations it's a pain to do often.

For more about boot dryers:
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/boot-dryer-recommendations.15540/

 

[jumperlass]

The recommendation for Cyauga comes from a long time skier who considers Greek his home mountain. I didn't mention anything about your requirement for small boots. In general, calling first and talking to the boot fitter is a good idea.

As you've learned, finding a boot fitter isn't easy when not living in what I call "ski country." Even when there is a pretty good boot fitter, there is the issue of inventory.

I really respect the developed expertise bootfitting seems to require. I think what I’m finding is that what I’d like is to go from my current beat-up ex-rental boots directly to boots I’d be happy to use for the next five or ten years. And maybe that’s not in the cards this spring or next fall. I’m not yet a person who takes destination ski trips.
I want boots that fit me well enough that my skiing can improve. I want to enjoy all the blues and some of the blacks. I want boots I can wear 2-6 hours at a time for twenty visits to Greek per season.
I will try the Ithaca shop (a million years ago I lived in Ithaca, but I wasn’t a skier then, really). If they can’t help me, I can try them again in the fall. Maybe Berger’s in Binghamton. Maybe the Dewitt shop again but asking for the right person. And if none of that works, I can look for the tecnicas online. They’ll be enough for what I want right now. If we become people who fly to CO or CA to ski, I will also be a person who takes a day trip to Vermont to get bootfitting done.

 

[contesstant]

Great news! This boot fitter is awesome. He ordered two sizes of boots for me, fit me to them etc. Turns out I AM a 22.5. Plenty of room there, surprisingly! Got a real pair of ski socks, and some new plate on my bindings.

Apparently my skis are only set at a 6 currently but should be closer to 7.5 for my skill level but he was worried since they were so low before that I might hurt myself so didn't go up with them. Not 100% sure what he was referencing bit I know they haven't been adjusted in 3 years since I started skiing.

Can't wait to ski tomorrow! I hope it is good and I like the boots!!

He said I need a boot dryer. Is this true?

So, what boot did you end up getting?

I can't imagine not having a boot dryer, but I ski a lot of back-to-back days.

 

[MontanaMom]

He is referring to a standard number related to the release of your bindings if you’re in a twisting fall (DIN). The number is based on your boot sole length (shorter lengths correlate to higher DIN), weight/height (heavier = higher DIN), and how aggressively you ski (more aggressive = higher DIN).

I view boot dryers as a personal thing. If you sweat a lot in your boots, or ski in wet conditions, or otherwise get moisture in your boots, then they make a lot of sense.

Have fun tomorrow!

But why would a higher DIN hurt you?

 

[Tennessee]

Well... if your skis don’t release in a bad fall because the DIN is set too high you can definitely get hurt. Mine are set on 6 and that works for me and I weigh 165 and ski everything.

 

[marzNC]

I really respect the developed expertise bootfitting seems to require. I think what I’m finding is that what I’d like is to go from my current beat-up ex-rental boots directly to boots I’d be happy to use for the next five or ten years. And maybe that’s not in the cards this spring or next fall. I’m not yet a person who takes destination ski trips.
I want boots that fit me well enough that my skiing can improve. I want to enjoy all the blues and some of the blacks. I want boots I can wear 2-6 hours at a time for twenty visits to Greek per season.
I will try the Ithaca shop (a million years ago I lived in Ithaca, but I wasn’t a skier then, really). If they can’t help me, I can try them again in the fall. Maybe Berger’s in Binghamton. Maybe the Dewitt shop again but asking for the right person. And if none of that works, I can look for the tecnicas online. They’ll be enough for what I want right now. If we become people who fly to CO or CA to ski, I will also be a person who takes a day trip to Vermont to get bootfitting done.

Completely understand. Read on for the story of my first good boots after my kid started skiing. I'll spare you the story of why I bought boots, skis, and poles for $100 back in the early 1980s.

My first 4-buckle boots replaced cheap boots I bought in the 1990s, called "rear-entry boots." When I did my first free demo day in the NC mountains, a few reps laughed at my 10yo boots. There is more than one ski shop near that resort. Since they were having early season sales I went in to take a look. Knew nothing about boot fitting. Got lucky since that is a reputable shop with more than one location. One of the owners (older man) took care of me. Had me try on several different options. All I wanted was better boots for skiing with a young kid and her friends at tiny hills in the southeast with 100% manmade snow and a 2-3 month season. My street shoes are 7-7.5 and my feet aren't particularly complicated. Walked out almost two hours later with basic recreational boots and a generic footbed ($25) for under $300. Way better than my old boots or rental boots. We were skiing 10-14 days a season.

