Technique question for firm groomers

[volklgirl]

Personally, I feel a completely carved turn is really only a possibility as an exercise on mellow terrain. Even top level racers don't make completely clean carved turns....they slarve, or scarve, or even make directional changes in the air between edge changes. In real-life skiing, the fully carved turn is basically a myth. It CAN be done, but WHY????

 

[Tvan]

I love this thread! Lots of useful information, and it just so happens to be pertinent to what I am working on right now!
On that note, I pulled out my Kastle LX82s today, since my Kenjas are kind of skiing me this season, at my new lighter weight. Boy, a full-camber, softer ski is a real hoot! The tails on the Kastles won't let me cheat at the ends of my turns. I'm going to ski them a LOT more to work on my skills.

Wow. I never thought about this. I skied my Volkl Charisma's last weekend and it was fun, but I really felt like the skis were skiing me. I never thought about the fact that I'm now 30 pounds lighter than I was when I got them. I'm going to pull out my Atomics this weekend and see how those feel.

Thanks, @contesstant - you gave me something to experiment with!

 

[Skisailor]

Yes, I think that is the case. I think the mix of steering and carving was what @Ursula referred to as blending. I think unless one is in a lesson doing railroad tracks drill or pivot slips one is blending steering and carving at various proportions according to terrain/conditions etc. That is my understanding anyway.

Actually Ursula was talking about blending edging and leg rotation - not carving and steering. In her approach - carving is at one end of the spectrum, pivot slips are at the other end, and everything in between is steering (blending these skills).

 

[Skisailor]

Personally, I feel a completely carved turn is really only a possibility as an exercise on mellow terrain. Even top level racers don't make completely clean carved turns....they slarve, or scarve, or even make directional changes in the air between edge changes. In real-life skiing, the fully carved turn is basically a myth. It CAN be done, but WHY????

I think true carving on appropriate green and blue terrain is within reach of any recreational skier who wants to learn how.

Racers are for sure steering much of the time because they have to round the gates! They can't let the side cut of their skis be in charge. But WE can, if we really want to.

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

Actually Ursula was talking about blending edging and leg rotation - not carving and steering. In her approach - carving is at one end of the spectrum, pivot slips are at the other end, and everything in between is steering (blending these skills).

You are right, that what I was trying to say, just didn't say quite right. I meant edging and leg rotation which is not the same as carving and pivoting, but for some reason I thought they are. Well I was going to say I am not an instructor so it;s hard for me to express what I mean in proper terms.

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

@Skisailor what is the difference between leg rotation and steering? I know one needs leg rotation in the femur for steering? So leg rotation is the element of steering? Am I understanding that correctly? And carving is riding the sidecut of the ski, tipping them on edge to turn without any rotary movement of the ski whereas edging is using/tipping your edges and it's an element of carving? I guess I misled everyone with my earlier comment about carving and pivot slips, I am sorry.

 

[Skisailor]

You are right, that what I was trying to say, just didn't say quite right. I meant edging and leg rotation which is not the same as carving and pivoting, but for some reason I thought they are. Well I was going to say I am not an instructor so it;s hard for me to express what I mean in proper terms.

It's all good ! I was just clarifying because "steering" is different for CSIA than for PSIA.

 

[Skisailor]

@Skisailor what is the difference between leg rotation and steering? I know one needs leg rotation in the femur for steering? So leg rotation is the element of steering? Am I understanding that correctly? And carving is riding the sidecut of the ski, tipping them on edge to turn without any rotary movement of the ski whereas edging is using/tipping your edges and it's an element of carving? I guess I misled everyone with my earlier comment about carving and pivot slips, I am sorry.

Don't be sorry! You are completely right! Rotation (along with edging) is an element of steering. Carving is riding the edges with little to no rotation.

 

[volklgirl]

JMHO:

Steering is the use of outside forces to affect the natural arc of the ski. That includes forward and backward pressure, weight distribution, rotary skills, and edging skills.
Rotation is any twisting motion of the body, be it feet, legs, or torso.
Edging is adjusting the angle of the base/edge of the ski against the surface of the snow.

 

[contesstant]

Wow. I never thought about this. I skied my Volkl Charisma's last weekend and it was fun, but I really felt like the skis were skiing me. I never thought about the fact that I'm now 30 pounds lighter than I was when I got them. I'm going to pull out my Atomics this weekend and see how those feel.

Thanks, @contesstant - you gave me something to experiment with!

30 lbs. is a HUGE difference! It's funny how much this stuff affects how a ski feels.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I think you need to take a 2-3 hours one-on-one entirely dedicated to piste technique. You have been of fat skis for too long and probably switched to them a little early like many, you went ahead in your skiing but quite possibly left some technical gaps.

I actually did this last season - I had a full day private lesson specifically to work on groomers and bumps. Just now, though, my knee wouldn't let me get good value out of a private lesson.

I have a group lesson Saturday, and some of the ladies are specifically working their way toward learning to ski bumps, so I think short radius turns will be part of the program. In the meantime, this thread has given me a lot of ideas for "self-study" on Friday.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Since people seem to be interested in whether my ability to carve relates to my questions about short radius turns, I was able to snap this today. The tracks to the far right - you can most easily distinguish them in the middle (vertically) of the photo - are mine. (I couldn't decide which picture gave the best view of the tracks - sorry!)

 

[Skisailor]

Since people seem to be interested in whether my ability to carve relates to my questions about short radius turns, I was able to snap this today. The tracks to the far right - you can most easily distinguish them in the middle (vertically) of the photo - are mine. (I couldn't decide which picture gave the best view of the tracks - sorry!)

Which tracks are they?? Sorry! Can't tell which ones you mean. Can you put an arrow on them?

 

[vanhoskier]

@bounceswoosh ...get on the Vivas and snap another photo.

 

[bounceswoosh]

@bounceswoosh ...get on the Vivas and snap another photo.

OMG PLZ STOP.

Kthx.

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

It is unclear which tracks are yours, though. I agree with @Skisailor

 

[ski diva]

Bounceswoosh, I have the Vivas, too, and they are loads of fun. Give them a shot.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Which tracks are they?? Sorry! Can't tell which ones you mean. Can you put an arrow on them?

Apparently not (ugh, me and graphics manipulation ... a match made in hell!). This is what I've been able to do:

 

[tinymoose]

Apparently not (ugh, me and graphics manipulation ... a match made in hell!). This is what I've been able to do:

I'm still confused. Are those tracks below you? Or is that the field L to R we're supposed to be looking in?

 

[bounceswoosh]

Guys, you should know me well enough by now to know that every time you say "Really you should be on the Vivas," I'm going to dig my heels in more ... much like people telling me to take it easy getting back to skiing ...

So if you want me on the Vivas, just let me get there on my own timeline.