I had one hot spot. Went back to where I bought them but they didn't know how to fix the shell. Eventually got that fixed by a ski shop at Alta during my first adults-only trip to SLC. Took them 5 min and cost $25.

I used those boots for four seasons. Changed out liners a couple times. Nothing fancy, just replacement stock liners for $25. By then I'd found my local shop with the help of SkiSE, the first ski forum I joined. My local friend used those boots later on when her kids started skiing. Wasn't a perfect fit, but with good liners they were way better than rental boots. I knew enough then to know the fit was decent. I also had skis she could used . . . bought used.

 

[marzNC]

But why would a higher DIN hurt you?

Well... if your skis don’t release in a bad fall because the DIN is set too high you can definitely get hurt. Mine are set on 6 and that works for me and I weigh 165 and ski everything.

DIN settings are determined by a table that is based on what bindings are used, and the height and weight of the skier, along with Type. Beginners are set using Type I, most people use Type II, while advanced or aggressive skiers use Type III. Some ski shops have Type III+ as an option. Changing type usually changes the DIN setting by 1.

For an intermediate, there is no reason to set the DIN higher than Type II. Type I can be fine. But if someone is popping out of their bindings too often, it's called pre-release. That can be very annoying. I had that happen with a tween I was skiing with recently. Getting back into those demo bindings was hard. I ended up deciding that changing the DIN was the better approach. Can always sign off on a setting that differs from the table recommendation.

I'm petite and over 50. DIN settings go up at age 50, regardless of ability. When I turned 50, I started putting down Type III instead of Type II when I rented skis.

For more than you need to know about bindings:
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...now-about-bindings-alpine-aka-downhill.24028/

 

[MontanaMom]

So, what boot did you end up getting?

I can't imagine not having a boot dryer, but I ski a lot of back-to-back days.

The Atomic Hawx Ultra 95. 2021 model. I'm really hopeful they are what I expect and make the difference I anticipate. He said they should make a big difference in my Skiing and that I should be careful my first few runs because my boots are now more responsive. And not to crank down the foot/toe area like I was my other boots. These are a 22.5 and the last is a 98mm (smaller at this size) my old boots were old so packed out and 23.5 with a 102mm last. I'm so excited to try them!

He gave me so much boot care advice! He only had to heat the liners but I know there is work he can do if he needs to.

I'm Skiing 3 days in a row this weekend, night Skiing tonight (so if they're uncomfortable I'll know after a short night of skiing rather than tomorrow when we're hitting a bigger resort with more challenging Skiing.) Then Discovery tomorrow, then back to our local resort for a half day because my son has a lesson.

 

[MontanaMom]

DIN settings are determined by a table that is based on what bindings are used, and the height and weight of the skier, along with Type. Beginners are set using Type I, most people use Type II, while advanced or aggressive skiers use Type III. Some ski shops have Type III+ as an option. Changing type usually changes the DIN setting by 1.

For an intermediate, there is no reason to set the DIN higher than Type II. Type I can be fine. But if someone is popping out of their bindings too often, it's called pre-release. That can be very annoying. I had that happen with a tween I was skiing with recently. Getting back into those demo bindings was hard. I ended up deciding that changing the DIN was the better approach. Can always sign off on a setting that differs from the table recommendation.

I'm petite and over 50. DIN settings go up at age 50, regardless of ability. When I turned 50, I started putting down Type III instead of Type II when I rented skis.

For more than you need to know about bindings:
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...now-about-bindings-alpine-aka-downhill.24028/

I'm 5'4 and about 145-150 and my skiing is about a level 6-7, so he said should be type 3 but I've been Skiing with them at 4 or 5 (I can't remember). I don't pop out so must not be pushing that hard. But they do pop off every time I fall which thankfully isn't often, however usually fall hard when I do.

Thanks for the info. I understand DIN I guess I just didn't they why a higher number would hurt me. But I guess I see it.

 

[jumperlass]

So, if you’re not going to get out in them,

I mean, I hope to hit the local slopes another 3-4 times this year, but...it'll be for two hours here, three hours there. I can stick with what I have for that long. I'd hoped to try new boots and see how they feel in the soft spring snow, but I can wait. It's not like I haven't been enjoying my outings this year, in my boots.

 

[marzNC]

I'm 5'4 and about 145-150 and my skiing is about a level 6-7, so he said should be type 3 but I've been Skiing with them at 4 or 5 (I can't remember). I don't pop out so must not be pushing that hard. But they do pop off every time I fall which thankfully isn't often, however usually fall hard when I do.

Thanks for the info. I understand DIN I guess I just didn't they why a higher number would hurt me. But I guess I see it.

Please don't confuse Type with DIN. Initially you were probably set for Type I so a relatively low DIN. Type is given in Roman numerals (I, II, III) partially to make it different from DIN. For adults, nothing wrong with a lower setting. My ski buddy who is a physician sets his DIN one lower than the table. He likes to ski bumps and would rather pop a binding when/if he falls.

Modern day bindings are designed to avoid at least some injuries. But only if they pop open, which only happens in certain situations. Before the invention of the first "safety binding" there were a lot more leg injuries since boots and skis didn't come apart once the binding was closed.

I highly recommend the Vermont Ski Safety Tips for Knee-Friendly Skiing. There are ways to fall that will decrease the likelihood of a knee injury. As with ski technique in general, what to do may seem counter-intuitive.

https://vermontskisafety.com/research/tips/

 

[marzNC]

@jumperlass : got a couple of boot fitter suggestions for you from the regional ski forum that covers skiing in NY. Best to at least call soon. They will be shifting over to bikes within a few weeks.

Cayuga Ski and Cycle in Ithaca, ask for Jeff or make an appointment online
Ski Company in Dewitt, ask for Jim Longo (not sure if still there)

Apparently Jeff is the owner of Cayuga. He may be the only really experienced boot fitter.

 

[Tennessee]

DIN settings go up at age 50, regardless of ability.

Just in case this confused anyone, I know @marzNC meant to say DIN settings go DOWN one number after age 50.

 

[marzNC]

Just in case this confused anyone, I know @marzNC meant to say DIN settings go DOWN one number after age 50.

Oops. Hard to proofread within 15 minutes.

 

[jumperlass]

Apparently Jeff is the owner of Cayuga. He may be the only really experienced boot fitter.

I got an appointment for tomorrow! I'm so excited. I have my first pair of thin wool ski socks as of this week, too, so I'm all set for this.

I'm gonna get new boots (in the next 10 months)!

 

[newboots]

@jumperlass - Everything you wrote sounds great! Except that, if you want boots that will last you the next 5-10 years, don't just order something online. I'm so glad you have an appointment in Ithaca!

@MontanaMom - Regarding boot dryers, I am a complete wimp about taking out my liners. I have arthritis in my hands and this newly painful issue with my wrist, for starters, and I'm always afraid I won't be able to get them back in right. I'm afraid due to experience with this! I'm not the only one - others have mentioned it. But if there is actually water inside, I will bite the bullet and take them out. Otherwise, I'm using boot dryers. I have the travel Dryguy boot dryers; they were about $30.

The DIN number should be the sweet spot, where your bindings don't release when you're not falling (happened to me once in spring snow) and where they DO release when you're having a twisting fall.

 

[jumperlass]

@jumperlass - Everything you wrote sounds great! Except that, if you want boots that will last you the next 5-10 years, don't just order something online. I'm so glad you have an appointment in Ithaca!

No, if I have to order online with the "at least it's a huge step up!" boots, I won't expect them to last 5-10 years. I hope my Ithaca appointment leaves me well set up to ID what I need this fall. I'm open to investing some cash in my gear, now that this is a family pastime we all enjoy. But if it comes down to it and I still have no new boots in the fall, I'll look for those Tecnica boots (currently $210 at sunandski.com) as good enough to get me through a few seasons while I figure out better options.

 

[Jilly]

You marry your boots!! And, if your feet start to hurt, you will not be out there skiing. So spend money and time on your boots. You'll be happier for it.

And this is the voice of experience that many of us have gone through.

 

[jumperlass]

And this is the voice of experience that many of us have gone through.

I’ve read so many sagas of boots on the forum! You all showed me to be dubious about the pull-them-off-the-shelf maybe-ok pair. If I hadn’t read all the advice, I probably would’ve just bought them and been done! So thanks to all who’ve shared their experiences and made me at least notice that I hadn’t actually had a boot fitting. The divas sharing their voices of experience are a real gift to us inexperienced folks.